Katarina Ultimate 750 (+ 250% AP) (+ 375% bonus AD)
Kassadin's full kit 610 (+ 200% AP) (+ 2% of max mana)
And she's manaless. Can farm safety from range. And she has a much safer laning phase due to an escape and no resources to manage.
#BuffKassadin
ManSquid100 votesyea but she doesn't get the 15% magic damage resist like kass...
Oh wait. She gets 15% all resist any time it matters...
What was I arguing again?
DomainSpecific43 votesAnnie's ult deals more damage than Katarina and Kassadin's entire kits together.
MAGIC DAMAGE: 175 / 300 / 425 (+ 80% AP) Tibbers deals magical damage with his attacks, and is also surrounded by a flaming aura that deals magic damage every second to enemies within 200-range of himself. MAGIC DAMAGE PER SECOND: 20 / 30 / 40 (+ 20% AP)
Since Tibbers lasts 45 seconds, its aura alone deals 900/1350/1800 + 9.0 AP.
o9y9pcvBhd51 votesWith that reasoning sunfire cape is the strongest item in the game >.>
qetzel32 votesI think that is the point he was trying to make. Kat is NOT going to get all that damage off. No way.
Vistha Kai9 votesNeither will Annie.
qetzel29 votesI think that is the point. Just comparing the numbers on the tooltips doesn't tell you how strong the ability is.
DomainSpecific7 votesThis.
Abilities do not exist in a vacuum where only the damage part is important.
Kassadin has a blink every 3 seconds, and an AOE slow, while Kata has more damage and resets on kills (ie. more damage).
Mandang03 votesThat's the point - neither one gets their full damage off reliably, while Kassadin will.
Noam Braumsky2 votesKat's ult is what, 3 seconds max?
Durzaka5 votesFirst, kat's ult is only 3 seconds long, not 45 seconds. So the odds of her getting 75% of her ult off is very very high.
And even 75% of her ult is nearly as much as Kass's entire kit. And this isnt even factoring in the rest of kats kit.
Abyssphere4 votesFirst, kat's ult is only 3 seconds long, not 45 seconds. So the odds of her getting 75% of her ult off is very very high.
And even 75% of her ult is nearly as much as Kass's entire kit. And this isnt even factoring in the rest of kats kit.
You're missing the point. He's not legitimately comparing Kat's ult to Annie's ult and saying "well yeah Annie's is even stronger, nerf that". He's saying that you just can't judge stuff based on "this ability does this much damage". Of course it's far more realistic for Kat to fully channel her ult than it is for Annie to get off 45 full seconds of Annie damage, but it's also more realistic for Kass to get off all of his damage (including a second Riftwalk even) than it is for Kat to get off a full ult,
Do you realise that Kat isn't the only person with an ability that outscales Kass's entire kit? There's also Fiddlesticks, and Fiddle has more damage on his other abilities too. But it's obviously not a valid comparison because like Kat, Fiddle's damage is unreliable and all of these champions have a lot more to their kit than just the numbers on their damaging abilities.
Drukyul4 votesI agree, nerf Annie.
Kãtãrinã31 voteskassadins kit cant be interupted. katarinas ult can. kassadin has a 15% magic resist but kats 15% damage reduction is only 1.5 seconds. Man the QQing over her is real today. Boards are just targetting her now even though shes fine LOL. Kats laning is horrendous (shes melee for one) and she has 2 time Qs well and get farm or harass with q and miss farm. i think kats laning is pretty awful honestly
Anidan19 votesPut her up against Diana and suddenly her everything is awful. She can't do anything at all while Diana is nearby. Same with Galio as well. She'll probably lose that lane, and then barely be able to teamfight because that's ALSO when Galio is in his element.
And that, my friends, is how counterpicking works. This is a moba, please get used to countering their picks to some extent. Even LeBitch has some. (incidentally, Galio and Diana are also strong against her as well)
A Miss Fortune12 votes[{quoted}](name=Foxy FNAF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PiLTjN1B,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-05-23T06:20:17.575+0000)
kassadins kit cant be interupted. katarinas ult can. kassadin has a 15% magic resist but kats 15% damage reduction is only 1.5 seconds. Man the QQing over her is real today. Boards are just targetting her now even though shes fine LOL. Kats laning is horrendous (shes melee for one) and she has 2 time Qs well and get farm or harass with q and miss farm. i think kats laning is pretty awful honestly
Yeah, an easy mode freelo champ that anyone with half a brain can 1v5 pentakill with, is definitely "fine".
Katarina still needs to be gutted, I've gone against her as Cassiopeia who I do pretty well with, I bullied her in lane so hard to where she only had about 20 CS by the end of the laning phase and she went 0-4. After early game, she went around killing people mid - late game. Long story short it ended with Katarina going like 33-4 and oneshotting every single person including the tanks on our team.
You can't argue that Kat even has an "awful laning phase". Her Q>E>W combo poke is definitely enough to deal some real damage to people and due to the -15% incoming damage + Movement Speed she gets, it's difficult to actually trade back. Any Katarina player who has any idea what they're doing, can quite easily win most games. Sure people like Xerath and Cassiopeia and Azir can easily make it difficult on Katarina but it really doesn't matter since as soon as she picks up a couple of kills then you know the game is over.
Personally the first game I carried ever in League of Legends was a game with Katarina (mind you I was level 15 and I didn't know Death Lotus was a channeled ability and I immediately interrupted it every time I used it.) where I went 19-2.
Even as a newby with no idea how Katarina works or what to build on her besides a bunch of AP stuff, I was still able to be insanely fed and instantly kill their entire team, and no this wasn't just one lucky game this happened multiple times all while I thought Death Lotus was instant and not Channeled and thought her E didn't do damage.
Kãtãrinã6 votesCool story, then stop crying and play her in ranked non stop. I'd love to see you consistently do well in ranked with her if she is such a freelo champion.
A Miss Fortune8 votes[{quoted}](name=Foxy FNAF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PiLTjN1B,comment-id=000100020000,timestamp=2015-05-23T11:49:08.283+0000)
Cool story, then stop crying and play her in ranked non stop. I'd love to see you consistently do well in ranked with her if she is such a freelo champion.
Actually, there's a certain famous streamers for League of Legends (who I won't call out on this.) who mained Katarina up until Diamond, when he/she started playing champions like Cassiopeia, Yasuo, Azir, etc he/she was immediately demoted a day later.
Yeah, there's people who've used Katarina to carry themselves to Diamond despite them not being that great at the game. I'd love to see you provide legitimate points on her balance aside from the fact she is hard countered by CC. But let's be real, even Lissandra can't fight Kat that greatly.
Kãtãrinã4 votesRiot themselves think shes healthy. What more do i need? If they want to nerf her they will. Not gonna argue with it. I never said she sin't freeelo nor did i say she isn't "OP". I just said i'd love to see you try and climb with her to prove your own fact.
A Miss Fortune12 votes[{quoted}](name=Foxy FNAF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PiLTjN1B,comment-id=00010002000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-23T12:21:28.499+0000)
Riot themselves think shes healthy. What more do i need? If they want to nerf her they will. Not gonna argue with it. I never said she sin't freeelo nor did i say she isn't "OP". I just said i'd love to see you try and climb with her to prove your own fact.
Ok, first off Riot themselves think shes healthy. the same goes for 
and 
before it took them a few years to fix her at the end of Season 4/Beginning of Season 5.
Riot is known for being poor with balance, sure their champions are great and can be hilariously fun, but many champions in the game are either overpowered or underpowered statistically and on top of their extremely toxic kit that would want people to nerf them for just how annoying and hard it is to ever fight them while they are still a really low skillbased champion, which is pretty sad. I think Riot definitely has many balance issues and aren't anywhere at all near to a balanced game especially since they believe Riven and Leblanc are okay and have "counterplay". Yes, it is true that some champions can entirely counter Leblanc and Riven but they also invalidate enormous portions of the game.
A simple reason to prove Katarina being overpowered is
In short Katarina is an easy, overpowered Assassin-Mage that gives you so much in return for making so little risks, she has too much damage and she even has a fair amount of utility. She has no real crowd control in the game but since all of her abilities are AoE besides her E that can reset, it doesn't really matter. She's overpowered and her utility or damage needs to be gutted, having an ultimate that does 750 damage + 375% AD + 250% AP every .25 seconds while also applying grevious wounds AND BEING AOE, is not and will never be balanced, let alone the rest of her kit.
I'm done arguing as I think you've proven you're innapropriate to argue for Katarina's balance after you said "Riot themselves think shes healthy", which literally could mean "we need to buff Riven and make her easier."
dr lichdeath6 votesi agree some things should just be deleted off her kit and it barely would affect decent katas but burn the noobs like her high base ms, her grievious wounds, the -15% incoming dmg should get some sort of cd, the ward jump!( no srsly i want that gone no braindead ward jump spamming if ur somehow ever i danger, to minions k to allies k but not to friggin wards!!!!!), the q point and click( just make it a skillshot will barely make a difference to good kats)
Yer Not My Uncle5 votes"started one shotting everyone including the tanks". Lol all I play anymore mainly are assassins. A katarina who had "20 cs" at the end of laning phase and 0/4 is not roaming around and killing everyone. Sorry just doesn't happen. Katarina needs some form of damage item to output the damage or her kit is trash, the adc can kill her, as I have done to an underfed Kat as an ADC. Have we also forgotten that you can literally fart on Katarina during her ult and it is interrupted? Are you kids ever going to stop qqing about something you obviously have no clue about? Regardless I play against teams that literally build entirely around stopping me, and I still get fed, because there's a difference between "1v5 jump in pentakill gg" and someone who observes spells are used, the cooldowns, and when is the proper opportunity to actually go in.
A Miss Fortune2 votes[{quoted}](name=Yer Not My Uncle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PiLTjN1B,comment-id=000100020001,timestamp=2015-05-23T15:41:04.687+0000)
"started one shotting everyone including the tanks". Lol all I play anymore mainly are assassins. A katarina who had "20 cs" at the end of laning phase and 0/4 is not roaming around and killing everyone. Sorry just doesn't happen. Katarina needs some form of damage item to output the damage or her kit is trash, the adc can kill her, as I have done to an underfed Kat as an ADC. Have we also forgotten that you can literally fart on Katarina during her ult and it is interrupted? Are you kids ever going to stop qqing about something you obviously have no clue about? Regardless I play against teams that literally build entirely around stopping me, and I still get fed, because there's a difference between "1v5 jump in pentakill gg" and someone who observes spells are used, the cooldowns, and when is the proper opportunity to actually go in.
Sorry, I'll tell our 
tank jungle to not get instakilled next time by Katarina. Because that would be unbalanced.
Zair Umbras4 votesIf any tank jungle is getting instakilled 100-0 by a Kat, that Kat is either fed out her mind or your jungle tank has been AFK for the last 15 minutes.
ModWulf Helhammer26 votesSince when does having a ranged spell mean that the champ can farm from range? In what world can Kat actually farm with just a Q at early levels (when farm plays the biggest role)?
Double Rainbow5 votesThank you for pointing that. People seem to believe Katarina can farm with throwing daggers only. If she would do only that, she would get 1-2 minions from each wave.
Heckin Support4 votesSince when does having a ranged spell mean that the champ can farm from range? In what world can Kat actually farm with just a Q at early levels (when farm plays the biggest role)?
Thank you. Everyones kit looks overpowered when you just point out the strong things. Not to mention her ultimate is so easily stopped by just about any form of cc.
For Carthage3 votesI think the thread is less about how Kat's OP and more about how Kass is woefully weak.
Kat does stupid amounts of AoE while Kass can hardly kill a single target reliably. What Riot did was nerf all of his damage output long before ever considering that his ult was what made him stupidly strong, so way after they gutted his base kit, they finally said, "Let's gut the ult as well." When what they should have done was just go, "You know that 700 range blink he has? Yeah, that's a little too strong." So now, since they removed a lot of his mobility, they have to give him back some damage in his kit because I don't know if you've played Kass of late but just building a Banshee's on an ADC is enough to make sure he can't kill you.
Sugar Momma3 votesI think the issue is that every time has been anything other than weak, he's reached perma-ban status. I hate to say it, but he may just be a champ who needs to be a bit weak in order to be healthy for the game.
SmokinSickStyle9 votesWhat are you talking about?
Kassadin deals damage?
I thought they removed damage from Kassabin.
jDVL20eCYs7 votesLOL you never played kassadin don't you. first kassadin is katarinas biggest counter. if any pesky kata players (i used to be one till your stupid qq got her gutted), blind picks kata i just pick kassadin and make her rq or go top lane. kassadin absoutly destroy katarina in all parts on the game. from level 1 - 18. and kassadins lane is much stronger then kata btw. katarin just a stronger mid game champ then kassadin in teamfights
and your numbers are wrong first kasha q w e have 210% ap ratio plus 10 per auto and why you only factor in 1 kassadin r when he get can get 2 of in the duration of a kata ult. and bascily kassadins burst combo have much lower cd then katarinas ult. why not compared there basic abilities? and kassadisn url out damage katas in base damage if you let him get of all the urls before going oom
Vistha Kai7 voteskassadin absoutly destroy katarina in all parts on the game. and kassadins lane is much stronger then kata btw
Timewinder3 votesIt is though. Remember that in levels 1-5, Kassadin's Q shield can negate most of Katarina's poke and provide some ok harass. At level 6, Kat has no kill potential mid anymore (not even with jungle pressure). Kassadin's Q can stop Kat's ult, but if that's on cooldown he can just riftwalk away. Even if both Q and R are on cd, a 0/0/0 Kat cannot do enough damage to kill Kassadin. As Kassadin, keep track of her roams, as you roam much better than she does. Finally, in teamfights, it is your job to stop Kat's ult; all you have to do is press Q.
Of course Kassadin is not OP or even that good, but I'm just saying that the Kass vs. Kat matchup sucks for any Kat player.
jDVL20eCYs3 votesstfu she dose fucking wreck katarina..
ThePlasticSpork6 votesLol, do not buff Kassadin, pls.
This is a prime example of an apples and oranges comparison.
Penta Penguin5 votes750 (+ 250% AP) (+ 375% bonus AD)
Riot
are
you
fucking
stupid?
ARE YOU FUCKING STUPID?
WHY DOES SHE EVEN HAVE AD SCALING ON THIS AND WHY IS IT ALMOST 4x ????????????
Kãtãrinã13 votesit is BONUS AD for one and she doesnt even build AD. If she did buy AD it wouldn't even be close to the strength if it was AP. Also it would still do magic damage so. Also it has to be full channeled (So 10 blades per champion up to 30 blades.) Each blade has like a 25% AP and 37.5% AD scaling (since 25 times 10 is 250 and 37.5 times 10 is 375)
Tis a nice day11 votesWukong's got better AD scaling on his ult and it can't get interrupted either.
AFK Push2 votes[{quoted}](name=Tis a nice day,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PiLTjN1B,comment-id=00050001,timestamp=2015-05-23T08:27:45.242+0000)
Wukong's got better AD scaling on his ult and it can't get interrupted either.
You can still cc a wukong while in ult, sure he will keep spinning but he wont be hitting you with it if knockbacked etc
Tis a nice day3 votesSame with Kat. Except she stops spinning.
cookiesforu5 votesAs a very long time Kassadin player (season2) and having lived and played through his ups and downs I can tell you that Kassadin is PERFECT where he is. The over nerfed him and then fixed it. He is now about playing to his spikes and building properly. Getting to level 16 with rod of ages/athenes and maxing your cooldowns is a 1.2 second ulti with only 14 second resets on your stacks. 20 seconds was RIDICULOUS. Back to 14 with a 1.2 second cooldown (let me repeat A FUCKING 1.2 SECOND FLASH COOLDOWN) with the range sitting at 550 (remember when they nerfed it to 450???? HOLY SHIT THAT SUCKED) is absolutely perfect.
Katarina is all about outplaying her while she tries to outplay you. Kassadin is played in the LPL/LCK and Katarina is not. There is a reason that the best players in the world still choose to play kassadin. They know how to build him and they know how to play to his spikes. Do you????
Focus Teemo4 votesSome of the nerfs he got this season DID get reverted, and before that he was uncommon but very strong in the right hands. Currently he's already making his way back into the meta. Buffing him would just result in him getting spammed in pro play, then spammed in SoloQ, then normals... then he would get gutted... AGAIN.
https://youtu.be/NRyQHzbCJYM?t=11403
Faker picked Kass against EDG in the fourth match at MSI, did well, and they won.... only to LOSE the next one on Leblanc.
RavenKouhai4 votesso much qq about annie and katarina
please, let's focus on the real problem here.
arc952 votes: one hits full tank six stack 
... what im not op
Sweetie Brella3 votesNormally I would agree with you, but Riot has been clear about this.
Kassadin is "defined" by his "mobility".
Besides, Kassadin is so loaded with CC. He can stop channels! and he can slow!
lDontLiftIcarry2 votesdid you know that kats ult takes time to use?
retard.
all of kass's abilites can be cast before kats ult is even half complete. Retard. L2 post all of the information not half. Retard.
RavenKouhai8 votesdid you know that kats ult takes time to use?
retard.
all of kass's abilites can be cast before kats ult is even half complete. Retard. L2 post all of the information not half. Retard.
calling the op a retard really strengthens your point, thank you
lDontLiftIcarry2 voteshe's slow. Retard means slow. Proper usage of the term, since a faster minded person would pick up ways of dealing with kat and know any of her counters.
Anyway.. I'm not arguing with slow players, it's a waste of my time. Peace.
DirkTarTar1 votesJust to put this out there... Katarina is a noob stomper. The end.
Anyways. To the original point of this thread-> Kassadin
Kassadin has an inherent problem of having a kit that is too good. It has always been that way, to the detriment of the game. He will honestly simply need a full rework, not like the sissy ones he has received lately, at some point, but that is far from happening because of the bigger issues of making other champions playable again.
EDIT By full rework... I mean a Sion level rework
ABlueQuaker2 votesKatarina has the same win rate +/- 2% in all divisions Bronze ---> Diamond.
Please tell me again how she is a 'Noob stomper'.
Bronze: http://www.lolking.net/champions/katarina®ion=all&map=sr&queue=1x1&league=bronze#statistics
Diamond: http://www.lolking.net/champions/katarina®ion=all&map=sr&queue=1x1&league=diamond#statistics
DirkTarTar's Profile (Unranked): http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/25967592#profile
