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Renekton's shield-breaking W is basically a giant "fuck you"

BeatzBoyFTW··109 votes·23,850 views

There's literally no logic in giving him this crap at all. Renekton himself already does severely impressive damage by himself, having the ability to land a strong 2-3 seconds stun which gives him enough time to land his full combo before dashing out, especially when coupled with either PTA or Conqueror. Either playing a long-ranged top laner or someone with a shield is just one of the best way to counteract against this, and Riot chose to kick out one of them.

This is just utter ridiculous. Top lane is already a giant shit-hole, and your solution is this...?

111 Comments

Troll for Trump39 votes

Why does renekton even need buffs? He's already top tier

ContDeCaterinca19 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ðownright Darius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T8fXzkXh,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-03T05:42:43.635+0000)

Why does renekton even need buffs? He's already top tier

I think it was more intended at Rene countering Kench. But they are massively nerfing his shield, while buffing the regen anyway.

Also against Riven.

Renekton is very strong anyway, the buff has to be targetted IMO.

Zemasu9 votes

Just nerf riven shield so? if something is broken doesn't mean you have to buff another to a broken level to counter it. They still can nerf riven shield without making their preferred chinese player cry

Ragnaveil7 votes

they wont nerf it. The most they'll do is give Riven buffs in the form of "nerfs".

ZeroAgainst8 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ðownright Darius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T8fXzkXh,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-03T05:42:43.635+0000)

Why does renekton even need buffs? He's already top tier

hes the champ riot considers that balances top lane if renk isnt early game god in riots book they think something's wrong and the fix is buff renk or not to buff renk :^)

pickcollins1 votes

They need to find a new champ to consider balancing top lane around then

ZeroAgainst1 votes

{quoted}

They need to find a new champ to consider balancing top lane around then

never will happen the only other top laner that gets close to that treatment is darius if my memory recalls right.

pickcollins1 votes

So lemme see if I fully grasp this.

The elo win machine and the migraine top lane bully are what they consider top lane balanced around?

Bruh I'd rather they bring back true stealth than buff Renekton

Blue Moon Wolf12 votes

I feel we really need to keep reminding Riot that they removed a similar mechanic from Irelia BECAUSE even they thought it was too strong, cause apparently they completely forgot about doing that. Worse part is with Irelia at least it was only a damage boost against shields, this delete shields in a single W is ridiculous by comparison .-.

Chembaron Yamada44 votes

They didn't remove it from her because they thought it was too strong. But because Irelia was absolutely overloaded with effects and they had to cut stuff away from her kit.

They also removed: Magic damage reduction from her W, disarm from her R Irelia just had way too much stuff in her kit and definitely didn't need so many features to succeed.

Blue Moon Wolf2 votes

They specifically said that the mechanic was too strong... and that doesn't go into the fact they still ended up putting a stronger version on a champ who REALLY didn't need it either with his 2 dashes, manaless kit, healing, AOE attacks and stun.... the instant shield burst going on his stun ability no less.

Chembaron Yamada7 votes

Irelia's got a lot going on across her abilities, which makes her effective in an extremely broad range of team comps and scenarios. We're removing a few mechanics that weren't essential to her blade dancer combat style as well as reining in Bladesurge's late game insta-waveclear.

This is directly copied from the patch notes of patch 9.2, which was the one they removed her extra damage to shields. If you have any other source to prove that they specifically stated that the mechanic was too strong, then please share it here.

Intocabille1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chembaron Yamada,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T8fXzkXh,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-07-03T08:06:49.828+0000)

They didn't remove it from her because they thought it was too strong. But because Irelia was absolutely overloaded with effects and they had to cut stuff away from her kit.

They also removed: Magic damage reduction from her W, disarm from her R Irelia just had way too much stuff in her kit and definitely didn't need so many features to succeed.

Pfffff since when they care about overloading champions?

The Bad Touch5 votes

{quoted}

There's literally no logic in giving him this crap at all. Renekton himself already does severely impressive damage by himself, having the ability to land a strong 2-3 seconds stun which gives him enough time to land his full combo before dashing out, especially when coupled with either PTA or Conqueror. Either playing a long-ranged top laner or someone with a shield is just one of the best way to counteract against this, and Riot chose to kick out one of them.

This is just utter ridiculous. Top lane is already a giant shit-hole, and your solution is this...?

Well if they'd never reworked Urgot/Sion this wouldn't have been an issue.

BeatzBoyFTW22 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Bad Touch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T8fXzkXh,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-03T04:46:09.083+0000)

Well if they'd never reworked Urgot/Sion this wouldn't have been an issue.

Both of their states at pre-work aren't any better. They needed this update, but maybe not up to the point where Urgot needs an infinite W or Sion having even larger HP gains.

The Bad Touch5 votes

{quoted}

Both of their states at pre-work aren't any better. They needed this update, but maybe not up to the point where Urgot needs an infinite W or Sion having even larger HP gains.

Urgot wasn't even tanky before, was just a ranged poke champ. Sion wasn't a tank at all. He was either a fighter, or an AP burst mage.

Those reworks + the Poppy rework started the downfall of toplane though. Suddenly you had to deal with these tank AF champs that still did some pretty insane damage. Thus conquerer.... and it all began.

ChaosReyn8 votes

I miss AP Sion...

But I'd have to disagree. I think the worst rework was less them and poppy, and more the juggernaut changes that led to the tank meta, personally. Ever since the tank meta was a thing, now there's this lasting impression of how bad that season was to play that every time someone doesn't lose a minimum of 95% of their hp from an assassin or burst mage, it's "omfg tank meta REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!"

Because of that sort of feedback every single time, they went instead to a full damage meta. People are pissed about that too, obviously, since half of us cant play the game past a certain point, where the fed snowball champion is one-tapping all 5 of us on sight. So they're trying to add back more tankiness, but also add in ways to just outright deny some of the factors that make people tanky.

I imagine them putting this on Renekton as a sort of test. I don't think he needs it. I don't think that they really believe he needs it. I think it's one of those invisible "lets try and make this mechanic work, so we can find ways to incorporate it into something useful" kind of things.

But I could be wrong.

Ralanr2 votes

The juggernaut rework was honestly handled really poorly. The only champion that really came out for the better was Darius with a raised skill cap.

3TWarrior2 votes

actually, if you knew how to play him, urgot was MASSIVELY tanky and had one of if not the best use of Trinity Force. The new urgot is completely awesome though, I mean, they actually kept his theme and made it more accomodating to modern standards

most others just get deleted

The Bad Touch2 votes

{quoted}

actually, if you knew how to play him, urgot was MASSIVELY tanky and had one of if not the best use of Trinity Force. The new urgot is completely awesome though, I mean, they actually kept his theme and made it more accomodating to modern standards

most others just get deleted

Don't ever think I saw that. Was usually just Frozen Heat and Manamune + some AD items. Been a while though.

I don't care for the new Urgot. At all. He just abuses Conq/deaths dance and sorta walks at people with his W up. He's barely a ranged champ at all anymore.

3TWarrior2 votes

hmm, I tend to remember item 3022 and item 3078 , but his build paths were flexible

another tidbit that makes it hard to remember: he was EXTREMELY rare to see, on the level of mordekaiser, poppy and the other crazy low champions XD

perhaps that was just an offense build, but the basic idea goes he slows you and then is always in auto attack range to keep up his assault

I don't care too much for the new Urgot's gameplay though it does look fun, but it made me happy that his theme was kept the same

ProfDrDeath5 votes

If Renekton is to get a shield breaker, it should go on his Empowered E and not Empowered W. Empowered W is for damage, while Empowered E already has another way of stripping defenses. Putting the shield breaker there would make Empowered E better at its purpose of stripping defenses.

Skeletons Grave1 votes

I agree with the empowered E thought, but empowered W isnt used for damage. Its empowered affect does barely more damage then q and less then E plus w is maxed last. The only reason to ever pick empowered w right now is if u want a 1.5 sec stun instead of a .75 sec stun. The extra on hit affect is normally pointless. So really the w does need something to make its empowered affect justifiable to use instead of just being a noob trap mistake since emp q or e is better in 95% of situations.

HommeGoujon3 votes

Empowered E better than W? Have to disagree there. Your empowered W is literally what enables you to fully combo the opponent. And it has a pretty decent AD scaling (+ 225% AD). It's not pointless at all. It's also an extra stack towards Conqueror or a proc'd PTA. You're making it sound like a useless ability but I think it's a core one.

Kyovulpes1 votes

{quoted}

If Renekton is to get a shield breaker, it should go on his Empowered E and not Empowered W. Empowered W is for damage, while Empowered E already has another way of stripping defenses. Putting the shield breaker there would make Empowered E better at its purpose of stripping defenses.

That's such a good Idea it hurts esp cause it would also give players a chance to counter by forcing some trades or something at the right time instead of "oh look he's near empowered state gotta give lane up even more now" like I've heard of lane bullies but gotdamn dude if that change goes through he's gonna be so toxic to deal with.

Critmaster Garen5 votes

i would be bothered by it, if it didnt mean Karma TahmKench dont become 100% safe first picks in top lane anymore.

Ragnaveil3 votes

same, except with Riven getting free passes on nerfs.

Hayaishi25 votes

Playing favorites again. The fact that they even consider Renekton should be buffed is ridiculous.

HommeGoujon4 votes

having the ability to land a strong 2-3 seconds stun

Are you for real? lool It's 0.75 sec and 1.5 sec when empowered. Also, it roots Renekton for a short duration (animation). You can still use actives like tiamat during W and you can cancel part of the animation with another one. Either way, it's not 2 secs (where is your 3 secs even coming from)? Just to be clear, I don't want this shield-breaking stuff but just stop lying to try and make him look more OP than he is.

BeatzBoyFTW2 votes

{quoted}

Are you for real? lool It's 0.75 sec and 1.5 sec when empowered. Also, it roots Renekton for a short duration (animation). You can still use actives like tiamat during W and you can cancel part of the animation with another one. Either way, it's not 2 secs (where is your 3 secs even coming from)? Just to be clear, I don't want this shield-breaking stuff but just stop lying to try and make him look more OP than he is.

Mb, can't remember the proper duration of the stun, but you can't deny that the empowered stun was super long enough for Renekton to unleash a full combo (Tiamat's extra) before dashing out, right before the stun duration was over.

Sire Hippington4 votes

Am i the only one that doesn't think shieldbreak on Renekton is an issue, but rather that the idea of shieldbreak in general is an issue? it's just the definition of a hardcounter. We still struggle balanceing GW and Sustain based champs, and that's just a soft counter. If we start adding shieldbreak, we end with shield heavy champs only beeing playable as lastpicks or after banning all shieldbreak champs. Just imagin playing Sion vs the changed blitzkrank ult. He just removes your main tank tool by pressing a button...

Sure, that shit is even worse top as that lane is all about counters, so adding more hardcounter scenarious just adds fule to the fire, but i think it just is overall a very concerning direction to take for riot, turning league into some form of rock paper scissors.

JetstreamXT1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sire Hippington,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T8fXzkXh,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2019-07-03T19:46:08.743+0000)

Am i the only one that doesn't think shieldbreak on Renekton is an issue, but rather that the idea of shieldbreak in general is an issue? it's just the definition of a hardcounter. We still struggle balanceing GW and Sustain based champs, and that's just a soft counter. If we start adding shieldbreak, we end with shield heavy champs only beeing playable as lastpicks or after banning all shieldbreak champs. Just imagin playing Sion vs the changed blitzkrank ult. He just removes your main tank tool by pressing a button...

Sure, that shit is even worse top as that lane is all about counters, so adding more hardcounter scenarious just adds fule to the fire, but i think it just is overall a very concerning direction to take for riot, turning league into some form of rock paper scissors.

I agree, to a point. If GW and sustain is already tough to balance, a shield-DESTROYING mechanic could be a balance disaster.

However, shielding fighters, and especially Mordekaiser ( in lower levels ) and Tahm Kench (at higher levels) in particular, seem to be a tad strong to me based on win rate and popularity. This is what Riot has come up with as an answer to this problem as they perceive it.

In conclusion, I feel that shields are pretty strong right now, but complete shield destruction would bring it too much in the opposite direction. I would say that maybe having abilities that deal extra damage to shields, maybe even %shield damage (I.e, 50% shield damage would deal 150 damage to a 300 damage shield, but 200 damage to a 400 damage shield, before other damage is calculated) would be more appropriate

Sire Hippington3 votes

Or maybe we simply nerf the two shield useing champs that seem a bit to strong? Nahh, that wouldn't result in counterpicks and or powercreep...

njrk974 votes

Honestly im just tired of this, im tired of feeling like im being held in contempt because i play Top lane, im tired of feeling like i have to put 40% more effort in as some champs for the sole reason that i chose to play them over better champs, im tired of seeing that defeat screen and questioning not how i should improve, but WHY should i improve when i can cruise with these other champions. Im tired of seeing patch after patch of misguided BS being filed topside, im tired of having to have a god damm ban cheat sheet just to understand what 20 champions i technically need to ban to even play topside.

I miss League of Legends, the real League with some frustrating champs and issue but overall a underlying template of skill and fun. Not this Homunculus monster that slithered into its skin a season or so ago and now mocks us as we keep coming back, wishing for some fragment, some remnant of the game we loved to come back to us.

Sure Season 4,5,3,2 whatever had its issue, but it sure as hell pretended like it had every players best interests while playing the game. Not this crap, not this situation where it feels like i have personally offended Riot for not playing their designated picks of the season and are being kneecapped because of it.

And yet i came back after quitting once before, so i guess the egg is on our faces aswell, they know our Stockholm syndrome asses are not going to leave anytime soon, they got us hooked, no matter how much we are abused.

Tin Obliterates3 votes

Everything about Renekton is already one giant 'fuck you'.

Crescent Dusk2 votes

How about we nerf shields instead of buffing already oppressive top laners like Renekton and Kled.

Lifesteal and shields are busted with the adc+supp combos currently, forcing assassins to have 1-2 shot levels of damage since they die to 3 ADC autos if they don't kill the ADC before the supp shields them or CC's the assassin.

But that doesn't mean you gotta give a few bruisers like renekton and kled champion specific tools to deal with these.

Just nerf the damn shields and lifesteal.

Remove AD from GA. That's really what breaks ADC, the fact they can get a damage item that also gives them armor and a resurrection after all the effort is invested getting through a frontline, myriad CC and support shields and heals just to kill a single ADC that didn't actually die.

The Kombinator1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T8fXzkXh,comment-id=001b,timestamp=2019-07-04T00:39:06.734+0000)

How about we nerf shields instead of buffing already oppressive top laners like Renekton and Kled.

Lifesteal and shields are busted with the adc+supp combos currently, forcing assassins to have 1-2 shot levels of damage since they die to 3 ADC autos if they don't kill the ADC before the supp shields them or CC's the assassin.

But that doesn't mean you gotta give a few bruisers like renekton and kled champion specific tools to deal with these.

Just nerf the damn shields and lifesteal.

Remove AD from GA. That's really what breaks ADC, the fact they can get a damage item that also gives them armor and a resurrection after all the effort is invested getting through a frontline, myriad CC and support shields and heals just to kill a single ADC that didn't actually die.

I wouldn't mind removing, or nerfing all shields, and heals on non-support champions. Or more like these self shielders/healers. Especially in current mechanics health bar is simply the second best way of defense. The best way is becoming untargetable/invulnerable.

It's the support's job to keep the ADC alive. If you don't like it, then you might oneshot the support first. Or just target someone else. Or just wait until Support wastes the CDs for someone else. Or just escape when support CDs out. Most assassins have lower CD on their combos, than supports. At least the truly protective ones such as Soraka, Lulu, and Janna. By nerfing them you might remove them entirely. You might remove the support as role entirely, and have a damage helping botlane. After all with current mechanics there is no point having a pure tank champion anyway.

Crescent Dusk1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Kombinator,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T8fXzkXh,comment-id=001b0001,timestamp=2019-07-05T10:08:53.851+0000)

I wouldn't mind removing, or nerfing all shields, and heals on non-support champions. Or more like these self shielders/healers. Especially in current mechanics health bar is simply the second best way of defense. The best way is becoming untargetable/invulnerable.

It's the support's job to keep the ADC alive. If you don't like it, then you might oneshot the support first. Or just target someone else. Or just wait until Support wastes the CDs for someone else. Or just escape when support CDs out. Most assassins have lower CD on their combos, than supports. At least the truly protective ones such as Soraka, Lulu, and Janna. By nerfing them you might remove them entirely. You might remove the support as role entirely, and have a damage helping botlane. After all with current mechanics there is no point having a pure tank champion anyway.

Except for most assassins outside Zed and Akali there is not going out once you've committed in, and what ends up happening when you go for either the support or ADC in reality is that IF you are lucky, you are looking at a 1 for 1. You go in, and die to a Sejuani ult or Jax stun or the Syndra/Oriana wombo combo.

Assassins are absolutely dogshit at constesting objectives and sieging, and with the introduction of bruisers and duelists like Jax/Fiora/trynda, no assassin but Zed can even take the role of split pusher to compensate for their deficits in teamfighting.

The Kombinator2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T8fXzkXh,comment-id=001b00010000,timestamp=2019-07-06T00:20:41.499+0000)

Except for most assassins outside Zed and Akali there is not going out once you've committed in, and what ends up happening when you go for either the support or ADC in reality is that IF you are lucky, you are looking at a 1 for 1. You go in, and die to a Sejuani ult or Jax stun or the Syndra/Oriana wombo combo.

Assassins are absolutely dogshit at constesting objectives and sieging, and with the introduction of bruisers and duelists like Jax/Fiora/trynda, no assassin but Zed can even take the role of split pusher to compensate for their deficits in teamfighting.

Evelynn Can escape fairly good with ult. Ekko Ulti again. Beside escape he also gets lots of health. Fizz With Zhonya untargetable 3 times. Without it he still got untargetable for a short time+some escape with it. Kassadin Free flash like every 3 seconds.... If got Zhonya then literary untargetable during the entire CD. Katarina If target dies, then long range jump to ally, or just kill next target. Khazix Invisibility. Gives enough time to escape, or team to catch up. Leblanc Back where she came from. Or start moving opposite direction, and unless team is seriously cooperative they won't track both possibility. MasterYi No good escape, but untargetable like every 3 second, and can become tank for a time with heal. Nidalee No good escape, or defense here. But she can try playing a long range poker instead. She is probably the weakest from these. Nocturne No good escape either, but tankier, than most. Rengar Ult can be used for escape, if not used for engage. Shaco ... Zed Back where he came from+free flash. Talon If ult not used for engage, then easy escape. Also if there are walls nearby, then easy escape.

11 from 14 got escape. Also the trick is not going in first, and not going in 1v many. If you go 1v5, and die without killing, then it's your fault.

Crescent Dusk1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Kombinator,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T8fXzkXh,comment-id=001b000100000000,timestamp=2019-07-06T10:58:29.953+0000)

Evelynn Can escape fairly good with ult. Ekko Ulti again. Beside escape he also gets lots of health. Fizz With Zhonya untargetable 3 times. Without it he still got untargetable for a short time+some escape with it. Kassadin Free flash like every 3 seconds.... If got Zhonya then literary untargetable during the entire CD. Katarina If target dies, then long range jump to ally, or just kill next target. Khazix Invisibility. Gives enough time to escape, or team to catch up. Leblanc Back where she came from. Or start moving opposite direction, and unless team is seriously cooperative they won't track both possibility. MasterYi No good escape, but untargetable like every 3 second, and can become tank for a time with heal. Nidalee No good escape, or defense here. But she can try playing a long range poker instead. She is probably the weakest from these. Nocturne No good escape either, but tankier, than most. Rengar Ult can be used for escape, if not used for engage. Shaco ... Zed Back where he came from+free flash. Talon If ult not used for engage, then easy escape. Also if there are walls nearby, then easy escape.

11 from 14 got escape. Also the trick is not going in first, and not going in 1v many. If you go 1v5, and die without killing, then it's your fault.

Untargetable means jackshit when all it takes is one CC to blow you up and all of them besides Ekko (who doesn't have the burst of most assassins) rely on ult to get a kill, which is negated by later usage of PD+GA and support shields. You also say free flash every 3 seconds, well that is late game and it currently takes less than 3 seconds for an assassin to be blown up in late game. A draven or jinx late game with just 2 autos is stripping off 2/3 of your health as an assassin.

You laughably say that these assassins have an escape if they don't use their engage. Well, guess what, Rengar ain't killing shit without his ult and Talon isn't proccing passive without his ult either since only vegetables get hit by his return rake with all its delay and the fact Talon's single engagement tool is a short range 575 linear leap that means it's easily foiled by linear CC since opponents will always know where he lands.

Doesn't matter Fizz is untargetable with his pole, because he fucking needs to use it to land his damage rotation, by the time its cooldown is back he's dead in a teamfight.

There is a reason LCS doesn't use assassins besides Akali. Assassins suck ass the moment you have a single tank jungler or support in the team comp since you just get immediately peeled in teamfights and both bruisers and ADC's outscale you. This makes an assassin pointless because a late game Jax or Irelia or Renekton or Aatrox assassinates a backline way better while being far more survivable than any assassin.

The Kombinator1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T8fXzkXh,comment-id=001b0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-06T15:27:22.490+0000)

Untargetable means jackshit when all it takes is one CC to blow you up and all of them besides Ekko (who doesn't have the burst of most assassins) rely on ult to get a kill, which is negated by later usage of PD+GA and support shields. You also say free flash every 3 seconds, well that is late game and it currently takes less than 3 seconds for an assassin to be blown up in late game. A draven or jinx late game with just 2 autos is stripping off 2/3 of your health as an assassin.

You laughably say that these assassins have an escape if they don't use their engage. Well, guess what, Rengar ain't killing shit without his ult and Talon isn't proccing passive without his ult either since only vegetables get hit by his return rake with all its delay and the fact Talon's single engagement tool is a short range 575 linear leap that means it's easily foiled by linear CC since opponents will always know where he lands.

Doesn't matter Fizz is untargetable with his pole, because he fucking needs to use it to land his damage rotation, by the time its cooldown is back he's dead in a teamfight.

There is a reason LCS doesn't use assassins besides Akali. Assassins suck ass the moment you have a single tank jungler or support in the team comp since you just get immediately peeled in teamfights and both bruisers and ADC's outscale you. This makes an assassin pointless because a late game Jax or Irelia or Renekton or Aatrox assassinates a backline way better while being far more survivable than any assassin.

Untargetable gives your team time to move in and help. If they wait for you to be targetable while teammates slaughter them, then they gona end up quite badly. As told you are NOT MEANT to go into 1v5, and kill someone, then escape. Though some assassin can do exactly that, if enemy got 0 defense, and no protective support.

As for engaging with Ult. The only one who got problem with that is Rengar. Talon can still escape without it, if there is a wall nearby. Chose your fight man. Don't just rush in alone against the group in the middle of mid. Eve uses ult as final attack, or escape. Ekko has very difficult time trying to engage ulti. Also doesn't make sense, because that would waste the healing part. The others have very low ult. CD, multiple charges, or ult reset on kill.

Though playing like you imagine is not impossible with some of them. Zed, Leblanc, Eve can do such. Go in, kill target, or make sure it uses emergency stuff in less, than a second, then escape. Repeat the moment ult ready, and enemy won't have emergency stuff that time.

Pxerkza2 votes

cut his damage combo by 30% and i am completely fine with them giving him an ignore shield ability but being able to 1 combo people at 6 while chunking for 50-60% at 2-6 isn't interactive gameplay

there are plenty of videos of renekton otps that straight 1v3 1v4 at 1 item reducing counter play options isn't the best way to deal with him

the 1 thing this does is actually hurt him in the kench matchup instead of helping him why you would ask? renekton uses his stun as the opener except in fiora matchups but if renekton doesn't stun kench he will be obliterated because kench does more dmg if he gets to stack up his passive before he gets stunned

ie renektons combo was the default one into kench and slowly get him to a point where he can 1 shot kench now kench will start killing renekton because renekton will be trying to use it when kench shields and renektons trades are really awful without his stun

Meteora7071 votes

maybe renekton will beat karma now, he won't, but hopefully he will do alright.

Romans VI XXIII1 votes

Try tris Tristana vs Karma. EZ win.

preternatural1 votes

there are so many shields around that i frankly welcome shield breakers. now give Irelia her shield breaking back thanks.

BeatzBoyFTW2 votes

{quoted}

there are so many shields around that i frankly welcome shield breakers. now give Irelia her shield breaking back thanks.

Sure

Then nerf down her Attack Speed & the Bonus Damage she gets from fully stacked passive

AppozClone1 votes

I read the majority of this thread, got the jist of it and have this to say. What insanity is it that you are complaining about people being able to break a shield instantly with some sort of ability. It honestly needs to be something on an item made for Bruisers and Assassins really, that or they need to change Grevious Wounds into Mutilator, you know the old Aatrox Passive where he would depower shields and heals on the target.

I mean seriously, Assassins having trouble WHEN AHEAD instant killing their target is ridiculous because "Shit the Lux hit her Q now shes a tank thanks Aftershock", you can insert any squishy mage with a hard CC thats easy enough to hit looking at Lissandra and there are probably more. It gets worse when Oh hey guess I cant one shot the squishy ADC because they bought Phantom Dancer which gives them a 240-600 health shield for 2 seconds, I just got them below 1/3 hp and oh they got 1/3 of it back aaaaand all of my cooldowns are gone, "Guess ill just die now", popular supports give shields, many items to give shields.

Shield Breaking abilities need to be more common so as to give Counterplay for champions whose identity it is to instant kill the target or against just make Grevious Wounds into Mutilator that way it actually has a real use.

Heos003 votes

If you start giving shield breakers to assassins (and other champions) they will be overpowered, not all the games lasts until adcs and supports are able to do something and not every adc buys PH since it's trash compared to RFC and not everyone go shield supports other than Lux (that's overpowered because of aftershock), theres no reason to give shield breakers to any champion since the state of the game is a fast damage meta. Even with shields a zed full build vs an ezreal full build (with lux as a support and ezreal tabis-gauntlet) is able to being oneshooted by Zed.

Crescent Dusk2 votes

{quoted}

If you start giving shield breakers to assassins (and other champions) they will be overpowered, not all the games lasts until adcs and supports are able to do something and not every adc buys PH since it's trash compared to RFC and not everyone go shield supports other than Lux (that's overpowered because of aftershock), theres no reason to give shield breakers to any champion since the state of the game is a fast damage meta. Even with shields a zed full build vs an ezreal full build (with lux as a support and ezreal tabis-gauntlet) is able to being oneshooted by Zed.

That's an issue with Zed being a broken assassin with the highest scaling damage of all assassins besides Akali.

This is easily fixed by changing Lord Dominik's Regard's to only work for ranged champions, as it should be that ADC's are tank counters, and melee besides immobile bruisers should be countered by armor.

Since Zed core builds BC and LDR currently, he has way too much armor pen that he shouldn't have. It would also help if they revamped his ult so it does a fixed % HP damage total when triggered by 3 strikes instead of multiplying all damage he does, which is what breaks his scaling late game.

Heos001 votes

But Riot balance team and design team refuses to do only "X" class item, because that could kill (the already killed) diversity... lmfao

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