Lucian and Corki dominated the ADC scene this weekend and continue to show that the competitive ADC selection is very limited. I just want to know what everyone thinks should be done about ADCs in general. Buffs? Nerfs? Item changes?
Hayaishi2 votesIt's as stale as it always been
MrHarshmallow2 votesNO!! pls dont ask rito to nerf the adc role..
I tried all the roles in s4 and finally got set with jg and adc
Now with jg being changed, adc is my best bet at climbing to gold + I practiced a lot of adc and patiently waited for s5. Dont ask rito to change this too :(
67chrome1 votesCorki has pretty much always been a dominant ADC.
There was a short period of time in season 3 when he fell out of favor (a lot out of favor actually), but then Tri-Force got re-worked and he wound up being the #2 ADC for most of the competitive world's scene.
Bigger picture problem with Corki and Lucian seems to be the early-game push of champions in competitive play in general. More often than not the pros seem to favor lane-dominance or a strong mid-game, favoring momentum plays capable of swinging a game earlier rather than later. If you close out a game at 33 minutes due to setting a 40 minute team back 10 minutes and crushing them - they never get the opportunity to turn around 50 minutes in and swing it back. Game's already over, which is why champions like Poppy and Tryndamere are hardly ever played competitively. Ezreal was a major mid-game marksman as well, having similar burst and mobility to Lucian and Corki.
To complicate things further - late-game marksman like Tristana and Kog'Maw only really saw the light when the player base at large felt overwhelmed by their power, then those champions proceeded to get exploited for their late-game reliance by SSWhite in a string of near-perfect sub-30 minute wins.
So - seems like kind of a mess.
Big issues item-wise is that defensive items like Randuin's Omen, Thornmail, Warden's Mail, Doran's Shield, Ninja Tabi, Frozen Heart, and more have near useless passives vs. ability-reliant, caster-heavy marksman like Corki and Lucian.
Other big item issue is that Infinity Edge and critical strikes late-game get a little out of hand. Not unbalanced in the grand scheme of early/late, but powerful enough to tip champions like Tryndamere and, with his current nerfs, Yasou, so far down early-game they become a major risk and struggle to even bring into late.
disregardable1 votesI genuinely think Lucian can be fixed just by revamping his passive. It's where 90% of his threat is, because, assuming you're equally fed, he can out-trade you 100% of the time. The same thing applies to Corki's AOE. His other skillshots are high damage, sure, but they're less of a detriment to trying to trade.
I also think Vayne and Draven need their damage passives removed, and Kalista's damage passive needs nerfed. Why should they get free extra stats?
I also think tht unless you intend to remove crit chance entirely, there's not much changing the itemization will do to fix them.
KFDizzle2 votesWhat damage passive? Draven's passive gives you stacking adoration and Vayne's passive gives you +30/+90ms depending on if you're moving toward an enemy in the radius.
huh?
disregardable1 votesI was indeed wrong about Draven's being a passive, but it definitely feels like one. The point should be to catch the Axe to proc his adoration passive, not the huge damage increase, but that's so useless.
Draven's Q:
Draven starts spinning his axe, making his next attack within 5.8 seconds deal bonus physical damage equal to a percentage of his AD
Vayne's W:
PASSIVE: The third consecutive attack or spell against the same target will deal true damage equal to a flat amount plus a percentage of the target's maximum health.
Kalista's W:
PASSIVE: If Kalista and her Oathsworn ally attack the same target within 1.5 seconds of each other, the target will take additional magic damage equal to a percentage of their maximum health.
Sightless662 votesSo, if I get this right, you want Vayne's main source of damage and Draven's only source of damage completely removed? I think I must be misunderstanding. Can you write out exactly what your proposals are for each champion?
Also, you are aware that Kalista is getting buffed next patch, right?
disregardable1 votesNo, because I don't play any of those champions enough to give them fair justice. They need real damage/utility abilities LIKE EVERY OTHER ADC that make up for having stats that are EXACTLY LIKE EVERY OTHER ADC, rather than unfairly high.
Sightless662 votesI have no idea what you actually want. As far as I can tell, you seem to dislike Draven Q and Vayne W because they both affect autoattacks, and you think that means that they should be reworked. Is that roughly correct? I also have no idea what "having stats that are EXACTLY LIKE EVERY OTHER ADC" has to do with the discussion.
disregardable1 votesHow many times do I need to say the exact same thing? Giving champions free damage boosts in their kits is unfair. They need replaced with real gameplay. Do you really think pretending you don't understand makes me think my point is any less valid?
Sightless664 votesI'm not pretending about anything. I don't get what you mean. You call it free, and like I said, I think that means that you don't like that they get extra damage from autoattacking. I'm not sure. I'm not expressing confusing to make your points less valid. I'm expressing confusion because you keep saying the same thing in the same way without explaining why you think it, so nothing about my understanding of what you are saying changes at all. For example, you say shit like "The point should be to catch the Axe to proc his adoration passive" and "I also think Vayne and Draven need their damage passives removed," and then don't explain what you mean by that. Do you actually think they need a full rework or not? Do you really think that spinning axes only procing adoration makes for even remotely interesting gameplay? Yes, or no? You call things unfair too, but that tells me nothing about what you actually think and why, other than that you dislike something.
I'm just going to go ahead and assume that my guess about what you mean is correct. The thing is, what Draven, Vayne and Kalista have isn't "free". Draven has to maintain a juggling game to keep his axes up, which makes it easier to predict his actions and also means that he has some value tied to continous autoattacking, making it possible for ability-based carries to outtrade him. Vayne pays for her damage dearly with a complete lack of any way to extend her range. She has to fight within someone else's zone of threat to do anything. There is nothing unfair about that. Other people get plenty of chances to use their abilities on her and they can easily outtrade her. Kalista's damage is shit even with her W and she's getting buffs to her damage specifically because of that. Whatever she can do with a W proc trade, someone else can do better with real abilities.
From what I can tell, you dislike carries getting damage from autoattacking. I don't get why, and you haven't explained why. All you've said is "I also think Vayne and Draven need their damage passives removed, and Kalista's damage passive needs nerfed.", but you haven't given an explanation as to why you think that's necessary. I can't read your mind, and the idea seems so silly to me that I'm legitimately confused about what you want and why you want it. So, actually give me your justification. Maybe it will make sense. At the very least, it will make responding easier.
Taarki1 votesWhat about Varus's stacks. That's free damage, and then jinx's Q rockets should not deal extra damage, and sivir's AA shouldn't be able to bounce on W activation, because that's free damage, and graves dash shouldn't give him AS because that's free damage, Trist's Q gives AS, free damage. Almost every single ADC has a skill that gives them free damage, its what makes them good at being an ADC.
Sohleks1 votesEarly/ mid game is the current focus of the game.
Lucian is getting nerfed. Graves will start creeping onto the competitive scene. Corki will reign supreme for a while until he deservedly gets nerfed too either directly or by a powershift in adc itemization. Miss Fortune will probably just watch, wondering why the heck every item path is viable on her and wish she had mobility/wave clear (at least her trades in lane are very good). Jinx will keep doing her thing, shoving lane with AoE autos and scaling, hoping for teammates to set her up for that first kill.
We might see Draven, wouldn't that be fun?
Ashe and Varus frown at a further reduced cost on QSS. Crucible still in the game... Ashe is entirely too counterable and Varus could probably use a slight buff somehow. He's already a god on ARAM though. I think Varus needs a more reliable steroid or we need to push his poke/siege game through the roof. Varus laning prowess is kind of an underrated secret.
Khristophoros1 votesWait for the meta to develop further. Each player has their own ADC preferences. We saw Doublelift represent Vayne after other ADC players dropped her. I am aware that now she's legitimately terrible but there was a time when she was "not good" but he still made her work. We saw Sneaky represent Ashe in season 3 when nobody else did.
Furthermore, after some changes to the rest of the game, some people may start picking different ADCs. Warwick is getting nerfed so if he's not a factor anymore we might see more willingness for Ashe/Varus/MF picks for example.
Just wait and see what other teams pick. Jesus christ.
SmokingPuffin1 votesWait for the meta to develop further. Each player has their own ADC preferences. We saw Doublelift represent Vayne after other ADC players dropped her. I am aware that now she's legitimately terrible but there was a time when she was "not good" but he still made her work. We saw Sneaky represent Ashe in season 3 when nobody else did.
I think ADC metas only form when there is a reasonable equivalence of power. We saw Lucian all of season 4 because he wasn't balanced. Simple as that.
On the other hand, Season 3 saw a lot of fashion and diversity of opinion between various pro players. That's a sign that balance is in a pretty good spot.
Right now, I think we will see Corki bans and Lucian in every game until those two champions are nerfed. Probably Lucian nerfs this upcoming patch will cause League of Corki, and we'll get Corki nerfs in January.
Furthermore, after some changes to the rest of the game, some people may start picking different ADCs. Warwick is getting nerfed so if he's not a factor anymore we might see more willingness for Ashe/Varus/MF picks for example.
Don't hold your breath on those immobile ADCs. You just have to be so much better at the game to make them work.
Ashe is even pretty good. Doesn't exactly need buffs. You just have to understand the game better than the guy with the escape, who is winning more mechanically. Turns out that very few people actually understand League well enough to pull Ashe off.
SmokingPuffin1 votesThere are two approaches here:
Itemization rebalancing. Corki and Lucian both need nerfs, and they both like TF while most carries don't. A rework for TF that say gave less bonus damage on lower cooldown spells would have a chance of bringing them back into line. The trouble with this plan is that IE is already the best first item, and most of the natural IE users are already on the weak side.
Good old fashioned intraclass balance buffs/nerfs. Graves seems like a pretty healthy baseline right now. That means we have half a dozen ADCs in need of buffs and a few that need nerfs.
Stars Shaper1 votesOld 
was the bane of ADCs xD
Sohleks1 votesI think it really should be mentioned that hypercarries were meta in the later part of the last season. These champs require levels and most of all items to be their best. This season we've changed the dragon to award buffs instead gold which would have fueled the hypercarries' builds. Less gold earlier in the game delayed their builds and what I predicted has happened, a shift away from late game. That means these champs still have their power, just reach their points later. They're still good as champions in a vacuum.
We can either buff some champions and nerf others, widening the powercurves between these champs. We could slightly buff minion or passive gold gen too, however this affects all lanes, not just ad.
FatedTitan1 votesI think the changes to Baron really hurt some ADCs as well. You can't wait to get to late game. When a team gets Baron, they're pushing for the win.
Drunk Rummate1 voteslucian has a strong lane phase, one of the best midgames of any ADC, and extremely nice scaling on his Q and passive so that he never actually falls off late game.
there's no reason not to pick him. his passive alone makes him more valuable than most carries, not to mention his waveclear and mobility.
Cenobite Azaziel1 votesRise from your grave!