Let Kog'Maw eat things

Rebonack·Dec 24, 2015·134 votes·4,933 views

Innate - Hunger Never Sleeps: Whenever a champion dies near Kog'Maw, they leave behind Delicious Snacks for ten seconds. If Kog'Maw collects Delicious Snacks, he recovers (amount) health and mana. Additionally, picking up Delicious Snacks refreshes the cooldown on Bio-Arcane Barrage and removes the Living Artillery debuff.

Probably the biggest disconnect between Koggy's lore and his gameplay is the fact that he never eats anything. This Innate remake would solve that problem while also addressing two of the biggest barriers to Kog's success on Rift, his crippling mana issues and his woefully inadequate up-time on his W. Due to Kog's habit of eating anything, allowing him to nom dead allied champions would make sense. It also fits well with the 'kill Kog first' imperative that his presence on a team sets. However, if need be, it could be restricted to enemy champions only.

60 Comments

Nanuk PihoqahiakDec 24, 201537 votes

Thematic. He's using his acid to soften up living targets. He kills them, he should get to nom.

Someone had a hilarious idea of making it so that when he dies, if he walks onto a champion during his passive, he starts taking bites out of them.

RebonackDec 24, 201515 votes

If Kog jumped onto people at melee range and started biting them when his W is active, that would probably be the most hilarious thing ever.

It would probably be unbalanced, but it if also feared the target I would pay good money to see an assassin running around with their arms flailing with Kog clinging tenaciously to their face.

SociopathFriendDec 25, 20153 votes

If you ever played the old PS1 game "Unholy War" then you'd remember the Prana Devil, who had an attack that was exactly that, that was my favorite unit in that game.

AuroramancerDec 25, 20151 votes

Gah Unholy War, I miss that game so much. Tiny 1v1 battle arenas. Quiksilver was my favorite.

ObericDec 26, 20151 votes

I still own Unholy War, amazing game. Totally deserves a sequel or hd remake.

I really liked the Wasp and Tesla units.

LhostalisDec 25, 20155 votes

Oh, so Kog'maw gets free snacks? BUT GRAVES CAN'T HAVE HIS FRICKIN' CIGAR!?!?!

QuortDec 25, 20154 votes

But you're sacrificing a ton of DPS and safety by waddling into a potentially dangerous spot for the sake of some tasty snacks. It's an interesting concept but I don't think it would solve much.

It also doesn't seem as fun... Kogs current passive may be lackluster, but killing someone after they kill you is so satisfying.

RebonackDec 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

But you're sacrificing a ton of DPS and safety by waddling into a potentially dangerous spot for the sake of some tasty snacks. It's an interesting concept but I don't think it would solve much.

It also doesn't seem as fun... Kogs current passive may be lackluster, but killing someone after they kill you is so satisfying.

Often times champions focused on long-range and staying away from the enemy team have Innate that reward them from moving in closer and taking risks. Of the top of my head, Lux Orianna Xerath Ziggs all have Innates like this.

Notice what they have in common?

They're all champions with super long-range kits that normally encourage them to stay FAR away. But their Innates reward them for taking risks.

This is the same sort of idea I had for Koggy's Innate.

Getting Snacks from an Assassin or Fighter who dives you would be easy. They would basically be left at Kog's feet. Same for a snack from an allied champion who died protecting you. Picking up Snacks that are further away would be more difficult, more risky, but also rewarding. Maybe increase the healing on Snacks that spawn further away from Kog to make them more attractive?

QuortDec 25, 20151 votes

But all those Mages also have better ways of defending themselves than KogMaw (I.e. hard CC, mobility, or even shields) and even then they only need to get within distance to auto attack as opposed to standing on top of it. Most of them don't even require their passive to function past the laning phase because in teamfights running in close for that auto attack is still too dangerous for a long range, squishy Mage. KogMaws goal, similarly, is to stay far away from diving Assassins and Fighters/Juggernauts and his team's goal is to keep them off of him so I can't see enemy corpses as being reliables you close to him.

RebonackDec 24, 20153 votes

Obviously there would be other ways to patch up Koggy's W uptime and mana issues, but the Innate suggested here would a very clean, very thematic way of doing so.

Maximum Ao ShinDec 24, 20152 votes

so literally fresh meat from hots

RebonackDec 24, 201523 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Ao Shin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T58KU7ME,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-12-24T20:14:22.774+0000)

so literally fresh meat from hots

Never played Heroes of the Storm so maybe?

You tell me.

A champion that causes dead champions to drop things that are useful to them wouldn't exactly be a new feature Thresh

Revlak JavikDec 25, 20155 votes

I play HotS, I know what he's talking about. The Butcher has a trait that allows him to gain "Fresh Meat" from dead minions and Heroes, increasing his Basic Attack damage up to 25% (35% with a talent), but if he dies, he loses all of his stacks (half if he gets the talent).

But Thresh already has a stacking passive, so I see little relation to Kog'Maw and Butcher.

RebonackDec 25, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Revlak Javik,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T58KU7ME,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2015-12-25T04:13:51.322+0000)

I play HotS, I know what he's talking about. The Butcher has a trait that allows him to gain "Fresh Meat" from dead minions and Heroes, increasing his Basic Attack damage up to 25% (35% with a talent), but if he dies, he loses all of his stacks (half if he gets the talent).

But Thresh already has a stacking passive, so I see little relation to Kog'Maw and Butcher.

Oh.

Huh.

That has nothing to do with what I suggested.

Koggy wouldn't get extra damage from picking up Snacks. Just a heal and a refresh on his W and R. And no Snacks dropped by minions. Champs only.

MrSlowDieDec 24, 20152 votes

it's a nice idea but I don't see it fits riot's intention about kogmaw. so riot want him to be rooted in place and do many damages, I presume it's because the juggermaw strategy that was popular, so they think "let's push his juggermaw hypercarry power even more!!", If that's true, then riot won't implement this, because they want kogmaw to protected, and not able to be protect himself.

RebonackDec 24, 20154 votes

{quoted}

it's a nice idea but I don't see it fits riot's intention about kogmaw. so riot want him to be rooted in place and do many damages, I presume it's because the juggermaw strategy that was popular, so they think "let's push his juggermaw hypercarry power even more!!", If that's true, then riot won't implement this, because they want kogmaw to protected, and not able to be protect himself.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

Part of the concept behind his Innate change is that it would further underline the fact that a team wants to protect Koggy. If an ally sacrifices themselves to protect Kog, he can heal off that. If his team protects him from a diver, he can heal off that as well.

The Innate that he has right now actually rewards him for getting killed by a diver. That's the exact opposite of how Kog should work. Picking up the Delicious Snacks would also be a risk for Koggy. Does he want to move a bit out of position to grab one, or should he hang back and risk his W giving up the ghost at the worst possible moment?

The DeckownerDec 24, 20152 votes

ikr i dont get how cho get to eat stuff and kog cant.

ofartDec 25, 20152 votes

Kog may not eat anything but he's a delicious snack for many ADCs at the moment. ;)

This idea is a lot like my "Kills and Assists extend W by 2 seconds" but more thematic. Although, I do have a lot of fun using Kog's current passive. However, keeping both might be too much.

RebonackDec 25, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Kog may not eat anything but he's a delicious snack for many ADCs at the moment. ;)

This idea is a lot like my "Kills and Assists extend W by 2 seconds" but more thematic. Although, I do have a lot of fun using Kog's current passive. However, keeping both might be too much.

Koggy's current passive is hilariously fun.

No argument there.

But it just doesn't fit with his kit or the direction Riot seems to be taking him in.

There are lots of different ways to fix the issue of Koggy not actually filling the sustained damage fantasy Riot is shooting for. The ideal for me would be to simply replace his Innate with the double attack speed portion of his W (and probably the %HP damage too). I like simple solutions.

This one, though?

Very fun and thematic. Much more gameplay involved.

GeorgeKnightRTDec 25, 20152 votes

The void as class of champions is full of guys that want to devour and erase you (cho, kha, kassadin...), let kog be an exception; A monstrous artillery bird that is too bizzy spitting and throwing things at you to even consider eating you right off the bat, I think that fits a lot better his theme.

morris1Dec 25, 20152 votes

It would require being a good amount of heal, since its high risk / reward potential is definitely there, I mean making a Kog walk closer to his enemies once his tank dies could get him out of position incredibly fast.

RebonackDec 25, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moraru Maurice,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T58KU7ME,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2015-12-25T16:37:58.989+0000)

It would require being a good amount of heal, since its high risk / reward potential is definitely there, I mean making a Kog walk closer to his enemies once his tank dies could get him out of position incredibly fast.

Consider the average team-fight.

Usually you'll have somewhere between one and three champs who escape that lost the battle. If Kog is on the winning side of that, he would be able to quickly heal up by collecting Snacks and then help his team snag an objective. If he's on the losing side, he would be able to grab some Snacks from his dead buddies and fall back to defend until they respawn.

MunchCrunchLunchDec 24, 20151 votes

i dont see how is that any useful late game or in a team fight.

RebonackDec 24, 20155 votes

{quoted}

i dont see how is that any useful late game or in a team fight.

Being able to heal up and refresh your W would be pretty helpful to Kog if he gets pounced on by an Assassin and his team manages to kill said assassin before they kill Kog.

It rewards Kog for being protected and gives the enemy team extra incentive to prioritize him as a target.

Kog And BallsDec 24, 20152 votes

I'll take things that never happen for 1000

RebonackDec 24, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I'll take things that never happen for 1000

Because it would be OP, or because Riot isn't going to waste time on an unpopular champion?

Or maybe because Koggy's chances of surviving an Assassin dive are awful?

TyaldanDec 25, 20152 votes

idk ive always felt that starting mid game and well into late game kog has more than enough burst to kill any assasin that tries to dive him. Ive killed zeds before they could get more than one hit on me after ulting to me, leaving me well over half health after the burst. The only time they are a true threat is if they A come with cc or B you cannot target them at all while they are approaching (shaco rengar talon etc)

Melee FormDec 25, 20151 votes

Please not another mini game...

RebonackDec 25, 201512 votes

[{quoted}](name=Melee Form,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T58KU7ME,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-12-25T02:06:13.808+0000)

Please not another mini game...

RIOT WILL ADD MINIGAMES TO ALL CHAMPIONS AND WE SHALL LIKE IT

PeponiPoroDec 25, 20154 votes

Yall seen Darkk Mane? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWrTkbQy_gY

King of MongooseDec 25, 20151 votes

How about we don't give a huge buff to one of the strongest adc's right now

he already has the biggest damage especially at lvl 2

RebonackDec 25, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=King of Mongoose,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T58KU7ME,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2015-12-25T04:22:25.255+0000)

How about we don't give a huge buff to one of the strongest adc's right now

he already has the biggest damage especially at lvl 2

No trolling in my topic, please.

Pierce The VealDec 25, 20151 votes

Kog'maws passive changed to one last meal. If he kills someone after being killed using his passive he comes back to life.

RebonackDec 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Kog'maws passive changed to one last meal. If he kills someone after being killed using his passive he comes back to life.

Maybe if he came back to life for a limited time like Sion.

But I foresee something like that causing more problems that it would solve.

Pierce The VealDec 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Maybe if he came back to life for a limited time like Sion.

But I foresee something like that causing more problems that it would solve.

We can dream, can't we?

RebonackDec 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

We can dream, can't we?

:/

No dreams here.

Only broken promises.

Pierce The VealDec 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

No dreams here.

Only broken promises.

You're right. But it's always been that way. Like it or not, unless the champion is flashy to play Riot doesn't care all that much.

RebonackDec 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You're right. But it's always been that way. Like it or not, unless the champion is flashy to play Riot doesn't care all that much.

I still can't get over the fact that Riot set out to buff Kog in the last patch and ended up nerfing him instead. It's absolutely unreal.

Pierce The VealDec 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I still can't get over the fact that Riot set out to buff Kog in the last patch and ended up nerfing him instead. It's absolutely unreal.

It's not unreal, it's Riot games. I'm not sure what you were expecting. I, despite previously maining Kog, albeit AP kog, had no hopes from their rework.

RebonackDec 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It's not unreal, it's Riot games. I'm not sure what you were expecting. I, despite previously maining Kog, albeit AP kog, had no hopes from their rework.

I don't think the rework is bad.

I think a few tweaked numbers and altered abilities would probably be able to keep it in line.

I've got an 'ideal' Kog fix bouncing around in my head that would allow all his various builds to shine, but it isn't this one. This is the 'fun' thematic one. The best approach would be a pretty simple one.

Pierce The VealDec 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I don't think the rework is bad.

I think a few tweaked numbers and altered abilities would probably be able to keep it in line.

I've got an 'ideal' Kog fix bouncing around in my head that would allow all his various builds to shine, but it isn't this one. This is the 'fun' thematic one. The best approach would be a pretty simple one.

The fix is to remove the stacking ult mana cost debuff. His ult simply isn't amazing enough now as either AP kog or AD kog for it to be worth spamming with its current mana cost.

RebonackDec 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The fix is to remove the stacking ult mana cost debuff. His ult simply isn't amazing enough now as either AP kog or AD kog for it to be worth spamming with its current mana cost.

EITHER set the Ult's cost to a flat 60 (or whatever amount would be reasonable) mana-

-OR make the bonus damage smoothly increase with 2.667% bonus damage per 1% HP the target is missing.

Either would make Ult-focused builds attractive.

Pierce The VealDec 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

EITHER set the Ult's cost to a flat 60 (or whatever amount would be reasonable) mana-

-OR make the bonus damage smoothly increase with 2.667% bonus damage per 1% HP the target is missing.

Either would make Ult-focused builds attractive.

Yeah basicaly one of these two is what needs to be done. AP kog is basically dead (nashors kog doesn't count) and AD kog basically doesn't use his ult except as one last auto attack to execute an escaping target.

JahsehDec 25, 20151 votes

That would be broken as fuck.

RebonackDec 25, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hydra Snake,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T58KU7ME,comment-id=0015,timestamp=2015-12-25T21:26:05.087+0000)

That would be broken as fuck.

Broken as in impossible to balance? Broken as in impossible to be used in the intended fashion?

Or do you just mean over-powered? I never suggested any numbers on the heal. What if it were only 1 HP? Ten? Would it still be over-tuned? How high would it have to be before it became 'broken as fuck?'

Have you run any playtest iterations on the concept?

No?

Then how do you know it would be inherently unbalancable?

PoskeDec 25, 20151 votes

I like the idea. Definetly better then current passive and probably more powerful then it but that would be balanced out
He spits on something his vomit and then he eats that? I dont know how he feels about eating his own puke o.o grose
He is really immobile ... so in reallity I only see him picking up those "VOMIT SNACKS ...GROSE" when his team is moving forward. That doesnt sound satisfying gameplay wise

Good post though

The other idea (Credit to whoever suggested it) Where kog passive instead of explosion is chasing omnomnomnomnom sounds more fitting

RebonackDec 25, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T58KU7ME,comment-id=0016,timestamp=2015-12-25T23:12:09.053+0000)

I like the idea. Definetly better then current passive and probably more powerful then it but that would be balanced out

He spits on something his vomit and then he eats that? I dont know how he feels about eating his own puke o.o grose

He is really immobile ... so in reallity I only see him picking up those "VOMIT SNACKS ...GROSE" when his team is moving forward. That doesnt sound satisfying gameplay wise

Good post though

The other idea (Credit to whoever suggested it) Where kog passive instead of explosion is chasing omnomnomnomnom sounds more fitting

Think of it in terms of ganks bottom lane.

Say Kog's side manages to kill one enemy (or the enemy kills his support). He can pick up the Snack and suddenly POW! His HP is higher and his W just got refreshed. It would give him an edge to keep up the fight. Though I suspect the most common use would be to kill a diver and then heal up. It helps to really hammer home the kill Kog first! imperative that Koggy is supposed to bring to the table. Because if you don't he's just going to heal and eat your whole team.

As far as the vomiting and eating, a lot of arthropods spit or inject digestive enzymes onto things and then drink the soupy froth that results. Because bugs are weird.