So when is League's contract with Garena ending?

HarveyiKfAbQ·Jul 11, 2019·6 votes·10,120 views

If any Riot employee is reading this, your partnership with Garena sucks ass.

You'll hardly have 60,000 players on the SIngapore server which is supposed to serve 3+ regions in itself, and your low elo especially sucks there so bad it isn't even worth making an account in.

I have been climbing through EuW with an 80%ish winrate constant, despite the ping being close to 200 for someone who lives in SEA. And even I cannot stand the shit place that Garena's servers are.

When on earth does your contract end and when do you host an actual server so we can play without having to get onto this cancer or suffer from the inevitable high ping?

33 Comments

BluefootJul 17, 20192 votes

Not to mention the Garena launcher is legit a rootkit / keylogger / suspected crypto-miner.

Pika FoxJul 11, 20191 votes

Likely never, given laws in the area would make it difficult for riot to host a server there themselves anyway.

HarveyiKfAbQJul 11, 20195 votes

What laws are you talking about?

Literally most other games have a server here. Dota, CS, and a ton of other games. Why would the law make an exception for LoL?

Pika FoxJul 11, 20191 votes

{quoted}

What laws are you talking about?

Literally most other games have a server here. Dota, CS, and a ton of other games. Why would the law make an exception for LoL?

It is very difficult for a foreign company to host a server in areas like china. You generally need a chinese company to do so.

HarveyiKfAbQJul 11, 20195 votes

I don't live in China and China already has servers which require a different client.

For countries such as India, Sinagpore, and Malaysia, we don't have a real server. The Garena system sucks ass and is unbearable to play on.

OrøchiJul 12, 20195 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T2cBYYEL,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-11T19:21:44.058+0000)

It is very difficult for a foreign company to host a server in areas like china. You generally need a chinese company to do so.

Riot is owned by tencent

Pika FoxJul 12, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Riot is owned by tencent

Except theyre not, and even then tencent would be the ones doing things overseas, not riot.

Stray KatJul 17, 20192 votes

"Riot Games was majority-acquired by Tencent in February 2011 and fully acquired in December 2015. ... Riot Games is best known for League of Legends, a multiplayer online battle arena game and the company's flagship product."

A simple Google search shows this in less than 5 seconds of effort.

Pika FoxJul 17, 20191 votes

Thats not how ownership works.

Stray KatJul 18, 20192 votes

Oh, sorry, I forgot the world had that big update that made it so buying ownership of something doesn't mean you own it anymore.

Pika FoxJul 18, 20191 votes

They bought stock, not ownership.

SEKAIJul 18, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T2cBYYEL,comment-id=000000000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-18T13:06:00.562+0000)

They bought stock, not ownership.

When you own over 51% of stock of a company, you become its de facto owner because you decide all decisions made in the company since you own a majority of stock and thus you hold the majority of bargaining right yourself already.

When you own a super majority of stock of a company, the ownership transfers to you and you become its legal owner.

That's how buying out a company works. Riot has always been owned by Tencent since Season 1.

Pika FoxJul 18, 20191 votes

You have zero idea how stocks work.

Sean ZhaoAug 8, 20193 votes

Pink Fox wtf are you talking about. Stock is literally ownership of a company. Stop telling people they "have zero idea how stocks work". Google "hostile takeover" and read about it if you don't think owning 51% shares of a company isn't owning it.

SEKAIJul 18, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T2cBYYEL,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-07-12T20:17:37.722+0000)

Except theyre not, and even then tencent would be the ones doing things overseas, not riot.

They are 100% owned by Tencent, every single stock is owned by Tencent.

Tencent owned 93% already at Season 1. They just bought the last remaining 7% in Season 5 because reason.

To say Riot isn't owned by Tencent can't be further from the truth.

Pika FoxJul 18, 20191 votes

Owning stock =/= owning the company.

This is literally not how this works.

Hell, tencent has even less say than normal even though they own a majority share because they have a hands off contract.

SEKAIJul 18, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T2cBYYEL,comment-id=0000000000000001000000010000,timestamp=2019-07-18T13:12:38.860+0000)

Owning stock =/= owning the company.

This is literally not how this works.

Hell, tencent has even less say than normal even though they own a majority share because they have a hands off contract.

I was wrong in saying that holding 100% of stock makes you the "legal owner" of a company. That much is wrong.

And yes, holding shares is different to actual ownership of the company. There is a distinction between the 2. You are on the money on that.

However, holding a majority of shares does make you a "de facto" owner of the company because shares do translate to voting power within the company; as such if you yourself already hold the majority votes of the company, then you effectively decide everything that's gonna happen since all decisions have to get through you. And thus you "de facto" runs the company the way you see fit.

Pika FoxJul 18, 20191 votes

It doesnt make you an owner, it gives you board representation and decisions made must be run by you with your input. The company also cant intentionally tank itself and must be transparent.

Tencent waved most of their board say and wants nothing to do with all that. They just have the ability to run the game in china, and make money off their investment. They have no actual say in any non chinese decision.

SEKAIJul 18, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T2cBYYEL,comment-id=000000000000000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-18T13:24:39.353+0000)

It doesnt make you an owner, it gives you board representation and decisions made must be run by you with your input. The company also cant intentionally tank itself and must be transparent.

Tencent waved most of their board say and wants nothing to do with all that. They just have the ability to run the game in china, and make money off their investment. They have no actual say in any non chinese decision.

Tencent owns all shares in Riot, every single one of them (pre Season 5 it was 93%). This basically means every decision Riot makes have to get a Yes from Tencent.

Tencent may be hands-off and doesn't really jump in to do all that much, after all it is probably only interested in the investment return and at most it's gonna do is probably the business side in its natural habitat in China. Smart business people would probably opt to do something like that.

But to say Tencent doesn't hold the de facto ownership status is as far as I can tell, pretty wrong. After all, they do hold 100% of Riot's shares and that means it has 100% of its board presentation and thus probably the only decision maker on the meeting table.

Pika FoxJul 18, 20191 votes

Again, thats not how shares or even board representation works, and even if it did tencent literally signed a contract waving their board representation.

SEKAIJul 18, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T2cBYYEL,comment-id=00000000000000010000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-18T13:33:05.217+0000)

Again, thats not how shares or even board representation works, and even if it did tencent literally signed a contract waving their board representation.

If you own a majority of shares, your voting power increases so that you can indirectly control the direction of a company by appointing its board of directors. This becomes most apparent when one company buys another: the acquiring company doesn’t go around buying up the building, the chairs, the employees; it buys up all the shares. The board of directors is responsible for increasing the value of the corporation, and often does so by hiring professional managers, or officers, such as the Chief Executive Officer, or CEO.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/stock.asp

Yes. It's how the relationship between buying shares and board representation/voting power works.

Owning 100% of shares in the case of Tencent and Riot does make Tencent its de facto owner who runs the place. Tencent may out of their initiative choose to not opt to actually run Riot and leave Riot to is own devices, but it doesn't mean Tencent isn't entitled to be the show-runner.

Pika FoxJul 18, 20191 votes

Even your snippet doesnt agree with you and your claim that they become the owner, they just get some power to ensure they dont lose money, and thats really it.

And, again, tencent literally signed a contract waving all of this, so they arent even entitled to even this.

SEKAIJul 18, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T2cBYYEL,comment-id=0000000000000001000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-18T13:41:06.598+0000)

Even your snippet doesnt agree with you and your claim that they become the owner, they just get some power to ensure they dont lose money, and thats really it.

And, again, tencent literally signed a contract waving all of this, so they arent even entitled to even this.

????

Didn't I clarify that a few posts back (it's the last post on page 1) that I was wrong to say owning 100% shares can make you a "legal owner", and correct it to say "de facto owner when owning a majority of shares"?

I think you're stuck on the term "de facto" or something. Just to make sure, "de facto" means "existing or holding a specified position in fact but not necessarily by legal right." And being a "de facto" owner is basically what happens when you own a majority of stock.

When you have 100% of share ownership, you shape the board of directors to your liking whenever and however you please. That then indirectly means you control the company.

Again, just because Tencent may choose to do a hands-off approach, it doesn't mean buying out all the shares doesn't give opportunity for total control of a company.

Pika FoxJul 18, 20191 votes

Except you dont get control of a company, you get certain rights to ensure the company turns a profit, and can only make decisions relating to that.

SEKAIJul 18, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T2cBYYEL,comment-id=00000000000000010000000100000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-07-18T13:49:37.963+0000)

Except you dont get control of a company, you get certain rights to ensure the company turns a profit, and can only make decisions relating to that.

Companies exist to make money because capitalism. So if you can make decisions related to making money, that means you run the company.

Obviously, a board of director isn't going to be personally involved in deciding who to receive the next skin, what kind of champ they're going to release next, or what hair the Project Jinx is going to have.

They make bigger decisions, marketing, events, and ofc hiring who would be doing all those technical stuff. They care about the all the other "big decisions" that matters about running the company and keeping it afloat.

And holding ALL the shares means you own the board of directors, and thus you can run the company any way you please into whatever direction you fancy on the "big decision" level, indirectly so.

That's why the "de facto" comes in.

yolomcharshFeb 26, 20201 votes

Reading this entire conversation as a ACCA member made me totally flip my shit.

SiddyboySep 4, 20191 votes

What are you saying LOL

Firstly, China is not in South East Asia..

Secondly, you need to go and enrol in a school nearest to you as soon as possible.

KazekibaJul 11, 20191 votes

60k is still a good number of people. I play MMOs with fewer people + 5 servers (Korea, China, and Japan have independent servers)

HarveyiKfAbQJul 11, 20191 votes

That isn't half as much the players in the official areas. Iirc even LoL Japan had more players.

With 60k players you find yourself facing the same played every second match lmao. And that's in low elo such as bronze silver. In higher elo if you haven't played two matches without a common player, you're probably playing off Garena.

Zeppelins circusJul 12, 20192 votes

{quoted}

That isn't half as much the players in the official areas. Iirc even LoL Japan had more players.

With 60k players you find yourself facing the same played every second match lmao. And that's in low elo such as bronze silver. In higher elo if you haven't played two matches without a common player, you're probably playing off Garena.

I played on NA server in SIngapore. Garena supported league is not even a game.

HarveyiKfAbQJul 17, 20192 votes

Those fuckers had a slow af client for a reason.

Besides their ping goes up every month. I used to get a ping of around 50 around half a year ago and get somewhere around 100 these days. No reason to play there.

Crimson ZeppelinJul 18, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Those fuckers had a slow af client for a reason.

Besides their ping goes up every month. I used to get a ping of around 50 around half a year ago and get somewhere around 100 these days. No reason to play there.

Remember the time when the damn Garena client was mining bitcoins and siphoning up data? And now we the Huawei fiasco? It's just damn creepy.

Internal DreamAug 11, 20191 votes

I thought I saw a post on Reddit saying that it ended this year, not sure. Though that's of course only basing off of other players' knowledge of the whole thing. Unfortunately can't remember what Reddit Post it was, otherwise I'd link it. Though definitely something that need to be looked into by Riot themselves.