What is Riot's current stance on items that supply both defense and AD?

KSHarrison·4/24/2015, 8:30:24 AM·3 votes·605 views

I seem to remember that 2-3 years ago, the item Atma's Impaler was nerfed. It had the following stats:

Atma's Impaler

  • 45 Armor
  • 18% Crit Chance
  • Bonus AD equal to 2% of max health

It was built on every bruiser as part of the meta golem build. The nerf lowered the bonus AD from 2% to 1.5%.

The rationale for the nerf as I recall (correct me please if I'm wrong) was that Riot did not like an item that provided both defense and offense, because they were too well rounded that it shoved out item diversity.

Fast forward to today, and we see the new Black Cleaver being released:

Black Cleaver

  • 400 Health
  • 40 AD
  • 20% CDR
  • 6% armor reduction on physical damage (max 6 stacks)
  • Bonus 20 MS on hit

This seems very much in line with the original Atma's Impaler. Some people may instinctively point out that Atma's Impaler had a potential infinite scaling with its passive; however, in practice this was never the case because health ranged between 1500-4000. In terms of slot efficiency, the offensive potential of having 80 AD (only at full build) vs. 40 AD + % armor reduction still favors Black Cleaver, even over the crit chance. If anything, the Black Cleaver reducing armor makes counter-building it more difficult. The key point here is slot efficiency.

The bonus health will actually end up being superior to the armor, especially after armor pen effects. It also boosts survivability against Magic and flat True Damage.

The % CDR has universal utility in amplifying offense, defense, and CC. Along with the Rage effect, this helps the item cater to a broad range of classes; it seems to feature that same well-rounded applicability as Atma's that can overshadow items with a specialized design.

##Question

I understand philosophies change over the years, and also the game is definitely different now than in 2012. Why is this iteration of a defense + AD item better than previously? How does Riot envision its role in today's meta?

Because the meta has changed, this isn't meant to flag Riot as inconsistent. It's about game design philosophy, so please keeping any discussion constructive and focused on understanding the change would be appreciated.

11 Comments

IcyPepper4/24/2015, 8:55:43 AM3 votes

You've ever seen an adc build black cleaver?

NoMonku4/24/2015, 9:09:54 AM1 votes

AD/Armor items got removed from the game mainly because tanky AD champions would most likely end up rushing them. Also way back in s1/2, wriggles offered both AD/Armor and ADC's would buy it, giving them both damage and defense. Also, Atma's would be broken on Sion, especially with the way he got reworked and with the introduction of cinderhulk, hence its removal.

If these are the new BC changes, it is good to me. I often find I am lacking 10% CDR in my builds whenever I'm playing an AD caster and often opt to going another item 3134 just for the CDR. Its usually either this, SV, or to over CDR w/ something else. This item is more for tanky bruisers, since ADC's want more upfront damage. If it does get picked up on them, then the item will probably get toned down, so you don't need to worry about it.

36949613_DEL4/24/2015, 12:20:16 PM1 votes

Nice topic. I dont know what is problem , i see where is this game going , ap-ad hybrids are strong (shivana , udyr , volibear , irelia , jax) there is no stronger champs than tham. Now we all know thay do both ad and ap (some of tham even true dmg) how do we suppose to deal with it ? Build armor and mr . Excuse me , buying MR and ARMOR (both ) is expensive!!! and i will lack DMG , and thay will still kill me. This is still mystery to me cause there is no cheep ARMOR and MR items.

36949613_DEL4/24/2015, 1:57:14 PM1 votes

RIP ad long live HYBRIDS