Shaco's rework killed AD Assassin Shaco

Workshop Shaco·11/13/2016, 9:36:17 PM·148 votes·14,516 views

UPDATE: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-624-notes#patch-shaco All I can say is, good enough I guess.

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His passive has essentially become "Now that I have a decent amount of crit chance, I have to avoid attacking from behind because it'll make me do less damage than usual."

Currently, his passive does a significantly less amount of damage than a normal crit would do, even with IE it is still less damage than a normal crit. Therefore, buying crit on him is actually pointless because there's a chance that a crit auto will be replaced with a backstab crit, which is shit.

Most Shaco players right now are either abusing the overly buffed AP Shaco, the slightly buffed DPS/Bruiser Shaco, or are desperately trying to find a way to bring AD Shaco into reality. Nothing like running 25% crit damage in my runes in an attempt to make this work, amirite?

Now, don't get me wrong, they had the right idea here (you know, making assassins not burst you instantly so you can react), but I personally think it failed since well... it killed the main playstyle of the champion entirely.

All Riot really has to do is just make his passive add 20%--45% bonus damage to the attack (at levels 1-18) instead of replacing the attack with one that deals 120-145% (at levels 1-18).

This would change nothing about AP Shaco's damage, or bruiser Shaco's damage, but it would make crit Shaco's damage comparable to what it was before. If anything, the number can be lowered and the cooldown could be lowered too (and Q AP ratio increased by .1) so that it's still an actual nerf to AD assassin Shaco while keeping everything else the same.

Compared to old AD Assassin Shaco's burst, the current rework with the proposed changes would still have a much healthier powercurve (damage scales with levels), a much better team fight and a much worse splitpush (rip clone). It would fix a lot of the issues this rework presented, while also keeping the issues prior to the rework resolved.

I know there's others who agree with me.

Edit: These two elaborated for me, more or less

{quoted}

If the best Shaco build looks like this:

item 1402 item 3020 item 3146 item 3100 item 3089 item 3031

We might have a problem here, Riot. AD Shaco is literally so garbage that AP Shaco now does the job of old AD Shaco and current AD Shaco is just sort of sucking on his shiv.

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[{quoted}](name=Mad Hatter Shaco,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RvYrEXU6,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-11-13T22:23:35.420+0000)

I'd like to put forth that we do not hate the fact our champion was nerfed, we hate the fact that using everything to its fullest with new Shaco is now WORSE than doing things poorly, as well as the fact that late game became significantly worse than before, when you at riot stated he would be gaining power there. One could argue the crit being 100% chance is much makes the 55% damage nerf from a standard crit ok, however when looking at previous Crit Shaco build: item 3031 item 3087 item 3046 item 3508 item 3748 before the rework was a great build, netting you a 100% guarantee that your first auto would do 324% Hit if hit from behind. This build was the late game, a place you at riot said would be getting the power lost in early, however; now the hit from behind is 195%, when hitting from the FRONT would be 250%. Now I have no problem with the nerfs, but if playing the champion incorrectly is worse than correctly there is an issue. With Workshop Shaco's change the hit would be 295% which is in fact still a nerf from before but its not over 100% like it is now and would reward skillful play of shaco in the late game again.

Edit 2: Another fix would be making the damage from backstab scale with Shaco's crit chance as well as any crit damage amplifiers. This would allow all current playstyles go unchanged while also making the late game expensive oriented AD Shaco builds do what they deserve to do. Just a thought.

233 Comments

Dark Star Shaco11/13/2016, 10:23:35 PM22 votes

I'd like to put forth that we do not hate the fact our champion was nerfed, we hate the fact that using everything to its fullest with new Shaco is now WORSE than doing things poorly, as well as the fact that late game became significantly worse than before, when you at riot stated he would be gaining power there. One could argue the crit being 100% chance is much makes the 55% damage nerf from a standard crit ok, however when looking at previous Crit Shaco build: item 3031 item 3087 item 3046 item 3508 item 3748 before the rework was a great build, netting you a 100% guarantee that your first auto would do 324% Hit if hit from behind. This build was the late game, a place you at riot said would be getting the power lost in early, however; now the hit from behind is 195%, when hitting from the FRONT would be 250%. Now I have no problem with the nerfs, but if playing the champion incorrectly is worse than correctly there is an issue. With Workshop Shaco's change the hit would be 295% which is in fact still a nerf from before but its not over 100% like it is now and would reward skillful play of shaco in the late game again.

ChickenWrap11/13/2016, 10:06:15 PM18 votes

If the best Shaco build looks like this:

item 1402 item 3020 item 3146 item 3100 item 3089 item 3031

We might have a problem here, Riot. AD Shaco is literally so garbage that AP Shaco now does the job of old AD Shaco and current AD Shaco is just sort of sucking on his shiv.

NA Fearless11/14/2016, 2:46:17 AM15 votes

Not only they killed Shaco AD. Thunderlords doesnt work because of backstab crit.. heres a video thats probes the bug whit shacos thunderslord https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4LcGUa6bA8

Super Shaco11/13/2016, 9:40:21 PM14 votes

FIX AD SHACO....

TequilaZombie11/14/2016, 12:00:04 AM8 votes

With the Assassin's Update Riot wanted to give Assassins more counterplay, while allowing them to still do their jobs. Well, with Shaco they just did the EXACT OPOSITE of that. He has the exact same counterplay than before (hell, even less with the invisibility thing), but is unnable to do his job properly due to disproportional nerfs.

Sherlock Clones11/14/2016, 1:05:55 PM8 votes

It would actually be nice it a rioter would comment and at least give their opinion on the matter. I know many shaco mains including myself are really frustrated right now with how underwhelming shaco is right now. I mean when you have someone like shaclone legit quit the game because of how useless shaco is, thats a problem

Sherlock Clones11/15/2016, 6:27:59 PM5 votes

What he needs a revert back to his original status before they "changed" him.

Workshop Shaco11/13/2016, 11:45:18 PM5 votes

I'd really love a Rioter response on this.

Psalms11/14/2016, 4:17:18 AM5 votes

Bump for red response. Passive is completely broken. It punishes you for attacking from behind (contrary to champ design) and doesn't count toward thunder lord's). Q duration is too short Ranks 1-2. E is terrible and feels pointless for 90% of the game. Tell us how you plan on fixing this before pre-season ends.

Workshop Shaco11/14/2016, 7:58:28 PM5 votes

Wow this blew up more than I thought it would; I'm glad this is getting the attention it needs.

Sherlock Clones11/14/2016, 10:22:22 PM5 votes

So i guess riot doesn't want to respond and i doubt they will actually do anything about shaco being this underwhelming. Typical

Ben Sharpio11/13/2016, 9:56:59 PM4 votes

This is fantastic news. Shaco has a toxic kit and now you can't outplay his invisibility. QOL for a lot of people has increased since this rework.

Workshop Shaco11/14/2016, 3:26:06 AM4 votes

ty guys for keeping this thread alive

Ghazgkhull11/15/2016, 8:51:35 AM4 votes

Hello, could we have an answer?..

I just don't want to play Shaco anymore

Wy u do dis rito

Wyrmblade11/13/2016, 11:56:23 PM4 votes

The main playstyle of the champion was one shotting people from invisibility.

I'm okay with losing that.

Sherlock Clones11/15/2016, 5:10:00 PM4 votes

It is amazing riot has yet to reach out or comment...

Sherlock Clones11/14/2016, 8:10:41 PM4 votes

Still waiting for that riot response...

Psalms11/14/2016, 2:13:33 AM3 votes

Speaking as a Shaco main since 2009 - they completely raped him. Terribly designed rework. They need to revert almost all of it (I'll keep finally being able to W while stealth, thx).

Workshop Shaco11/14/2016, 1:22:43 AM3 votes

I think people are forgetting the point of this thread, it literally won't change him from the way he is this patch except for making him better late game (like Riot intended) as an AD assassin. Quite literally, it just gives him more build options and makes it so that you can still utilize his passive when playing his older playstyle.

lolipopevelynn11/13/2016, 11:48:48 PM2 votes

Since we are posting bull shit false facts, I mind as well post an actual AD shaco build that works.

http://imgur.com/a/PSEia

Big Lincoln11/13/2016, 10:01:49 PM1 votes

i would like to have AD shaco back

AP is very fun but I really don't like not being able to opt for splitpushing without completely losing any damage I could do in teamfights