Boards›Gameplay

Workshop Shaco's Shaco Workshop [Champion Update Proposal]

Workshop Shaco·8/14/2015, 12:39:11 AM·22 votes·5,911 views

Hey G&B. I have been playing Shaco since Season 3 and I absolutely adore this champion. I made a thread pretty recently about how Shaco needs a ton of bug fixes and some QoL changes (http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/8yGGgyNw-remember-how-for-most-of-season-4-shacos-q-made-the-turret-switch-aggro-away-from-him?show=flat) and at the bottom I mentioned how I was making up a Shaco champion update. Well, this is it!

I've talked to multiple Shaco mains all the way from the bottom of silver to master tier about his current kit and this is the result of all their input.

First here is a little basic information about current Shaco. He was made in 2009 and was completely broken for the first two seasons of the game. In the beginning of Season 3 the nerfed him into the floor and he became a troll pick for a while. Some people continued to play him and make him work, me being one of those people. However his insanely outdated kit is really becoming something Riot can't just ignore any longer. At this time last year his overall win rate was about 56% averaged in from all elos. Currently he sits at a 49% win rate on average.

He is a giant buggy mess that hasn't been touched in ages, and he desperately needs some "modernizing". I wrote one of these last year and it had mixed results, so here is the result of feedback combined with the ideas I got from other Shaco mains.

Ok now for the changes I think would make his kit less "toxic", a bit easier to get the hang of, and easier to balance.

Base Stats Health: 582 lvl 1---> 2010 lvl 18 Health: 590 lvl 1-->2010 lvl 18 Attack Damage: 58 lvl 1 –-> 117 lvl 18 Health Regen: 8.4 lvl 1 – 17.7
Attack Speed: 0.694 (+0% –> 51.0%) Mana: 297 lvl 1 –-> 977 lvl 18 Mana: 310 lvl 1-->1005 lvl 18 Armor: 24.9 lvl 1 –-> 84.4 lvl 18 Magic Resist: 32.1 lvl 1 –-> 53.4 lvl 18 Mana Regn: 7.2 lvl 1 –-> 14.8 lvl 18 Attack Range: 125 units Movement Speed: 350

Slightly better health and mana, nothing too drastic here. I need to think a little more about how much I actually want to change his base stats, they aren't as important as changing his kit around a bunch but they are still relevant.

Passive: Backstab The other Shiv!

Shaco deals 20% bonus damage when striking an enemy from behind with his basic attacks or Two-Shiv Poison.

After using an ability Shaco becomes very excited and will use both of his shivs in his next attack for bonus critical strike damage. This bonus physical damage is equal to 60%/70%/80%/90%/100%/120% (at levels 1/3/6/10/13/16) of Shaco's total attack damage in addition to 30% of his total AP. When attacking a target from behind, this attack will apply all on-hits a second time and do an additional 10% damage.

Cooldown: 3 seconds after the enhanced attack has been depleted. He can hold said attack for 3 seconds.

**Edit: I think 45%/60%/75%/90%/105%/120% is more fair. It gimps his early game in exchange for more mid game power. Less snowball potential but less reliant on snowballing. **

I think this passive will suit him well, his current critical strike animation is him stabbing an enemy with both of his shivs and that was what inspired this new passive. I got rid of his insane damage amp because it was holding back the rest of his kit. Someone needs to think of a better name for it though. This will also make his power curve much healthier.

Q: Deceive

~~Range: 400 ~~ Range: 450 Cost: 90 / 80 / 70 / 60 / 50 mana Cost: 70 mana at all levels Cooldown: 11 seconds

ACTIVE: Shaco instantly blinks to the target location and stealths for up to 3.5 seconds 3 seconds. ~~ also causing his next basic attack within 6 seconds 5 seconds to Critical strike icon critically strike for bonus critical damage.~~~~Bonus critical damage: 140%/160%/180%/200%/220% of your Attack Damage. ~~

New Effect: Shaco gains 15%/20%/25%/30%/35% [decaying] bonus movement speed for 1.5 seconds upon using Deceive or upon killing an enemy champion.

With the bonus damage after using Shaco's deceive removed, it leaves a lot of room for some improvement. I lowered the stealth duration and increased the range slightly to make positioning with Shaco a little bit easier and at the same time a little bit more important. The mana cost change was to keep him from relying heavily upon blue buff for the first 15-20 min of the game, currently Shaco can barely afford to gank without having to recall for mana if he doesn't have a blue buff.

As for the new effect, this was to encourage the hit and run assassin playstyle of Shaco and to compensate a little bit for the removal of pretty much half the ability.

W: Jack In The Box Range: 425 / 300 Cost: 50 / 55 / 60 / 65 / 70 mana Cooldown: 16 seconds

Active: Shaco summons a box at the target location that stealths after a 2-second delay 1 second delay and lasts for up to 60 seconds 60/90/120 seconds (at levels 1/11/16). If an enemy springs the trap, it opens and causes surrounding enemies to turn and flee while it attacks nearby enemies for up to 5 seconds. 7 seconds.

Flee Duration: 0.5 / 0.75 / 1 / 1.25 / 1.5 seconds Magic damage per attack: 35 / 50 / 65 / 80 / 95 (+ 20% AP) Magic damage per attack: 50/65/80/100/120 (+10% AP) (10% bonus AD)

New Effect: Shaco can now only have a maximum of 3/4/5 boxes placed (at levels 1/11/16) **New Effect: JiTBs now take 75% reduced AoE and DoT damage during the 1 second delay before they enter stealth. ** **New Effect: JiTBs now take 20%/25%/30%/35%/40% reduced damage from large monsters. ** New Effect: JiTBs now prioritize whoever Shaco is attacking first

This is to make boxes not completely useless for AD Shaco later into game while also not completely breaking AP Shaco.

E: Two-Shiv Poison

Range: 625 units Cost: 50 / 55 / 60 / 65 / 70 mana Cooldown: 8 seconds

Active: Shaco throws a dagger at the target enemy, dealing magic damage and slowing them for 3 seconds. 2 seconds. Damage: 50 / 90 / 130 / 170 / 210 (+ 100% AP) (+ 100% bonus AD) magic damage.

Slow amount: 40%/45%/50%/55%/60% [decays over 2 seconds]

Passive: While Two-Shiv Poison is not on cooldown, Shaco's basic attacks poison his targets, slowing them for 2 seconds and causing minions and monsters to occasionally miss their attacks.

Passive: Every 5 auto attacks Shaco's shivs blind a monster or minion causing them to miss their next attack. Attacking a target from behind builds up these stacks twice as fast.

Minion and monster miss chance: 20 / 22.5 / 25 / 27.5 / 30%

The slow change makes the slow far more potent but as a result is now a decaying slow as opposed to a perma slow and the total duration was reduced. His auto attacks no longer passively apply this slow as they currently do on live.

As for the monster and minion debuff part of his passive, I made it far more reliable than the RNG based passive we have on Shaco at the moment. This change encourages Shaco to always pay attention to his positioning similarly to the way the current Shaco does. It helps keep Shaco Shaco while also modernizing him and making him healthier for the game over all.

R: Hallucinate ~~Range: 250 ~~ Range: 375 Cost: 100 mana Cooldown: 100 / 90 / 80 seconds

Active: Shaco vanishes for 0.5 seconds, then creates a clone of himself that lives for up to 18 seconds and explodes upon its death, dealing magic damage to all enemies around it.

Active: Shaco vanishes for 0.5 seconds, then creates a clone of himself before reappearing a short distance away from where he was standing. His new position will be as close to your cursor as it can be, and his clone will have moved an equal distance in the opposite direction away from where Shaco was originally standing.

Clone stats: The clone lives up to 18 seconds and explodes upon its death, dealing magic damage to all enemies around it. When Shaco dies, his clone automatically explodes.

Damage: 300 / 450 / 600 (+ 100% AP) magic damage

Please give any and all feedback. I plan on posting a follow up thread soon! For the record, the only reason I didn't kill off AP Shaco was because roughly half the people I asked said I definitely shouldn't in any way and the rest said I should try to avoid it.

48 Comments

RiotRiotRepertoir8/14/2015, 6:28:06 AM12 votes

Cool ideas for Shaco! Few questions....

What do you think this new passive does for Shaco that makes him either play better/smoother or enhances his play? What do you think the net effect of the changes here is as it pertains to his contributions to a team in the early, mid, and late game?

I'm especially interested in knowing, from a Shaco main (and other Shaco mains) specifically, what is it that Shaco should be doing (and that Shaco players want to do) in the late game that makes them and their teammates feel good about having him on the team?

Workshop Shaco8/14/2015, 3:49:18 AM2 votes

Anyone else?

Workshop Shaco8/14/2015, 4:34:40 AM2 votes

boop

xl Kirito lx8/14/2015, 2:21:24 AM2 votes

Looking at it, a few things come to mind

  • 3 box maximum at level 1, means his first clear is going to be slower. idk how you play Shaco, but the 4 box start is really important to his early game imo.
  • The RNG factor on his E, 1 in 5 hits is effectively a 20% chance. Even using boxes to shift aggro, that's still 25% - 33% depending on clear speed. Again, might be personal preference, I'm the guy that gets 3 misses in a row.

Loss of DFG already hurt ap shaco, don't kill him off more plox. The biggest worry is that this'll turn out to be a flat buff to Shaco. I respect that he's not in a great position right now, but he's the type of champion that shouldn't necessarily be in a good position. Same way if people suggested Nunu buffs or Rengar buffs.

Sixofspades8/14/2015, 2:57:09 AM2 votes

In my opinion the changes to W seem a bit over tuned. Obviously as AD you will not be maxing W first however the base damage change on top of the increased duration is quite large. With the 1.6 attacks per second on the box you are increasing it from 8 attacks to 11, per box for a total of 45-75 base damage increase per box before the additional 10% bonus AD scaling.

On top of that a damage reduction buff from large monsters scaling to 40% buffing his target switching which is already a strong part of hit kit will result in him always finishing his jungle clears extremely healthy.

Aside from that I'm wondering if the proc rate of E should be changed on your rework idea as currently it synergises extremely bad with the Krugg buff as you will be both stunning and blinding camps at the same time leaving one of the buffs irrelevant.

Other than that cool ideas, they seem to emphasise Shaco's character well.

Ipols8/14/2015, 11:10:55 AM1 votes

I don't really like the passive, it's basically a small sheen, I think you can do better than that! Also isn't ap shaco nerfed? (just asking idk)

Meeks0118/14/2015, 2:23:05 PM1 votes

Also it's too easy to tell Shaco's clone from Shaco. Maybe reduce the damage the clone deals and make it cast Shaco's Deceive and Shiv when Shaco does. It's an instant give away when you want to do any chasing and use abilities. Also, Shaco's clone does have the buffs Shaco has so you can tell just by the rings around him.

Your rework is great. The only other thing I'd change is give Deceive something more to scale with rank. Really no reason to put points into it.

biomaster8/14/2015, 3:37:12 PM1 votes

As a Shaco top main I always felt he could be a bit more of a duelist. One of the things that makes Shaco so attractive to me is his outplay potential Real outplay potential. None of that flashy LC$ big plays garbage. But cold and efficient outplay. You don't see what Shaco is doing behind the scenes with his Q, W, and R but that's why I love him. That's why he's Shaco, he duels you with the odds in his favour. Late game he has the burst of an assassin but early game he has to rely on his wits and outplay potential.

What I would like to see in some sort of rework or update would be to see him given more tools to outplay early game (he has one of the highest difficultly ratings in the game after all) and something in his kit that keeps him from dropping off as hard a he does in late game.

As to the questions repertior asked early game he should be ganking fast and hard. If your or the enemy team isn't going "OMG SHACO'S EVERYWHERE!" then he isn't doing it right. Late game he should be all about picks. Getting in on that adc or mid laner and removing them from the equation. Preferably I would like him to get some sort of escape for making a successful pick (such as a reset on q after kill) but if you feel "getting out" should be Shaco's weakness then I certainly have no problem with that given you make sure he has adequate strengths with that weakness. His w although iconic champion wise is to me lack luster in game. Aside for the early game where they pose some threat I pretty much never use it past the 15 min mark once they get 1 shot (often before they even arm)

My issues with this suggested kit rework is how two-shiv poison still stays. I agree it's a good spell and Shaco certainly should be able to throw his knives, but Idk, the blind only affects monsters and the slow is kinda overkill cause he already has a blink on q and decent movement speed. I definitely think e should be a ranged spell (preferably targeted). Honestly not sure what that means to me. Basically i want two shiv poison as a ranged dmg spell, but maybe just think of something more rewarding/meaningful then the most common cc and a blind that only effects monster occasionally. (this may sound insane but I always felt e would make a good execute, kinda like a reverse Elise q that dealt bonus dmg based on missing health making the Q>AA>HYDRA>E combo more lethal)

Workshop Shaco8/14/2015, 5:57:36 PM1 votes

I might lower the passive numbers early on and make it scale faster to the same points as they do now. A bit of a weaker early game so he wont' have that much of an insane snowball potential but his mid game comes out better and his late game remains the same. Thoughts?

Shroom Junkie8/14/2015, 6:29:00 PM1 votes

Shaco seems like he's in a pretty good place right now, in my opinion.... He's really good early game, kinda mid-game, and falls off late. Kinda like Lee Sin. But maybe that's just me, I personally don't play too much Shaco so I can't say anything.

Workshop Shaco8/14/2015, 7:49:33 PM1 votes

I really want this to get more vision =(

The Loveless8/14/2015, 10:06:32 PM1 votes

It's ok but not much different. It won't make him that fun or different IMO.

Workshop Shaco8/15/2015, 6:09:24 PM1 votes

boop the snoop

ShinTwist8/18/2015, 4:38:36 PM1 votes

Or we could NOT ruin Shaco for people who like him. Shaco is perfect, don't change him.

Workshop Shaco8/14/2015, 12:47:54 AM1 votes

I lowered the W numbers again... seemed kinda strong.

Thust8/19/2015, 6:42:16 PM1 votes

You are tweaking the numbers but you're not suggesting any cool ideas imo. Well if you would be interested, these are mine:

  1. Give him an escape. Don't say this is crazy, just hear me out: whenever the enemy runs into one of his boxes they receive a debuff that states that when they get killed by shaco in the next 10seconds or so, his deceive resets. This would be nice to get that 'be-aware-of-shaco-feeling' like you have when you play vs a teemo (mushrooms). Maybe, if you feel like this would be too overpowered, just give him a 2 seconds stealth with speedbuff that would give him a little bit more breathing room when assassinating the backline. In soloQ your team ins't always that fast to react and the 2 second stealth would give them that slight timewindow to come save you etc.

  2. Controlable ult Like in the original post: when using your ult let your cursor deceide where and HOW FAR you and your clone (on the opposite side of your starting position) would appear from your original position. Mind there would be a minimum distance so that you cant stack the clone and yourself on the original place. The radius would be the same but it would allow us to be more in control and maybe use it as a more consistant blink when ur in that crappy spot where u just wished you had your deceive up.

  3. passive indicator Don't change the passive that much, just give us a tooltip only visable for the player that indicates where the backside if the champ is, kinda like fiora is now. Also add something as "flanking strikes" where you get part of the damage modifier (i.g. 10%) instead of the full 20% when striking from the side. Maybe even intigrate a %health of the target as true damage when striking from the back after deceive? Anyway i wouldn't remove his "backside" steroid, its very unique too him.

  4. the boxes limiting thingy is a bit meh... His jungle start is fast and thats how it should be. If the enemy team runs in activates your boxes your allready screwed. With the suggested changed, having an extra box to put on the outskirts of the river to prevent them from invading or to get your team to react faster to the invade sounds wonderfull.

Well these are my thoughts. I dont really hate on the TwoShivPoison that much because the icon and the idea behind it are all very "shaco-like" too me, just update the projectile animation (the spinning knife is kinda outdated).

Just a quick remark i would like to make towards potential riot-workers who might scroll throught this post in search of ideas: try to stay away from the exclamation mark that rengar and eve have. It might be unnecessary to say because unlike eve (who has perma stealth) and rengar ( who gets vision of the whole enemy team) shaco does not get any gamechanging info. The visible puff of smoke is all the warning that people would need vs shaco (imo).

Prospector Pete8/14/2015, 1:06:50 AM1 votes

I really like this, but the stuff that scales with Champion level on his W should be changed to scale with the ability level. And also how about the clone doesn't explode immediately when Shaco dies, and it continues to attack, but while dead he can activate his ult again to manually detonate it?

KONO RUBICK DA8/14/2015, 2:31:09 AM1 votes

I don't know if it is still the case, but riot promised a rework in season 3. Back then they said they would make his clone casting spells by R+Q/W/E (with a shared cooldown). They also said that they will rework his E, because it gives him to much toxicity and it is the least identity spell

Ultimatesplash8/14/2015, 5:19:57 AM1 votes

Personally, I do not like the box limit. I understand what you're saying about AP Shaco, but I think that it severely limits his jungling start, although i would say it's a huge stretch to say that it would make him need a short leash. No other champ has a limit to the amount of items they can place, or at least not that i know of.

TheDráco8/14/2015, 7:49:22 AM1 votes

I feel like some of these changes would make Shaco too powerful while others are much needed QoL changes.

Passive: This passive idea would become far too powerful with the right items e.g. build hydra, shiv, triforce, and IE and it would melt many champs.

Q: I agree that the mana cost is too high for low level and the speed boost would be nice for ganking. But I could see split push Shaco being potentially too powerful with this.

W: I dont think the boxes need a damage buff but I completely agree with the stealth faster/75% less aoe damage part.This would actually add utility to Shaco's teamfight whereas currently boxes in teamfights are 90% of the time non existent. I also dont think the reduced damage from jungle camps is necassary, a skilled shaco should not have issues.

E: A more consistent blind on jungle camps would be nice. I disagree that "permaslow" is even a problematic aspect of Shaco. Any champion with an escape or flash up can easily escape his AA range and stay that way. Sure if the champ lacks mobility and doesnt have flash up will be permaslowed but how is this an issue when dozens of champions can get the gank/kill on the same immobile/flashless champs.

R: This would be a nice change. Currently it is waaaay to easy to immediately know which is the clone. I would also add the buff animations to the clone as well.