Suggestion to fix anti-tank problems

Colgate Minuette··1 votes·518 views

People are asking for the Last Whisper item to be nerfed because of how fast it takes down tanks.

But nerfing the item would only buff EVERY CHAMPION WITHOUT TANK BUILDS.

So why nerf the item instead of just making a new one with a new mechanic?

The Last Whisper does +35% armor pen.

So let's say you make a new item, something that negates part of that.

Say a character does a total of 60% armor pen, for some odd reason. But the new item you introduce is anti-armor-pen.

Say the new item does 15% anti armor pen. This means that Last Whisper now does only 25% armor pen BUT only to the person who owns that item.

In this case, Vayne has armor pen total of 60% with her Last Whisper, runes, and so forth.

Azir over here does not have the item in question, therefore she will take down his health without his armor because his low amount of armor is run over by the 60% armor pen that Vayne has. Which allows Vaynes Last Whisper to be worth it against tanks and non tanks.

However Nautilus in the other corner DOES have this item. For the sake of organization I'll call the item Mr.Clean

Mr.Clean has +150 health +15% anti armor pen.

Nautilus buys his Mr.Clean and takes on Vayne, with her 60% armor pen. However because of Mr.Clean her armor pen is reduced to 55% and allows Nautilus further survivability against a champ who would normally almost completely ignore this 85% AD damage reduction.

I'm not very good with League math, so someone needs to come up with some calculations of how much damage they would do with and without these items in play. But I think this might solve the issue everyone is complaining about.

5 Comments

Done251 votes

The problem is that LW is too CHEAP. The gold cost of the armor it negates easily pays for the majority of LW's own cost.

67chrome1 votes

The problem is that LW is too CHEAP. The gold cost of the armor it negates easily pays for the majority of LW's own cost.

Cost efficiency is all about what you get relative to what else you can purchase.

Last Whisper is a complete waste of gold and superbly under-powered as a first major item.

It only starts being noteworthy as a 3rd major item.

A typical game only sees about 3 major items.

Average length is ~33 minutes from what data I could get a hold of, and LoL King's been tracking average gold per player at ~11,000 for months now. Which is three 3,000 gold items, 1,000 in boots, and 1,000 for starting items, wards, consumables, boot upgrades, and whatever you have in the bank when the game's over (unless you spent it when reviving while your Nexus is exploding or your team is actively demolishing your opponent's Nexus, in which case you don't get to use what you spent it on anyways).

I'm not sure I'd call Last Whisper too cheap. It's fairly expensive relative to the time frames you get to work with in an average game, only becoming notably worthwhile when the game needs to end and the mid-game tanky-derps, hyper-aggressive supports, or exceptional ganking tanks dropped the ball and didn't end it sooner.

DisasterSola1 votes

Yeah... Think about it. 15 armor is worth 300g Last whisper is 2300g 100 armor = -35 armor. 35 armor is worth about 650g

LW becomes extremely - extremely - gold efficient the more armor an enemy has. It makes armor worthless past a certain point in the game because the protection you need simply isnt there.

I think adding a new class of upgrades -which could be applied to any item which doesnt build further - would be a better idea. Say something like enhancements but for tanks.

(Note: An item may only have ONE rune) Vitality rune: +10% total HP (1000g)(Can only be applied to items which contain HP. Certain items are excluded) Null magic rune: reduces the effect of magic penetration by 10% (1500g)(Can only be applied to items which contain HP and MR penetration resistance rune: Reduces the effect of armor penetration by 15%(1500g) (Can only be applied to items which contain HP and Armor) penetration resistance rune II: Reduces the effect of armor penetration by 20% (2500g)(Can only be applied to items which contain only armor)

Are some examples. Adding a class of items which have %HP increase is also a good idea. Say re-work warmogs into a passive %HP healing item that gives 500HP and 40MR/Armor (2%HP regen per second, which ramps up 0.01 per two seconds while out of combat)

Then you can have something like "Faerie lords charm"; 800g (Ruby crystal+rejuvination bead+ gold) +200HP +10% total HP Unique passive: after being damaged, gain +10armor/MR for 5 seconds

Builds into: Mabs bauble 2000g (Faerie lords charm+ sighstone+ gold)) +400HP +15% total HP Unique active: Children of the queen: Holds 3 charges. Activating this item allows the placement of a "changling". Changlings grant the same vision as a ward, last up to five minutes, and explode when discovered, dealing 5% of bonus HP as magic damage to enemies within 300 range of the changling.

Which builds into: Sword of oberon (Mabs bauble+ raptor cloak+ gold) 3800g +800HP +20% total HP +50Mr +50armor Unique passive: Sword of the king: If an ally attacks the same enemy, they gain 1% of your total HP as bonus physical damage. Only the ally who attacks the soonest after you deals bonus damage. Unique passive: point runner: Grants 50% movement speed which builds up over two seconds when near turrets or void gates

Stephenizgod1 votes

Hmm i dont have a problem with LW shredding tanks, it is suppose to. I have a problem with how easy it is to obtain and how it doesnt create any meaningful choices, want to kill everything faster? Build LW. It should only effect bonus armor, that way you need to decide whether to kill tanks or kill squishies, not both. Then maybe Assassins will stop buying it, they shouldnt be able to kill Tanks anyways. Unfortunately this isnt a popular idea with ADC and Assassin mains :(

Miku Lv991 votes

LW seems like something that your ADC should get in order to kill tanks a lot faster. But right now, it's and item for assassins. It should be changed so that it's not an assassin item at all. Assassins should be good at killing squishy targets, not be good at killing all targets. And right now, LW works in a way where Riven, Zed, Talon, Pantheon, etc., really almost every physical damage assassin, seems like they use it.

I'd say LW should only work on auto attacks and maybe a few other things if they apply on-hit effects or something like that. Now, to compensate, we could have a new armor pen item that's the assassin version of LW. It would be like LW but give a lot of flat armor pen and not and % so that it's only good for killing squishies like assassins should be.

At least then it wouldn't just be every AD champion that isn't a tank or mostly a tank always just gets a LW since it's so good.

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