What if Camille's Hookshot range scaled with rank?
Specifically, the bonus distance towards Champions.
Specifically, the bonus distance towards Champions.
What if it had a higher cooldown, like all other spells of it's caliber?
What if it lost it's knock up and wasn't a completely counter to
and the likes?
What if it didn't give Camille extra attack speed even if her E was juked?
It doesn't knock up lol it just stuns.
It doesn't knock up lol it just stuns.
Sigh.
How bout you check your sources before correcting me?
I'm a rank 6 Camille, she stuns you she doesn't knock you up.
I'm a rank 6 Camille, she stuns you she doesn't knock you up.
And I'm a rank 7 Riven, stuns don't stop dashes and Camille's E stops my third Q. You might be a bit confused, since it's both a stun and a knock up, unlike Riven's knock up.
Maybe I'm wrong but I'm like 90% sure it doesn't knock up.
She slightly displaces you -- you can especially see it on monsters and minions.
Yes it pushes them back a little, not a knock up.
Realistically, yes. But, the way this game is coded, it counts as a knockup for a split second (all displaces flag you as airborn) -- enough to interrupt dashes and give Yas a chance to ult.
So it's not a knock up it's just Riot's spaghetti code?
It's both. It technically is a knockup (a very short one), but it's due to Riot's incompetence (or unwillingness) to fix their coding.
It is intended to be a knock-up and it works like a knock-up, properly applying the airborne status to the target.
official Riot description of Camille's Hookshot:
Camille pulls herself to a wall, leaping off and knocking up enemies upon landing.
Any form of displacement is considered a knock up in coding. It's why Yasuo can ult off of Darius's E.
Im sure I have seen Yasuo ult off of her E
Hi, here goes the official Riot description of Camille's Hookshot:
Camille pulls herself to a wall, leaping off and knocking up enemies upon landing.
What if quinn e wasn't a middle finger to melee's?
Pretty sure she only gets attack speed when she lands her stun
[{quoted}](name=Mostro Gallo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RdoWbHhv,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2017-01-20T20:40:28.980+0000)
Pretty sure she only gets attack speed when she lands her stun
Nope, just needs to dash towards a champion.
Source: Someone discussing a Camille vs Fiora match up, and talking about how once Camille E'd near them but not to them, to juke the Riposte, then fucked her with the attack speed.
The tooltip states she needs to hit a unit. Why are you basing your statement off of an anecdotal incident/claim that you did not even witness?
[{quoted}](name=Mostro Gallo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RdoWbHhv,comment-id=0000000200000000,timestamp=2017-01-20T21:14:34.280+0000)
The tooltip states she needs to hit a unit. Why are you basing your statement off of an anecdotal incident/claim that you did not even witness?
Just read it. Pretty sure minions and monsters count as units, so...
Quinn actually counters Camille. Her blind makes it really hard to get her true damage off, thus making her damage go down tremendously and even further getting her killed cause she's getting shot the entire time she tries to run away. Also, the lack of a stun on her E would make it nearly impossible to get kills. I main Camille now and its really hard getting kills without stunning the target first; especially when they have really high and consistent damage like a Yasuo. As for the OP's suggestion, that would likely severely hurt her too.
In all honesty, people usually complain about Camille being OP when they're solo pushing a lane and she comes out of nowhere and kills them. YOU DON'T SOLO PUSH WITH A CAMILLE ON THE ENEMY TEAM! Camllle isn't broken (at least not nearly as much as people say). With how many counters she has, it can actually be really hard to play her most of the time, and quite honestly, I've never fought a Camille that was actually hard or annoying to fight. The current Nerf they did to Camille was fine, and is really all she needs. Any more and she's going to be UP.
Quinn actually counters Camille. Her blind makes it really hard to get her true damage off, thus making her damage go down tremendously and even further getting her killed cause she's getting shot the entire time she tries to run away. Also, the lack of a stun on her E would make it nearly impossible to get kills. I main Camille now and its really hard getting kills without stunning the target first; especially when they have really high and consistent damage like a Yasuo. As for the OP's suggestion, that would likely severely hurt her too.
In all honesty, people usually complain about Camille being OP when they're solo pushing a lane and she comes out of nowhere and kills them. YOU DON'T SOLO PUSH WITH A CAMILLE ON THE ENEMY TEAM! Camllle isn't broken (at least not nearly as much as people say). With how many counters she has, it can actually be really hard to play her most of the time, and quite honestly, I've never fought a Camille that was actually hard or annoying to fight. The current Nerf they did to Camille was fine, and is really all she needs. Any more and she's going to be UP.
Uh... no, because Quinn is so squishy that Camille's E+auto+Q reset + auto will chunk her to half. Then when Camille ults, Quinn can't kite her or dissengage. Why run when you outdps her in a flat out fight? Q gives movespeed, at least as much as Quinn's W, I think.
I'm not saying remove the stun - I'm saying remove the knock up which accompanies it. I'd also prefer if they made it like a sped up Aatrox Q (ground targeted), so it would be more precise, instead of practically being a Vi Q.
Laning against Camille as a squishy/semi-squishy is total BS.
They need to remove the Attack Speed boost OR increase the CD a lot or Remove the damage or Decrease the range or a mix of some of that.
As it stands its MASSIVELY Broken
They need to remove the Attack Speed boost OR increase the CD a lot or Remove the damage or Decrease the range or a mix of some of that.
As it stands its MASSIVELY Broken
Her base AS is a joke...check the AS of the other bruisers, then talk. It's all about the combo, they design champions now this way.
If it did, she may as well not even have the ability. If you skip maxing Q, you do very low damage. If you skip maxing W, you can't really go for extended trades, since everyone outruns you. With this change, Camille wouldn't be able to really do anything except maybe auto someone once -- if they let her walk up to that range since you can't max E. That would make Camille not even worth playing.
She doesn't need more nerfs -- she can't duel a good portion of the roster as is, and only really excels at picking people (and even then, anyone with any amount of sustain just ruins her day, and she can't do anything to them). Just go read this if you're having so many issues.
I could explain how to specifically play Vlad against her, if you want. Rank 7 on both champs.
If it did, she may as well not even have the ability. If you skip maxing Q, you do very low damage. If you skip maxing W, you can't really go for extended trades, since everyone outruns you. That would make Camille not even worth playing.
It's still an attack speed boost, stun, and dash. It's no weaker from flat out asking for nerfs to her E range.
Now, think about Camille's kit for a second. What does the AS boost do for her? Maybe one more auto? She doesn't build a lot of AD (Triforce into Titanic most frequently), so one more auto isn't really going to do much for her. She needs to wait for her second Q to be ready, and no amount of AS is going to change that.
The stun and dash are the only way she's going to actually catch someone. She has really low base MS and AA range (125), and short of her W, she has no way to keep up with people. If she couldn't jump on you, she would never touch you. So, if she's forced to max E first, (in order to gain that range back) what would she really do? Her Q would do so little damage it's laughable, and her W wouldn't do any damage either. So she'd just wet noodle you all day, or max Q and never actually do anything until she maxes both her E and Q.
That's why her R feels so strong, because it allows her to stand right on top of you. It gives her a few seconds to almost ignore her glaring weakness. She can still be kited in her ult, but she can stay within range to use her W on you and potentially do some real damage.
Now, think about Camille's kit for a second. What does the AS boost do for her? Maybe one more auto? She doesn't build a lot of AD (Triforce into Titanic most frequently), so one more auto isn't really going to do much for her. She needs to wait for her second Q to be ready, and no amount of AS is going to change that.
The stun and dash are the only way she's going to actually catch someone. She has really low base MS and AA range (125), and short of her W, she has no way to keep up with people. If she couldn't jump on you, she would never touch you. So, if she's forced to max E first, (in order to gain that range back) what would she really do? Her Q would do so little damage it's laughable, and her W wouldn't do any damage either. So she'd just wet noodle you all day, or max Q and never actually do anything until she maxes both her E and Q.
That's why her R feels so strong, because it allows her to stand right on top of you. It gives her a few seconds to almost ignore her glaring weakness. She can still be kited in her ult, but she can stay within range to use her W on you and potentially do some real damage.
Her base AD is pretty damn good, and attack speed is always super helpful in duels. The 'one more auto' only really applies if you're running away, and if you're running away, well, she already won the trade didn't she?
Her E is fine without the extra range. You could use it as it is not facing champions and do fine with your gapcloser.
So, what you're saying is that she should ONLY be able to do anything when she has her ult up? Now that just doesn't feel fair to me.
Her E without the extra range is kind of garbage for chasing people, and is only good for running away. You flip like, two inches off the wall.
So, what you're saying is that she should ONLY be able to do anything when she has her ult up? Now that just doesn't feel fair to me.
Her E without the extra range is kind of garbage for chasing people, and is only good for running away. You flip like, two inches off the wall.
Hey dude, that's saying Riven's E+Q gapcloser is two inches. It's really not that bad.
It is that bad actually. Riven can dash without condition, from every place she pleases. Without the extra range towards enemies, the skill doesn't work as a reliable gap closer (which is a trademark for diver) at all.
Try her yourself and dash from the wall without an enemy nearby. Without the extra range, you couldn't close the gap to someone who is standing in the middle of the lane. And it is highly telegraphed with the hook. Take the extra range away and Camille has no way to do her job.
It is that bad actually. Riven can dash without condition, from every place she pleases. Without the extra range towards enemies, the skill doesn't work as a reliable gap closer (which is a trademark for diver) at all.
Try her yourself and dash from the wall without an enemy nearby. Without the extra range, you couldn't close the gap to someone who is standing in the middle of the lane. And it is highly telegraphed with the hook. Take the extra range away and Camille has no way to do her job.
And why should Camille able to dash to someone in the middle of the lane if she's not near them? She should have to give something up for a Vi style dash with a stun and attack speed boost.
If she wants to go in on someone, she can actually use the first half of the dash and throw it to the wall, then dash. It's telegraphed, but it's much more fair than right now, where she stands super close to the wall to give you very little time to react, then still dashes to you from so far away.
You don't think it through. If she doesn't get the bonus range towards enemies, the skill is useless. She won't be able to do her job anymore if you do this.
If that short range for the wall dash, there will be no enemy you are able to reach with it. What are her other options to reach the enemy? Walk straight to them? Good idea, except that she is going to explode in 1 second.
The change you are suggestion here is removing her identity as a diver. Other divers have the ability to dash from everywhere they want in every direction they want. Camille is bond to a wall. That fact is dictating you that she NEEDS the extra range, otherwise you can delete the skill and replace it with something else.
By the way... how is it not fair if she stands next to a wall? You see her so.... just go to the other side of the lane so she can't reach you? If you stand in the middle while she is next to the wall, that means you misplayed.
Except it already pulls her from a screen away.
The idea was to crutch her early game a little. Gangplank's barrels don't get the 0.5 tick until level 13, to prevent him from being an early game menace. I'm personally not having any troubles against her since I have a pretty good idea of how she works.
I actually like her a lot, I just don't get a chance to play her often because of banned/someone else picked her/there's a better pick for my team. I havent actually laned against one as Vlad yet, though I imagine it's one of those lanes I'd have to max Pool second.
The thread wasnt a "I want her nerfed because I struggle against her", I just personally still think she's on the strong side and it might have something to do with how mobile she can be. I could be wrong.
She already has a really weak early game. Her damage is dependent on her Q, which adds a VERY small amount of damage to her auto, and makes a portion of it turn into true damage (starting a 40%, working up to 80 based on level). So, early game she has next to no damage, and until she finishes Titanic and Sheen, she's not going to do a whole ton either.
Sure, she's incredibly mobile, but she needs to be to be functional. One, tiny bit of CC will totally throw off her combo and make her do nothing, and she can't fight more than one person reliably (unless you're stupidly fed). So, if she can't zip around and stay on top of the person she's trying to kill (assuming no one is there to body block or peel), she really can't kill anything -- and that's her job, to jump on people and kill them if she isn't peeled off them.
If it's her mobility you have an issue with, we should also call for nerfs on Lee's mobility, Irelia's, Diana's, Zac's, Riven's, Quinn's, Win Nhao's, and a lot of other champs, since their success is largely based on their mobility.
Early game yeah, Q is barely enough to win a trade. It's super powerful lategame with nearly 700 true damage procs, but I agree.
You don't need to defend her to me, I adore her design. I think she's one of the coolest recent Champions, along with Kled and Jhin. She might be a tad overtuned or overloaded, but again, I could be wrong.
If it's her mobility you have an issue with, we should also call for nerfs on Lee's mobility, Irelia's, Diana's, Zac's, Riven's, Quinn's, Win Nhao's
So, it's not so much her mobility I have an issue with (maybe her rank 5 CD is a bit too short given that she gets at least 20% CDR from items, but that's it). Basically everyone you mentioned other than Zac and Diana, I would be 110% happy with nerfing their mobility, but that's another discussion.
Though, given how you've presented yourself, I'd love to discuss that - and more - with you.
If it did, she may as well not even have the ability. If you skip maxing Q, you do very low damage. If you skip maxing W, you can't really go for extended trades, since everyone outruns you. With this change, Camille wouldn't be able to really do anything except maybe auto someone once -- if they let her walk up to that range since you can't max E. That would make Camille not even worth playing.
She doesn't need more nerfs -- she can't duel a good portion of the roster as is, and only really excels at picking people (and even then, anyone with any amount of sustain just ruins her day, and she can't do anything to them). Just go read this if you're having so many issues.
I could explain how to specifically play Vlad against her, if you want. Rank 7 on both champs.
Holyshit it's almost as if you would be required to make important build decision on the fly as apposed to getting everything handed to you. Working for a Victory must be hard for you
I'd rather they up the cool down of it during the later levels. Otherwise, I feel like it's not terribly op till late.
Riot stated they don't like changing spell ranges throughout the game because it's too much for opponents to have to keep track of. They only make exceptions for ultimates.