Riot just... I can't even say how much is wrong with this. Please explain.
Edit: Oh my god people I understand sight stone and trinkets are getting buffs in return, but they shouldn't entirely remove the consumable sight ward from the shop. Same deal goes for the mana.
Puddytat6 votesI start almost every game as support with a stealth ward and mana potions. I have to play safer, but I can use my skills more often and have full river vision up till 4'30". This is a meaningful, strategic choice. You know, the type of thing they are always talking about when making item changes.
I am very unhappy about being forced to buy "the same thing as everybody else".
Krigjer2 votesI start almost every game as support with a stealth ward and mana potions. I have to play safer, but I can use my skills more often and have full river vision up till 4'30". This is a meaningful, strategic choice. You know, the type of thing they are always talking about when making item changes.
I am very unhappy about being forced to buy "the same thing as everybody else".
I start 2 wards and a gold generating item. That gives me six minutes of safe farming and engaging, which fits my playstyle, and gold quint pages mean I can afford a sightstone and usually some mana regen/potions by the time my first two wards run out on the first back.
The river vision is what I worry about. This change essentially means I'll have to rely on my adc to help me ward, and in my ELO, I don't trust them to use their wards smartly.
I wish they'd stop changing warding to shift the responsibility to the entire team. Everyone in LCS might upgrade their trinkets and spam wards, but in my experience, I have to BEG teammates to use their FREE wards.
Zone of Endless4 votesYellow trinkets provide two wards at the start. They're also upgraded automatically for free at level 9.
No one buys mana pots. Mana pots are useless and a waste of money.
Archon X15 votesWHO DOESN'T BUY MANA POTS
I BUY 2 BISCUITS AND 2 MANA POTS ON SORAKA AND 3 BISCUITS AND 1 MANA POT ON BRAUM AND JANNA
STOP SAYING NOBODY DOES THINGS
Zone of Endless1 votes[{quoted}](name=Archon X,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RXkkpXGO,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-10-28T20:25:40.591+0000)
WHO DOESN'T BUY MANA POTS
I BUY 2 BISCUITS AND 2 MANA POTS ON SORAKA AND 3 BISCUITS AND 1 MANA POT ON BRAUM AND JANNA
STOP SAYING NOBODY DOES THINGS
and that's all you'll ever buy for the duration of the game. Health pots on the other hand you'll most likely buy them until the 20 minutes mark.
Archon X8 votesso with no mana pots I will have less sustain as a utility support
and no green wards so if I have to back with less than 800 gold my lane is fucked on vision
SOUNDS FUN
Zone of Endless2 votes[{quoted}](name=Archon X,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RXkkpXGO,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-28T20:35:47.438+0000)
so with no mana pots I will have less sustain as a utility support
and no green wards so if I have to back with less than 800 gold my lane is fucked on vision
SOUNDS FUN
Managing mana isn't hard. Many people learn it and realize how useless mana pot is.
yellow trinkets provide two wards at the start.
Archon X5 votesBRO HOW DO I MANAGE MANA WHEN THE ADC IS A SCUMBAG WHO I NEED TO KEEP SAVING EVERY 10 SECONDS
you're just trolling at this point tbh
The Taco Kat2 votesWhat about the older champions who heavily struggle with mana costs? God forbid they keep an item that costs 35g so they can be useful for an extra stun or skillshot.
Zone of Endless2 votesWhat about the older champions who heavily struggle with mana costs? God forbid they keep an item that costs 35g so they can be useful for an extra stun or skillshot.
They will up the base mana regen on champ
pantheon jungle who donates blue? need mana pots for days.
I have never seen pantheon jg go buy blue pot
2Charmnot2Charm1 votesManaging mana isn't hard. Many people learn it and realize how useless mana pot is.
I like to see you manage your mana vs zed.
AMYS GRAVE1 votespantheon jungle who donates blue? need mana pots for days.
The Taco Kat6 votesYeah, having lane sustain is totally useless.
Also, RIP for me being one of the few people who would actually upgrade the totem.
Zone of Endless2 votesYeah, having lane sustain is totally useless.
Never said lane sustain is useless. Mana pots is useless because you're paying 35g to cast one or two more spells. You never said "oh shit, should've popped that mana pot" when you're about to die. Health>Mana.
The Taco Kat3 votesI actually do say that. Especially because of the reason that I play Graves a lot. His mana costs are high, and I normally grab one mana pot if I have a tiny bit of gold left after first back.
Blitzcrank is also going to need some lower mana costs, as well as many other supports/heavy caster mids.
Zone of Endless1 votesI actually do say that. Especially because of the reason that I play Graves a lot. His mana costs are high, and I normally grab one mana pot if I have a tiny bit of gold left after first back.
Yep. Now let compare how many health pot you buy to mana pot.
The Taco Kat2 votesYou buy more HP pots because it increases how long you can live. However, if you are oom but have full HP as Anivia for example, don't expect to be even the slightest bit relevant. Mana potions may be a "waste" in your eyes, but they have helped me pick up many kills.
Celeste Benal2 votesAgreed. Except Blitzcrank. Rust in pieces, trolling POS champ thats constantly on free rotation.
Celeste Benal2 votesUntil lack of mana gets you killed because you couldn't cast that stun, slow, etc.
SorryBoysImLes2 votesNever said lane sustain is useless. Mana pots is useless because you're paying 35g to cast one or two more spells. You never said "oh shit, should've popped that mana pot" when you're about to die. Health>Mana.
1 or 2 more spells means the difference between a kill or surviving in lane. Worth 35G
AMYS GRAVE4 votesI almost always buy mana pots as supports, i'm not really sure AP poke supports can function without them. Heck on nami i buy 3 mana + 1 biscuit.
Celeste Benal2 votesMana pots work just fine for supports like sona or soraka that need to spam spells.
Zone of Endless1 votes[{quoted}](name=Celeste Benal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RXkkpXGO,comment-id=00010003,timestamp=2015-10-28T21:24:17.065+0000)
Mana pots work just fine for supports like sona or soraka that need to spam spells.
Mana pot is still just as useless afterward. Mana can easily be managed but I guess that's another issue.
A Miss Fortune1 votesI usually buy 1 Health and 1 Mana potion on most Mid laners (Cassiopeia, Syndra, Ahri, etc). It also works really well with a lot of Supports.
Puynsi3 votesIts not even out and its already a bad decision. http://i.imgur.com/FxHMReB.png
Niyumi2 votesThis is just going to nerf junglers into the ground. : /
Anyone who doesn't run Runeglaive has mana issues if you clear fast and gank a lot -- and with these changes, you won't be able to give blue to your laners as much, or you'll be forced to back repeatedly, falling even further behind in exp and gold. >.>
3tyson1 votesHuh what going on in here ?
GetBoomedOn1 votesThey said that they were deleting them to be able to upscale mana regen. Maybe csing will refund 10 or so mana like a built in dorans ring? Maybe everyone across the board will have up scaled mana regen. I dunno. I'm curious to see what's gonna happen.
Spicay1 votessomething something context something etc not all changes posted something etc
Chaotic Reks1 votes"strategic diversity"
TurquoiseYoshi1 votesAs for stealth wards, it's mostly just because the trinkets are getting a major boost.
For mana pots, I'm guessing there will be new items in the starting item set that have to do with mana sustain. I can't think that they're removing early mana sustain completely.
Guy Fox Teemo1 votesWho said they removed stealth wards? They remove the ability to BUY them in the shop, for just 75 Gold. Did you even CONSIDER anything else they said? Also with the mana potions they are going to do an overhaul on which champions actually needed the mana potions for the early game
The Taco Kat1 votesI said they are removing stealth wards. And if you are going to be technical about it, sightstone places a "ghost ward."
Chromatic Eagle1 votesThey're explaining it in the Dev corner. Read that, Red Tracker, or Surrender @ 20 in a few hours.
NavyDivea1 votesIm pretty sure they said there were going to be permenent versions added to the game and it would help them balance mana regen for all champions, which would more than likely increase across most of the board by a small amount, the new items may even be geared towards this. As far as stealth wards you can always have 3 on the field with yellow trink so its not that big of a loss. Honestly it would give junglers a bit more surprise factor in the early game since you cant just spam them to stay safe until 9. Your jungler could also buy a sight stone to help the team.
Silents4291 votesAnd. To compensate, trinket is getting further buffs, Pink wards are getting lower costs, sightstones won't be a trash item mid/late game.
And for mana any champion suffering is getting compensation buffs.
My god did you even read all the notes or decide to start bitching as soon as possible?
The Taco Kat1 votesActually, yes, I did. Did you assume that I was being ignorant and your first reaction to that was to be an asshole about it?
Silents4291 votesRemember the part where you bitch and then end with please explain?
And then I tell you the explanation for them, and you act like I am the one being stupid here.
The Taco Kat1 votesAnyways, the "please explain," was being used in the question of "why is it after 5 seasons that you have just now decided to remove the consumable?" The item has existed for 5(+) years, and was never a really big balance issue. I wanted to know why they decide it is worth removing and changing two items for.
I asked for an explanation and I get a guy who says I'm bitching and am apparently stupid. Gotta love our community.
Silents4291 votesBecause they did explain, you bitched about the change and didn't read the following context for it.
But since you are still being to stupid to read a little further
"Xypherous is running point on this change, but he's also gone through all champions who rely on mana pots to be functional and has buffed either their base mana regen or their base mana pool. In the future we can also keep a firmer grasp on mana gating and/or champions whose costs are just too damn high."
The Taco Kat1 votesThank you for pointing this out in the rudest possible manner. By the way, I checked your profile on the boards and I can't find one thing you have said in a positive manner.
iHeim 1 votesfor one, i use mana pots all game, because i go off meta ap supports, so i literally use them all game for team battles because im a support and spam a lot of ap, and i dont use mana regen, so, bad idea
Skias1 votesIt's great decision. Trim down the outrageous sustain from people running Flask and a crap ton of pots.
Kazaashi1 votesDid no one read where they were buffing flasks and giving them upgrades to compensate for the removal of mana pots and the price increase in health pots?
You will still be able to have mana sustain from a consumable, it just won't be a mana pot.
Learn to read completely before complaining.
The Taco Kat1 votesI DID read that. But there is no reason to remove the mana potion [alone], unless they decide to remove the health potion as well (which I doubt they will).
Kazaashi1 votesI DID read that. But there is no reason to remove the mana potion [alone], unless they decide to remove the health potion as well (which I doubt they will).
They stated the reason was that the Mana potions made it hard to balance so they are shifting the Mana regen into the champions themselves and into the flasks. Basically the amount of mana you go back was too much so they are shifting it around. That was the reason.
The Taco Kat1 votesThank you for being more civilized than others for explaining it to me. I guess I missed that part while reading it.
