The only thing that should stop Urgot's R2 should be Undying Rage.

Bârd·Sep 26, 2018·1 votes·1,292 views

Four things need to change in the code.

Pull duration changed from 1.5 seconds to "as long as it takes, usually 1.5 seconds".
CC changed from suppression+pull+Untargetability to suppression+full silence (including items like QSS and spells like Cleanse)+Pull+untargetability
Effect changed from "near infinite true damage" to "death".
Chains are no longer launched on recast. They are launched on first cast, and merely reeled in on second cast.

ult grants him immunity to death, so he gets pulled in and nothing happens.

Otherwise, if you get pulled in you die.

You wouldn't be able to QSS/cleanse it anymore. You wouldn't be able to bypass it with an invuln. You'll have to use that to stay out of execute range. CC immunity would only delay the pull until the end of CC duration. Projectile destruction wouldn't work, to Yasuo's dismay and Braum's pleasure.

18 Comments

PrimaquariusSep 26, 20186 votes

"Oh no, counterplay, kill it with fire"

Moody PSep 26, 20182 votes

pretending urgot R doesn't have 20 different ways to counter play it

boricCentaur1Sep 26, 20183 votes

urgot does not need buffs and having things like that make he's ult take skill since you have to think about when to use it but it is not fun to play as urgot when that happens to maybe qss should not cleanse it.

FrozenFrostFyreSep 26, 20182 votes

But why, the second part of his r is intended counterplay. The ability is 0 risk as is right now. I wouldn't mind maybe SOME of the changes you meantioned if the ranged was reduced by a fuckton(to melee range), but what you are suggesting is nothing but a tauntrum about the existance of counterplay in the game.

BârdSep 26, 20181 votes

It already has counterplay.

If you dodge the spell, it does nothing. If you get hit, but you don't get brought to 25% health, it doesn't execute you. If you get hit and you get brought to 25% health, but your team manages to kill Urgot within that 1.5 second duration, it still doesn't execute you.

There are plenty of champions who can counter Urgot by beating his ult in one of these ways, and that's fine. Vayne tumbled out of the missile's way? Fine. Soraka kept the victim at half HP through your DPS? Fine. Veigar oneshot you while you were grinding down your target? Fine.

Thing is, if you're in a situation where you're being dragged into the grinder with no chance of killing Urgot, you've already fucked up enough that you shouldn't be getting another chance.

What's especially annoying is that most of the tools that can be used to stop his R2 after it happens can also be used to stop it before it happens, meaning that they've already fucked up if they have to use it to stop an R2 that is already happening.

Not counting Braum or any revives, these are the things that just hard counter the ult.

Alistar Bard (with difficulty) Camille Ekko Fiora Elise Evelynn Fizz Kayn Lissandra Maokai RekSai Ryze (with a good deal of luck) Shaco TahmKench Vladimir Xayah Zed Gangplank Kayle Kalista (her oathsworn) Kindred Morgana Olaf Rengar Taric Tryndamere Yasuo Sion Malphite Hecarim Kled (if you've engineered your build such that 25% health happens right as you lose Skaarl) item 3140 item 3157

Not positive that 100% of these work or that this includes all of them, since the interactions with this spell get really weird at times, but still.

Again, I'm fine with these effects being used to make it hard or impossible for Urgot to bring the target into execution range, but there comes a point where you should just be dead, and about a quarter of the roster has an innate way to ignore that.

FrozenFrostFyreSep 28, 20181 votes

they made an ability that not only does 50 / 175 / 300 (+ 50% AD) physical damage, but also executes them if they get below 25% hp. do you not understand how fucking overpowered this ability is on paper? and now you complain that there is counter play to such a broken ability, most of which is FAIR counter play such as EXTREMELY well timed dodging considered you mention everything that can potentially dodge the ult chain cast instead of ONLY the things that break suppression.

I hope you never have complained about the balance team, because you fucking suck at a it too.

King LegoSep 26, 20182 votes

As someone who mains Urgot... This is a big no no...

"Pull duration changed from 1.5 seconds to "as long as it takes, usually 1.5 seconds"."

Pull duration makes zero sense to me.

"CC changed from suppression+pull+Untargetability to suppression+full silence (including items like QSS and spells like Cleanse)+Pull+untargetability"

That's just wrong man. QSS is a counter and it's supposed to be available since it's an item that removes something like Urgot's recast.

"Effect changed from "near infinite true damage" to "death"."

I don't think there is much of a difference.

"Chains are no longer launched on recast. They are launched on first cast, and merely reeled in on second cast."

Okay, the chains appear when the target has no hp left. But when Urgot's ulti hits a target but is low enough to be executed but not low enough to automatically trigger it, it's up to you to recast it, and it's often very useful since it will give you time to dive in enemy team and fear them all. That ulti can turn the team fight to your favor and having it without 2nd recast is just a bad idea.

What on earth are you trying to imply here? To me, you're like saying "i love my champion! and i don't want any counterplay against him!" And given that you saying only Tryndamere can counter Urgot's R, you can pretty much ban him in champ select and you'll have the luxury life in laning phase and game. The level of bias in you is quite disturbing really.

BârdSep 26, 20181 votes

They are pulled in over 1.5 seconds. Olaf and Morgana can pop their CC immunity, wait out the duration of the spell, and they've just rendered Urgot's ult useless. Fiora can just riposte when the chains hit her. If she does this by blocking the Drill that would be one thing, but it's also not useless. The proposal is to have the pull continually reapplied until they reach Urgot.

The QSS counter is completely unnecessary. "Dodge the spell" "Don't get brough to 25% health" "Kill Urgot before your buddy gets ground to death" That's enough counterplay.

There is a difference. "Near infinite true damage" means they can still survive via invulnerability (Taric R, Kayle R). Those are strong enough a counter as is, since you can just use that to not be brought into the threshold in the first place. "Death" means that unless they're explicitly made immune to death (Trynd, Kindred, Revives) they will die.

The second recast would still happen, it's just that it only reels them in instead of launching chains.

King LegoSep 26, 20182 votes

{quoted}

They are pulled in over 1.5 seconds. Olaf and Morgana can pop their CC immunity, wait out the duration of the spell, and they've just rendered Urgot's ult useless. Fiora can just riposte when the chains hit her. If she does this by blocking the Drill that would be one thing, but it's also not useless. The proposal is to have the pull continually reapplied until they reach Urgot.

The QSS counter is completely unnecessary. "Dodge the spell" "Don't get brough to 25% health" "Kill Urgot before your buddy gets ground to death" That's enough counterplay.

There is a difference. "Near infinite true damage" means they can still survive via invulnerability (Taric R, Kayle R). Those are strong enough a counter as is, since you can just use that to not be brought into the threshold in the first place. "Death" means that unless they're explicitly made immune to death (Trynd, Kindred, Revives) they will die.

The second recast would still happen, it's just that it only reels them in instead of launching chains.

Olaf and Morgana more or less counter Urgot anyway. So you want Urgot's counters not counter him anymore? Depending on the build at least, you don't even always need your ulti. I've never seen a Fiora use your spell immunity spell after being hit by Urgot's R. Yet again, as above, depending on the build, you don't always need the ulti.

"The QSS counter is completely unnecessary. "Dodge the spell" "Don't get brough to 25% health" "Kill Urgot before your buddy gets ground to death" That's enough counterplay."

Give me 1 good reason why i should even take you seriously. I'm not even going to check your rank or anything, but you are probably the most biased dude I have ever seen in the history of bias. You're literally saying that only 1 thing should counter Urgot's R! That's literally going to be unbalanced and unhealthy for the game, and as an Urgot main, i refuse this.

Boo hoo man. Urgot is getting countered. Play him well, know him well, and know his builds well and you won't even need his Ulti. Here, word of advice: item 3142 along with tanky build, you won't even need your ulti. Not even Morgana shield can save the enemy. All you need is E+W or Q+W and finish.

BârdSep 26, 20181 votes

I'm not saying that only one thing should counter Urgot's ult.

I said numerous times that I'm 100% fine with several counters existing.

I do maintain, however, that the only thing that "Death Immunity" is the only thing that should let you tank his execute unscathed.

Even if I don't include anything that can kill him during the ult's cast time, this still leaves the following things that counter it

Any form of heal, shield, revive, or defensive steroid that could buy you enough time to survive his ult.
Any form of mobility that could let you dodge the initial spell or get away from Urgot for long enough that he can't bring you to the health threshold.
Any form of CC that could open or maintain a gap between you and Urgot.
Anything that blocks the initial spell.
Anything that reduces the slow, letting you run away.
Death immunity.

That list includes:

Every champion in the game except for Volibear, who still has the traits of CC, durability, and mobility, but not in a way that is useful here if he himself is the target.
Most meta summoner spells.
A large portion of the items in the game.
Several runes.

King LegoSep 26, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I'm not saying that only one thing should counter Urgot's ult.

I said numerous times that I'm 100% fine with several counters existing.

I do maintain, however, that the only thing that "Death Immunity" is the only thing that should let you tank his execute unscathed.

Even if I don't include anything that can kill him during the ult's cast time, this still leaves the following things that counter it

Any form of heal, shield, revive, or defensive steroid that could buy you enough time to survive his ult.

Any form of mobility that could let you dodge the initial spell or get away from Urgot for long enough that he can't bring you to the health threshold.

Any form of CC that could open or maintain a gap between you and Urgot.

Anything that blocks the initial spell.

Anything that reduces the slow, letting you run away.

Death immunity.

That list includes:

Every champion in the game except for Volibear, who still has the traits of CC, durability, and mobility, but not in a way that is useful here if he himself is the target.

Most meta summoner spells.

A large portion of the items in the game.

Several runes.

Well I'm sorry, the things you listed on your post above, saying QSS shouldn't stop Urgot's ulti is just stupid.

Your bias on all this is just absurd. Play the champion properly and you won't even need his ulti much. Play the champion and demand for the many things that counters the champions to be removed...well then maybe you should stop playing Urgot.

DuskDaUmbreonSep 26, 20181 votes

Except invulnerability is just as "immune to death" as Trynd's R.

Did we also forget Kindred existed, and that their R was what amounted to an AoE Trynd ult?

BârdSep 26, 20181 votes

Invuln is specifically damage immunity. The concept was originally to have it be "true death", but they found that it negated Tryndamere entirely so they just made it an insane amount of true damage. Thing is, other invuln champions aren't negated by this, so Kayle and Taric sure as hell don't need to have this interaction.

Trynd still takes damage, he is simply immune to death (more recently, can't be brought below 30/50/70 health)

As for Kindred, yeah it's been a while since I've seen them so I kinda forgot they were a champion.

TrainerRoboSep 26, 20181 votes

As an Urgot main, some of the points you make make sense, some don't.

I agree that the pull shouldnt always be 1.5 seconds. It should be quicker for enemies closer, longer for enemies farther.

From a lore standpoint, it would make sense for only champion's innate abilities to block his ultimate, such as Kindred r, Kayle r, gangplank orange, and trynd R. Urgot values strength and power over material goods and power gained from money. QSS shouldn't be able to stop his R recast and cleanse shouldnt be able to stop it. However, because of Urgot's lore, any champion who has an ability in their kit that can stop it should be able to.

King LegoSep 26, 20181 votes

{quoted}

As an Urgot main, some of the points you make make sense, some don't.

I agree that the pull shouldnt always be 1.5 seconds. It should be quicker for enemies closer, longer for enemies farther.

From a lore standpoint, it would make sense for only champion's innate abilities to block his ultimate, such as Kindred r, Kayle r, gangplank orange, and trynd R. Urgot values strength and power over material goods and power gained from money. QSS shouldn't be able to stop his R recast and cleanse shouldnt be able to stop it. However, because of Urgot's lore, any champion who has an ability in their kit that can stop it should be able to.

Actually, Kindred's R is only a counter to Urgot if they both remain in her ulti. Ulti kindred outside of her circle and she's pretty much dead. The only counter is being inside the circle.

TrainerRoboSep 26, 20181 votes

I'm fully aware of that. Of course, I meant while they're both inside of her circle

King LegoSep 26, 20181 votes