How would you feel about this Varus rework?

Agidyne··16 votes·3,350 views

Passive: Blighted Quiver

Varus basic attacks deal bonus magic damage and inflict Blight. Stacking up 3 times.

His abilities detonate Blight, dealing extra magic damage.

If a basic ability detonates a 3 stacked Blight, it gains a special effect.

Piercing Arrow breaks itself in three different arrows (think about Wild cards)

Chains of Corruption spreads the Chain to nearby enemy champions. (Current Varus Ultimate, reworked into a W)

Hail of Arrows champions affected by it leaves a trail whenever he moves. The Trail apply Grievous wounds to other enemy champions standing on it. (Think of Duskbringer that applies Grievous Wounds)


Q: Piercing Arrow

Unchanged

W: Chains of Corruption

Varus flings out a tendril of corruption that infects the first enemy champion hit, dealing magic damage and rooting them for x seconds.

Damage reduced compared to live, range reduced aswell.

E: Hail of Arrows

Unchanged

R: Living Vengeance

Varus gains x extra range and a huge Attack speed steroid that lasts x seconds.

Auto attacks and Spells will extend the Ultimate Duration by x seconds for up to x seconds.


TL;DR His passive is now his Ultimate, his Ultimate is now his W, his W is now his passive.

His passive now has cool interactions with the rest of his kit, instead of being just MOAR DMG

His current Ultimate is now a regular spell. It deals less damage and has less range.

His new Ultimate is now a huge range buff and an Atk speed steroid, something he could use to compensate for his lack of an escape tool.

32 Comments

Desmond Law6 votes

R-Living Vengeance: Passive: Varus gains 10/15/20% bonus attack speed for every nearby allied champion Active: Whenever an allied champion is slain within 1000 units of Varus, he gains 10/15/20% of their total AD and 50% of their AP until they respawn.

Reazale1 votes

A passive like this in the game on the right champ would be awesome

junglerboy162 votes

I like the idea, but getting 50% of an AP carry's 700 odd AP is absurd, especially if you were playing AP Varus (your blight stacks would deal about 25% max health damage each).

Gorbache5 votes

His new Ultimate is now a huge range buff and an Atk speed steroid, something he could use to compensate for his lack of an escape tool.

By make his ultimate his W though he has an escape tool now. I'm not sold on your ultimate idea, but I really like the idea to have an ADC which can root people with a skillshot rather than having increased mobility.

Thryale1 votes

it would be a disengage, yes. but not a real escape, as escape implies mobility.

Karlyr3 votes

I'm not sold on the increased range on the ultimate unless you decrease varus basic range. But the idea is pretty good.

A range DPS that instead of being a mobility creep tries to immobilize ennmies. This might give Riot some inspiration.

Ill Darkistino3 votes

Ehhhhh.... as a player who almost always plays ADC and plays Varus many games, I'm not so sure about this one. It seems to be a good direction, but as others have said, it takes away a lot of his interesting gameplay and homogenizes him quite a bit.

Here's what I like:

  • Giving him more options of things to do with his moves (bonus effects)

  • Giving him stronger incentive to really focus on using Blight to it's best effect

These two points are the most general, but I can see from the post that OP is thinking in the right direction. But...

  • I don't like the idea of Blight being his passive. The On-Hit is a big part of lane for me and putting points in it later feels very powerful.

  • I don't like having Piercing Arrow split for it's "bonus effect". This is because I think it would feel cartoony and slapstick/gimmicky. Perhaps, instead of splitting, it gains size(width), has no damage falloff, and more range/inertia when proccing 3 Blight Stacks?

  • His new ult is really boring. It would feel really badass to hit that "R" key and shoot super fast, but that isn't really Varus's gameplay. I would rather see a mechanic where Varus gains attack speed for proccing 3 Stack Blight as part of Blighted Quiver.

These qualms mean that this kit, if implemented to live, would make me come to these forums and whine about how they ruined Varus for me. Here is a version of this rework that I would like better.

Passive: Hail of Arrows - When Varus slays a unit, detonates 3 stacks of Blight, or attacks a target affected by his ultimate, he fires an extra set of arrows around the area, dealing minor AD scaling damage to champions (which procs Blight, and does not affect minions) and slowing all enemy units who walk through the area.

Q: Piercing Arrow - Fires an arrow with similar range, damage, and scaling to live, and if Piercing Arrow procs 3 stacks of Blight, the arrow ceases to have per-target damage falloff, becomes slightly wider and cooler-looking, and gains speed, continuing in a line from the target as long as the original charge range of the arrow.

W: Blighted Quiver - On-Hit magic damage removed, possibly lowered % max health damage. Targets which are hit by 3 stacks of Blight now take bonus effects.

E: NEW Burning Vengeance - Varus's next attack gains 25/35/45/55/65 range, deals .2 total AD extra magic damage, and can proc Blight. In addition, if this ability procs Blight, it adds one additional stack of Blight. Starts with a fairly high cooldown (8/9 seconds) and scales with level down to a very low (2/3 second) cooldown. 50 or so non-scaling mana cost.

R: Tendril of Corruption - Similar damage and scaling to live, but with these effects. If this ability strikes a target with 3 stacks of Blight, it shreds their armor and magic resist over time by (1%/2%/3% per second) until the ultimate is no longer in effect. In addition, Varus attacking the affected target of his ultimate makes his "tendrils" move faster toward their new targets. Possibly lowered damage/raised cooldown.

This kit feels more like the "Vengeance Archer" I would feel good and powerful playing, and I hope I have left sufficient openings for balance in the kit. If you feel it is too strong, good options to remove are the loss of falloff damage on "super arrow", champion damage on passive(Still procs Blight), or DOT shred on Tendril of Corruption.

TL;DR: Varus E goes on to his passive and goes off when he does good "Varus things", E replaced with an AA reset that procs Blight, instead of splitting, Q goes faster and hits harder after hitting a "Blight Target", and W lost the On-Hit damage(basically moved to E). Proccing Blight at three stacks incurs bonuses on all his abilities.

jama6553 votes

his ult is Twitch

doublelift fg1 votes

yep true

ThePlasticSpork2 votes

This would inevitably result in nerfs to his poke damage and various other things, because you're giving Varus a lot of extra shit without taking anything away except for a teensy bit of damage on his old ult, which is easily worth the tradeoff considering it would now have a lower cooldown and is now very similar in function to Jinx' E.

Varus isn't really that weak. Of all the ADCs in the game, he has some of, if not THE most potent poke. It is AOE, goes through minions, and does a ton of damage to the first few targets it hits. When fully charged, it does more damage than Jinx' W, hits more targets, and has longer range too. His Q is powerful as hell. He occupies a nice niche of poke/utility, and would be more homogenized if he had an on-demand attack speed steroid because those things are really freaking powerful, so he would lose power elsewhere.

Amelie1 votes

^This guy gets it...

I love Varus, but OP's suggestions would completely ruin him for me. He is appealing because of his long range poke and utility ultimate. He used to be a LOT more popular before all of the new mobility/assassin champs became more common. No need to break him and cause him to be nerfed to hell...

SpongebobIsLife2 votes

I think they should just make Varus Kensu from dawngate.

Civil Dawn2 votes

Why do you want to rework Varus? He seems fine as he is :(

Agidyne1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lil Amy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RQEpKpFa,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2015-03-05T14:43:18.826+0000)

Why do you want to rework Varus? He seems fine as he is :(

He is the only adc that doesn't have a niche in the game.

Everything he does is done better by someone else.

Even Miss Fortune.

Civil Dawn1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Walking Titan,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RQEpKpFa,comment-id=00130000,timestamp=2015-03-05T15:03:25.953+0000)

He is the only adc that doesn't have a niche in the game.

Everything he does is done better by someone else.

Even Miss Fortune.

then just buff him His kit seems fine

Senteth1 votes

I would be fine with it.

Narasimha1 votes

It looks decent, but they've literally already said they have no plans for Varus to have an active steroid of any kind. Its part of what is supposed to make him different.

I can absolutely see the attraction of swapping Blighted Quiver and Living Vengeance around, attack speed on demand is one of the best feeling abilities on an AD carry. Such a good feeling in fact that it's something we give to an awful lot of ranged AD as is, which unfortunately results in some homogenization of playstyle. Varus was deliberately designed to not have attack speed on demand or a movement ability and in exchange have other strengths and a different playstyle and I'd be very hesitant to shift away from that. You could certainly argue those strengths may not be sufficient to make up for his weaknesses, and that's possible, if so though I'd much rather see those strengths buffed to highlight his differences than the addition of an AS steroid like so many other ranged AD carries have.

Something we've been really working on this year is trying to make sure all of our champions offer really different play experiences. In Varus' case having a passive that potentially offers increased power partway through a teamfight and a passive ability (Blighted Quiver) that emphasizes the importance of your active abilities is part of that. As a player you're not doing exactly the same thing you'd do on some of our other carries (burst with spells, activate AS steroid, right click through targets) but instead potentially initiating with your ult, weighing the trade off between poking with Q/E and saving them to proc Blight, watching your distance carefully since you don't have an escape spell etc. Living Vengeance offers an increased reason to then consider committing hard into a fight, despite the risk of being there.

This is from Meddler back in 2012. Granted, they may have decided to flip-flop since then, but I don't think thats too likely here.

PalPlays1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Walking Titan,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RQEpKpFa,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-03-04T20:15:38.295+0000)

Passive: Blighted Quiver

Varus basic attacks deal bonus magic damage and inflict Blight. Stacking up 3 times.

His abilities detonate Blight, dealing extra magic damage.

If a basic ability detonates a 3 stacked Blight, it gains a special effect.

Piercing Arrow breaks itself in three different arrows (think about Wild cards)

Chains of Corruption spreads the Chain to nearby enemy champions. (Current Varus Ultimate, reworked into a W)

Hail of Arrows champions affected by it leaves a trail whenever he moves. The Trail apply Grievous wounds to other enemy champions standing on it. (Think of Duskbringer that applies Grievous Wounds)


Q: Piercing Arrow

Unchanged

W: Chains of Corruption

Varus flings out a tendril of corruption that infects the first enemy champion hit, dealing magic damage and rooting them for x seconds.

Damage reduced compared to live, range reduced aswell.

E: Hail of Arrows

Unchanged

R: Living Vengeance

Varus gains x extra range and a huge Attack speed steroid that lasts x seconds.

Auto attacks and Spells will extend the Ultimate Duration by x seconds for up to x seconds.


TL;DR His passive is now his Ultimate, his Ultimate is now his W, his W is now his passive.

His passive now has cool interactions with the rest of his kit, instead of being just MOAR DMG

His current Ultimate is now a regular spell. It deals less damage and has less range.

His new Ultimate is now a huge range buff and an Atk speed steroid, something he could use to compensate for his lack of an escape tool.

I'm game!

Keltulis1 votes

His ultimate seems a little bland but I love the rest of it!!!!

Gunpoint1 votes

Sounds good to me, though I think Riot wants to remove Greivous Wounds from the game anyway so mabye just make it so his W with passive has the slow field last twice as long and extend to twice it's size over those two seconds.

Crett1 votes

I'll be ok with this rework only if his ultimate can take his attack speed past 2.5 this seems kinda like brand, but there's less comboability and heck he's an adc anyway

Verinitius1 votes

Well back in patch V1.0.0.61 Kayle had a passive called "Holy Fervor" where "When Kayle kills an enemy champion or an allied champion dies near her, she goes into a state of Holy Fervor, increasing her attack speed by 25%. This effect can stack 4 times." Maybe keep the requirement of having ppl die around him in order to get his steroids ramped up to maintain his design of increasing power throughout a team fight that riot supposedly wanted for him in the first place. And alot of times I only have the choice to use all of my abilities only once per team fight, making his current W detonation of blights feel quite useless after laning and mid game when that one off damage is no longer truly impactful. So maybe have a katarina thing going on where cooldowns are also reduced per death.

*bolded numbers subject to balance

R Living Vengeance: When activated all allied and enemy champions within **1200 ** range (visible) become marked for 6/8/10 ** seconds. Any champion that dies while marked will grant Varus a stack of Living Vengeance for 6 ** seconds, stacking up to 5 times. Each new stack will refresh the duration of Living Vengeance, reduce all existing cooldowns by 4/6/8 seconds, and grant Varus 20/30/40% attack speed.

Señor Karthus1 votes

Change the E and make it his Ultimate, but better. A long range rain of arrows dealing DoT and grievous wounds and slow in a bigger AoE than his normal E does now.

Agidyne1 votes

{quoted}

Change the E and make it his Ultimate, but better. A long range rain of arrows dealing DoT and grievous wounds and slow in a bigger AoE than his normal E does now.

That actually sounds really cool.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

I like the idea of Varus's Blight being his passive, and having an activated steroid. I've suggested that in a rework, but I like your idea better.

Talamare1 votes

If his Blight Stacks become a passive... It will get nerfed to garbage, killing Ap Varus

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

No it won't.

Why would making his W--a purely passive skill--his innate passive require nerfs? It already has limitations that keep it from scaling out of control, just apply those to a passive instead.

2/3/4/5, 2/2.75/3.5/4.25/5, 2/2.5/3/3.5/4/4.5/5 or 2/2.25/2.5/2.75/3/3.25/3.5/3.75/4/4.25/4.5/4.75/5%, +2% AP, whichever scaling suits your fancy, gained at whatever levels are appropriate. You could even go as far down as +0.2% per level and still fit into per-level scaling.

What about having that gained per-level instead of by spending points would make it overpowered?

Talamare1 votes

What if his W caused Snared if you pop them with 3 stacks

Obviously internal cooldown per target

Saianna1 votes

As long as Varus Q is unchanged, then i am happy with any rework :D

Kivolan1 votes

With the proper peel, Varus can destroy anything as-is.

I've been playing him a lot lately in norms with a friend and having a blast with it. :)

Solidair31 votes

I think one cool ult idea for him, would be a temporary complete corruption in where he gains bonus attack speed and a hurricane aoe effect to apply blight.

At the same time though I would hate to lose his initiation/counter initiation Ult status.

The Master Dex1 votes

I actually really like the idea of the ultimate. It seems to amend some of his weaknesses as an ADC. I liked Varus before, but would actually buy him with this kit

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