Just watched a Spectator match.

SorryBoysImLes··10 votes·1,106 views

Not a Lee Sin OP nerf him thread. Simply noticing and showing what I saw, and how ridiculous it looks. As usual, noticed Lee Sin was doing exceptionally well for being at least 1 level behind everyone. Opposite jungler was Vi, 1 level ahead, around 600+ gold ahead.

Lee Sin (15) with only DPS being Warrior Enchant on jungle item: AD - 222 Vi (16) same thing but also a Phage: AD - 212

All of Lee Sin's abilities do 10 - 20% more damage than all of Vi's abilities thanks to the scaling. Lee is also tankier since the money invested on Vi's Phage instead went into Giant's Belt and Cloth for him, yet still more AD.

At this point in the game: Lee is tankier than Vi, Lee has more over-all damage than Vi (both in abilities and AA,) God knows Lee is way more mobile than Vi, yet Lee is 1 level under Vi and has earned less gold. He's proving it in 1 v 1's vs Vi, as well as more impact in teamfights.

This has nothing to do with skill, it has nothing to do with his abilities; it's a clear fact that Lee, despite being at a decent disadvantage to his counter-part jungler in both levels and gold, out-scales her in every aspect. His entire kit has more damage and utility.

Only advantage she has is a better engage, but once she engages it's either winning the teamfight or she's dead. If Lee engages and things go south, disappear into the jungle. Vi is by no means a bad jungler, and I'm not trying to point that out/suggest buff her, she actually seems to be one of the better ones. Lee is proving to be a contradiction. He's at a disadvantage to his counter-part jungler, yet he has an advantage over her

Why is that allowed? I understand if someone is in equal standings with Lee and he has slightly better stats than him, that's most champions. But when he's that far behind?

9 Comments

Miku Lv995 votes

If it was one of the matches on the home page that you spectate then the players were probably all at least about diamond III or so, probably at least diamond II. So I would assume they had pretty good runes and masteries so I wouldn't say that's the difference.

Look at Lee's ratios on his abilities. He really does just have higher ratios than Vi or almost anyone, for that matter.

SorryBoysImLes4 votes

Which is fine, many champions do have higher X than Y champion. But there's usually trade-offs.

Tristana has a huge AS steroid in her Q, MF's W steroid is half that but it gives her stacking damage and heal reduction, hence why it balances out.

Lee is just..a ball of free stats and utilities.

Mr Slowdeath1 votes

Maybe the difference is hidden in runes and masteries for this particular game? Did you look that far into it?

Fox Tango1 votes

I thought of this as well.

SorryBoysImLes5 votes

I did, actually. Vi had mostly scaling AD runes and flat armor runes.

Lee had flat AD runes (quints) and the rest were flat armor runes. Vi had 21/9/0

Lee had 21/6/3(was placed in movespeed)

Again..She had more invested in runes that benefited more at the time (level 16) and even masteries that ultimately gave her more defense bonuses.

Mr Slowdeath2 votes

Well that about says it all to me. Haha. My notion to ban Lee Sin over Jarvan was right.

ømg1 votes

i agree i try to play freelo sin (he has 56% winrate even in bronze 5 BR server) but my team holds me back

stuck in silver but my lee song belongs in challenger gg

Troy2426211 votes

Only ones that haven't figured this out is Rito. Sad thing is, Vi is over the top, too >.>.

SorryBoysImLes1 votes

This Lee f***ed up. He had a few deaths and less kills and fell behind, most any champion that that happens to is punished for it and pretty much forced to farm till they catch up for fear of just feeding more or gimping their team. Lee didn't, though, he just went about the game as if he had 0 deaths and was farming flawlessly. Lee seems to have a habit of getting off easy for poor play. Bad engage? Easy disengage. Fall behind in levels and farm? Inflated base stats make it so it doesn't have a negative effect on him.

I just don't understand why he's allowed that kind of advantage. The only skill required to play Lee Sin is know how to land a skill shot. If Lee requires skill and is hard to master then Ezreal shouldn't even be touched by anyone who isn't at an LCS level of play.

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