Did dragon get weaker in season 5 because Jungler are soloing it so easily?

Lwnt·Nov 24, 2014·2 votes·2,474 views

An example is pantheon jungler on my team was able to solo dragon twice and it was only 12 min in the game. I was so impress, but I always thought dragon and baron was suppose to be a team effort to kill. Now I feel like you dont need to help because there are some jungler who can solo it so easily. Another example is udyr who solo 3 dragon in one game. Honestly that is some skill to be able to solo it. But I like the whole team fight for the dragon.

6 Comments

Poro SupportNov 24, 20142 votes

It became weaker in the way that it does damage. The attacks are no longer targeted - they're more like a cone based AOE. As long as you can dodge the AOE either by swapping aggro before it attacks or a movement skill, it won't damage you. In that regards, if your mechanics are above a snail, it's pretty simple now.

JadeKnightblazerNov 24, 20141 votes

Aatrox can do it @7mins (lvl 6)

OnegarionNov 24, 20141 votes

I'm pretty sure we've all seen those lvl 3 solos on youtube, but really they shouldn't be allowed to do that by the opposing team. I don't really see it so much as a huge issue (except maybe the panth case) since if your team spots him he should be dead. If your opponent is allowing him to solo it early then they are playing poorly and need to ward earlier as a whole. I've seen a number of the lvl 3 solos and many of the do it, but are a couple hits form death (again except panth).

While I think dragon is a bit more of a challenge I do feel like him and baron are much weaker. I think the old baron was much harder than the new baron. Very rarely do I see teams coming out hurt or low health unless thats how they went in. I've tanked dragon as a leona with 15% health and came out just fine. Also this was early in the game 2nd dragon overall and it was before baron spawned (I wasn't playing very well either and wasn't fed). I think they could both use a buff to durability and overall damage. They don't feel very epic to fight.

For dragon I believe that we should look to have him buffed to deal more damage (maybe a burn in general too) to single targets. If there is only 1 champ fighting him he should be dealing more damage as a whole to them. I look to Aggro Juggling here. If he doesn't change targets he should be dealing more. This I feel would promote teamwork in taking him down. While it may seem kind of cheap to confuse the big lug its a very viable strat imo. If you take many other games with raid bosses typically you have 2 types of front line people. 1) Just simply tanking it up and either being strong enough to sustain the damage or having good regen through personal sources or heals from teammates. 2) You have the distraction. The character that can move in and out of aggro so well and keep the target off its feet. technically there are 3 types if you want to consider the out of range killers, but I doubt you'll see your adc attempting to solo dragon this early.

Baron I think just needs some good buffs. I really don't every think of him as a problem and usually he is weaker than dragon in my opinion. That or maybe the jungle items just scale really well against our big targets when you finally go for him.

Poro SupportNov 24, 20142 votes

I'm pretty sure we've all seen those lvl 3 solos on youtube, but really they shouldn't be allowed to do that by the opposing team. I don't really see it so much as a huge issue (except maybe the panth case) since if your team spots him he should be dead. If your opponent is allowing him to solo it early then they are playing poorly and need to ward earlier as a whole. I've seen a number of the lvl 3 solos and many of the do it, but are a couple hits form death (again except panth).

I snipped the rest because I agree for the most part. Baron needs a slight buff (and bug fixed - him one shotting people is kind of ridiculous.)

The biggest problem with the level 3 solos is the fact that it's harder than you make it sound for the enemy team to react to. Bot lane has serious pressure to rush to level two OR in the case that they don't, to play pretty far back until they make up the experience difference because (level) two is that pivotal point where super early trades tend to make/break the duo lane. Most supports don't have the option to go ward dragon that early simply because a lack of movement speed (not counting masteries) + the XP loss is going to make that lane a lot rougher than it would if they just stayed. Not only that, with more and more junglers farming early and ganking later it's become pretty standard that supports don't throw a ward up that way until closer to the 6 minute mark.

OnegarionNov 24, 20141 votes

I'm going to hate myself for making this example, bu here goes anyway. When you watch/listen to pro games they talk about knowing how a player plays and what they are going to do. This makes it easier to play against them and to counter them. You know what they are doing when they play X champ at time Y.

I think the basis of this is true about solo Que players as well. When we know that a popular strat is for a lvl 3 panth to solo dragon its up to use to stop it. Its the same as saying that we know a lee sin typically wants to start red and go to blue. We know what he is doing and we can plan around it.

Its different if you have champ A who is a 50/50 shot at doing something or maybe a 33/33/33 (if you take ganking lanes into count). Back in early season 4 or late season 3 there was a time where nunu would solo anything just because he is nunu. While it for sure warranted a nerf it became known what he was going to do. So players prepped for it. Same now with the blitz pull on buffs (well last seasons prep on that). Players started to find ways around it.

Again I really do think that dragon/baron should be buffed regardless of the consensus of whether I'm right or not on these early drags. I think that this alone would make it much more risky if Dragon had a burn that even if a jungler blocked it they would still take damage or if he reved up like towers. This would make it harder for players to do it solo early.

In addition as another person commented its now all skill shots for dragon and they are relatively easy to dodge. This makes it much easier to do too. I've seen a lvl 3 fiora solo dragon (while she almost died) because she would just dodge his attacks. If you were for sure going to get hit by him it would make a good number of these fall off quite a bit.

While I may make it sound easier than it really is if you know its coming you should be prepared. So as a jungler you take an early back and get a ward on dragon or an early ward from the support (if possible) should be put up. A ward from the mid laner in the bottom of the river can help too. There are little things that can be done. Ofc this is solo Que we are talking about so there are varying levels of competency so you can't expect this every time.

Hullabaloo907Nov 26, 20141 votes

I think early solo dragons were possible before, but not worth the risk. Warwick has always had the warning in his description that he could solo dragon really early.