Having Kayns Transformation depend on which enemy type he damaged last is kinda problematic ingame..

Raoul·Aug 31, 2017·32 votes·1,531 views

I just had a game with a Kany player who refused to gank my lane because my enemy was ranged and he said he needed melee souls to transform.

I know, 4 minutes later you can choose the other form, but honestly 4 minutes is a damn long time in this game...

Is it really something that adds good gameplay to the game, when you make it punishing for the player to gank a melee or ranged champion?

I feel like this part of the passive should go. Lorewise it makes sense, yes, but in a gamplay aspect, it can lead to some pretty bad moments.

23 Comments

DuskDaUmbreonAug 31, 20174 votes

Okay. I can't be the only one that thinks SA is better. Sure, Rhaast's insane healing by pressing R is busted as fuck (literately healed 80% of his health by pressing R on a Nasus), but the massive range and lack of lockdown on your Q (w? E? Whatever the long slice is), as well as the insane MS buff for your W (e?. The wall thingy) makes him so much nicer. Sure, your passive and ult aren't as strong, but you can hit the enemy backline while standing next to your ADC and ult to them. The simple value of that is highly underrated.

RaoulAug 31, 20178 votes

2/5 of the enemy team will be full tank. With massive amount of CC.

You are blowing up before you can assassinate anyone unless the enemy team is brain AFK.

DuskDaUmbreonAug 31, 20172 votes

Possibly. But your escape potential should be more than enough, especially if you wait until the fight's actually started to go in.

And let's be serious. At low tier, you're lucky to see even one single tank in a match, let alone 2 per team.

RavenMagusSep 1, 20174 votes

That's actually not the issue with SA Kayn at all.

With your wall tricks, it's actually fairly easy to flank and get in from the side or back when a teamfight is engaged. You shouldn't be going straight ahead first.

The problem is it takes a lot of effort to kill an ADC lategame - and if they buy a GA, or have a shielding support, you're basically screwed.

He can actually deal quite a significant amount of AOE damage too, though it's fairly hard to pull that off well.

edit: also btw, RE: his passive, it actually works in a very unintuitive way. There's two bars that fill up individually, and you only see the one that's most full. You transform whenever one of them is full. That's why you always transform into the last enemy - because someone will always be the last one to fill one of the bars, and once you achieve a form, it means you succeed in filling that bar completely first.

Combined with the fact that early game orbs do next to nothing and the amount each orb gives you towards a transformation scales up very fast with game time, it can certainly feel like that, though - one duel with a ranged opponent between 10 to 15 minutes could certainly fill up the blue kayn bar 100%...

edit2: if there's an issue with Darkin Kayn being so much better, imo it's just that Darkin Kayn is a bit too good, in particular he does too much damage to everyone. That should be SA's job, after all.

AirKingNeoAug 31, 20171 votes

100 range isn't massive. SA deals less damage than Rhaast (per damage item) and gets blown up.

ErockandrollSep 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Okay. I can't be the only one that thinks SA is better. Sure, Rhaast's insane healing by pressing R is busted as fuck (literately healed 80% of his health by pressing R on a Nasus), but the massive range and lack of lockdown on your Q (w? E? Whatever the long slice is), as well as the insane MS buff for your W (e?. The wall thingy) makes him so much nicer. Sure, your passive and ult aren't as strong, but you can hit the enemy backline while standing next to your ADC and ult to them. The simple value of that is highly underrated.

I had a chance to play Kayn both in Ascension and on the Twisted treeline. And in both cases, I went with the same Mastery, (pretty much a glass cannon set up.) and pretty much chose my form by which ever I get first.

In context of those game modes, I did actually prefer SA Kayn. The main thing I think was that his spells are AoE. It wasn't just Bursting the Glass cannons as it was Chunking out the entire team. (Against a 3 man team, it's a bit less risky than a 5 man on SR)

But again, my mastery choice might be bias in favoring SA form.

GayFluffyUnicornSep 1, 20171 votes

The W knockup from rhaast alone makes up for EVERYTHING the assassin form could offer. Especially in higher elos such a knockup can be gamebreaking in a teamfight. Shadow is good and basically unstoppable when snowballing hard but that does happen rarely against all the sejus and maos in the jungle/toplane.

Hong Kong RevoltSep 1, 20171 votes

70% winrate on Kayn, I certainly evolve Shadow assassin more than Rhaast. It's absolutely disgusting to kill a mage or ADC with just wq. Even if SA is behind, you can dive in and kill whatever you want if your ult is up.

UnboundHadesAug 31, 20172 votes

Thats not hoe it works i would tell you but im on my phone and cant

BirboniusAug 31, 20171 votes

Do you mean the fact that only the last champ hit before the trasformation is active actually counts? I've heard it from foxdrop but he was the only one who "told me" so far this thing,even if makes a lot of sense if it works this way

UnboundHadesAug 31, 20171 votes

It doesn't work that way youtubers are shit for info

BirboniusAug 31, 20171 votes

as i said,it was the 1st time i've heard about it

RaoulAug 31, 20173 votes

This is how it works. when you are nearly full, the next champion you atack decides what transformation you get.

So if you want Rhaast (which you want all the time), and only ranged champions are gankable right now, you are pretty fucked, because if you now gank them and you passive bar fills up, you have to a) play shadow Assassin or b) wait 4 more minutes...

PennsAug 31, 20177 votes

Nah there are actually 2 bars that fill up. One for red and one for blue form, but you only see the one that is ahead for some reason.

RaoulAug 31, 20171 votes

I would have to check again, but I am pretty sure only the last champion you hit matters...

PennsAug 31, 20174 votes

I figured it out myself in a game but https://youtu.be/meFWBUDdESY?t=44s explains it pretty well

XeroKimoAug 31, 20171 votes

Is that really how it works? O.o

When I played Kayn regardless of which orbs I get, the bar fills up, and it was a matter of which orb you received that unlocked your transformation, was the form you unlock instantly. So if I filled most of my bar from melee champs, but the remaining exp was gained from ranged champs, I'd get the assassin form.

Then again it's been like a week since I've last played him so I might be wrong, or there's like an increase of amount exp you get per orb as the game goes on

TheGoomyGamerAug 31, 20172 votes

It appears the most recent champ hit, but actually there are 2 bars and only the most full one shows. You think its the most recent hit, because you can only fill up a bar by hitting a respective champion ( if that make sense). I.e ur not gonna fill up a red bar by killing a ranged champ.

MuzétAug 31, 20175 votes

This is how it works. when you are nearly full, the next champion you atack decides what transformation you get.

Not really. The more time has passed the more valuable souls are. And you get even more valuable orbs once you kill your target. That's it.

Dorans PantsSep 1, 20172 votes

couldn´t he just get two separate bars? I don´t get why you should wait 4 min for the other transformation, regardless how many souls you have already collected.

WráthfulAug 31, 20171 votes

it matters if u hitted more melee's than ranged's and the assassin kayn has some uses too his 1shotting combo is basically the first q hit LOL.

Hong Kong RevoltSep 1, 20171 votes

I'm sorry a bad player ruined your game. For any Kayn players, if you get a kill at 10 minutes, that champ will evolve you to their form basically every time, so gank whatever you want until then.