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A Suggestion on how to fix Rengar's current state (make everyone happy , even adc mains)

subhuman team XD··3 votes·255 views

(Before i start this topic , i just want to say that there are FAR more better and detailed suggestions than mine , this post is just to show what could this fix or rather mini rework/revert do for rengar to not only maintain his identity as a hunter/assassin but also maintain the counterplay aspect to make both ends happy , in other words fun to play as and against )

First of all , ill start off with saying that even though rengar might seem in a "stable-ish state" to you dear riot games , to the mains and to seemingly everyone else hes not , hes pretty feast or famine (pretty much just like pre-rework rengar) either he gets super fed and carries the game or he doesnt do anything all game long and hes useless , as far as i know , current rengar as he is right now is just not stable whatso ever , his winrate is below average , hes VERY situational now , his kit just doesnt fit for an assassin , and now for somereason hes been shifted from a primary assassin , to primary diver even though he was included in the "ASSASSIN REWORK". Im going to try and keep this topic as short as possible yet very straight forward and pretty accurate .

Let's start with his passive :

+Bonetooth necklace : Now dont get me wrong , the current bonetooth necklace is fine where its at , but pure bonus ad and % bonus ad scaling is just not UNIQUE to the champion , i personally believe that some of the old bonetooth bonuses if replaced with this new one with some adjustments should be perfect for him , my personal suggestion is , make his leap range same as before (600) with 0 stacks and this is how each stack should look like : 1 stacks : bonus movement speed while out or in brush (basically same as before but with 3 stacks) 2 stacks : leap range increased by 125 (725) same as now 3 stacks : Thrill of the hunt's bonus movement speed is slightly increased 4 stacks : Thrill of the hunt's duration increased by 4 at each rank (this is compensated with the duration on the R) 5 stacks : rengar's abilities gain bonus effects , emp Q now grants bonus movement speed for short period , emp W slows targets for a very brief duration , rengar's emp bola no longer slows targets after the snare but if the snare hits a target the snare duration is slightly increased (from 1.5 to 2.5) again this duration can be adjusted according to tests of this version

+Ferocity : I perosnally believe than the new ferocity system is PERFECT on this version of rengar , because previously old rengar's problem was initially the ferocity no decaying and also getting 5 stacks of ferocity after ulting which led to triple Q situations all the time which also allowed rengar to constantly be this extremly op version of vayne but melee form , this is why i do believe this version of the ferocity is good to balance him out and to avoid "no counterplay" situations , but there is still one little problem with it , as long as your still in combat you can get to 4 stacks without having to hit a target and thats the problem here , so i think that this version should be tuned to give rengar players a chance to think of their combos and how they should be using this mechanic in order to kill their targets. oh and also no longer grants movement speed after using any empowered ability since his Q grants that now from the stacks.

+Q-Savagery : Now this is the bread and butter for rengar in general , this ability is what makes or brakes things for rengar , and to be honest the old version of Q was in general more fun to use (stabby kitty, with some stabby sounds , felt satisfying) but also way more smoother than the new Q , New Q is a raw damaging ability but in AOE form now which doesnt really make any sense at all , trying to win the swimming competition when everyone is fighting is not exactly rengar's style now is it ? that is why i think that old Q (the mechanic itself not the exact same old ability) is fitting for him as a character but also fitting for his theme (being a hunter/predator that likes hunting everything for fun) and heres my version of it (just an idea): New old Q : now is an auto attack enhancer , instead of having % attack damage , now has base damage , with scaling bonus ad (this will make critgar less hard to deal with and much harder to play but also rewarding if played well)

Emp Q : no longer grants bonus attack speed , same effects as normal Q , has higher base damage and higher scaling , new effect (if the target was killed with emp Q you will get bonus attack speed (10/15/20/30/40%) based on level for 3 seconds) again this will prevent the old scenarios where you go in with emp Q and get the attack speed right off the bat for no cost , now you actually have to do something in order to get that bonus attack speed again not too much but not too little attack speed (im just trying to make AS balanced as possible)

+W Battle Roar : Same as the current , i dont have much problem with it exept the empowered version of it , since the the reworked bonetooth is gone in this version , i personally believe on top of cleansing your way out of cc you will slow your chasers by a certain amount for a short period of time just to barely make your way out if you fail your assassination , then again in some situations , for example if you fail to assassinate an adc (a vayne for example) and shes still alive and you use your emp ability this should more or less help you escape but since vayne gets movement speed towards champions chances are your going to die so you'll have to think before you act.

+E Bola Strike : should be more or less the same , exept as mentioned above in the bonetooth stacks (no longer slows targets after snare but instead increases the duration of the snare)

+R Thrill of the hunt : Rengar activates his predatory instincts, becoming camouflaged for the duration. While active, Rengar gains bonus movement speed and vision of the nearest enemy champion. Rengar can leap without being in brush during this time , Attacking or using abilities ends Thrill of the Hunt. no longer grants a critical strike after leap. (duration adjusted from 14/16/20 to 8/12/16 goes with the new version of bonetooth) but bonus movement speed gained is slightly higher than before. to compensate with the duration.

this should make old rengar mixed with some new parts of new rengar pretty balanced and fun to play as and against (not toooo broken or not toooo weak either) i hope you like my idea , again this is just a small suggestion im pretty sure there are far more better suggestions than mine this is just something that i thought of since rengar's identity is pretty much gone now , hopefully this adjustment will bring the fun he use to give before.

SIDE NOTE : please bring back old ferocity sounds (when you hit max stacks , that GRR was satisfying as heck) and also the old stabbing sound from his old Q added into his leap just incase this suggestion wasnt taken in consideration.

Please make sure to give me feedback about this , if there is anything you want to say or you think should be replaced comment down below , and i hope riot replies on this

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

3 Comments

Doozku2 votes

Eeeh, I don't feel like this is the right way to take Rengar.

I feel like the bonus effects on his aren't needed. The second and last stack are proportionately better than the rest. He'd probably be way more feast or famine than he is now. Besides, one of the goals of the rework was to remove some of the utility from the stacks so you don't have to relearn things like jump range. Not to mention that last stacks seems WAY too strong. If you can get that early, then you are going to be insanely powerful. But if you are in one of those games where the last stack is someone like a Trynd, and you are going to have a really hard time killing him, then your power drops down way too hard.

I don't think new ferocity system fits his kit with the old Q. Keep in mind that the old Q is much less powerful than the new one, and relies much more on landing multiple hits to be effective. Having access to only one ferocity in a fight would mean that the Q would have to be unproportionately buffed to compensate, putting way too much power in a point and click spell. I'd also say that the new ferocity system helps promote bruiser Rengar. Since you don't start a fight with a stack, but you get more stacks over time, its better for a champion who likes to deal sustained damage, rather than a champion who wants to be focused on bursting a target like Rengar should.

Q changes are actually really good, like really really good. Definitely the best suggestion you've made.

I'm not sure what your suggesting with the W changes. Are you leaving it as is, or are you adding a slow to the emp version? Anyways, i feel the % hp heal on his current W doesn't fit on an assassin Rengar. Maybe make it a flat heal? Also have you considered giving his W back its cc immunity as a bonetooth bonus, if you are adamant on keeping the new bonetooth system? I think that this would be an appropriate reward for a stack.

I'd say the R needs more ways of counterplay. With what you're suggesting, there'd be no way of telling that Rengar is coming for you until he's right on top of you. Maybe a global roar or the screen's border getting dark when he ults and he's in the general area of you? Something to tell you that he's coming. Also there's no reward at all when you land the R. Maybe some ferocity generation would be nice?

All in all, there are some really good ideas with these changes, but there are also several problems that are similar to the problems that old Rengar have. His new kit is really feast or famine, and lacks counterplay. I've always said that Rengar is allowed to have a oneshot, as long as his ultimate is appropriately difficult to use to get onto a target so that the target has a change of countering it.

subhuman team XD1 votes

thank you for your feedback , im glad you liked the Q changes , for bonetooth i definitly think that it needs more work in order to prevert the bruiser rengar situation , as for emp W i was thinking of leaving it as it is but not the cc immunity just the cleansing one cc at a time (similar to his current cleasning mechanic) i do believe that the current bonetooth is still good i just thought instead of having raw stats why not give him actual tools and bonuses he can make use of if he had those stacks to make him useful throughout the game , i agree on your suggestion on R similar to reksai but it should more or less make rengar less predictable since everyone is going to hear him coming , i also agree these suggestions definitly need some adjustments , i guess the Q suggestion was by far the best one i made ? i just thought that if rengar managed to land his emp Q on a target and dealt the killing blow he should be rewarded with some attack speed for a short amount of time similar to camille's E if landed on a champion but harder since he has to kill the target with emp ability , im glad you liked the idea , as i said in the beginning , there are FAR more better suggestions than mine and way more detailed suggested by the /r/rengarmains community but they all got rejected when they came to our subreddit and we pretty much gave up ever since then ... im just sad right now at the way rengar is right now , hes not the same anymore unfortunatly , i just hope he gets some changes this year or at least a full rework sometime soon

Doozku1 votes

Actually I didn't notice the attack speed part until now. I was just talking about the changes to the base Q.

Personally, I don't think that he needs to gate his attack speed. Because of those other Q changes you said, he'll probably not build crit anymore but instead just lethality. If that's the case, I don't think he needs any specific gating of his attack speed. Its always been more useful as a tool for clearing rather than a tool for fighting, since your target is probably dead before they get the chance to respond (although I guess it made his combos feel smoother.)

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