Why doesn't Riot make reasonable changes when balancing champions?

OneMustFall··3 votes·549 views

In general referring to the Udyr changes to Phoenix Stance on PBE but I've noticed this a lot when I see balance changes. So previously before 6.4 Udyr was really strong in the jungle. I personally had no problem with him but a lot of people complained his Phoenix Stance was too strong and AP Udyr was a menace, etc. So Riot nerfed him.

After these nerfs a lot of people still struggled against Udyr and there was still complaints of him doing too much damage. So Riot nerfed Phoenix Stance again in 6.7, this time really hard. Phoenix Udyr fell off the face of the planet and led us to today. But instead of doing small buffs like the obvious middle option (30/70/110/150/190), Riot is buffing him to pre 6.4 values (In exchange for the DOT effect lasting a second less).

My concern here is if you felt the need to nerf him not once but twice why would you revert all the base damage nerfs instead of at first trying the option in the midde which probably would leave him where everyone wants him? And if that wasn't good enough, you could always buff him again next patch. But these changes almost certainly will be a restore to Udyr dominating and people screaming for nerfs once again.

It's a trend I see Riot's balance team engage in frequently and I just don't understand it personally. If you're trying to balance why don't you start with the balanced option that makes sense instead of constant over buffing and then over nerfing to compensate?

8 Comments

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

Riot tries to be excessively 'clever' with balance changes.

"Kassadin one shots people."

Remove silence.

"He still one shots people."

Remove early poke.

"He still one shots people."

Remove attack speed.

"He still one shots people."

Change riftwalk mechanic.

"He still one shots people."

Gimp slow.

"He still one shots people."

Move damage from his Q to his W.

"He still one shots people."

Nerf early game Q base damage.

"He still one shots people."

Make him an unreliable piece of trash with no utility.

"But he STILL ONE SHOTS PEOPLE! AS in DAMAGE! Nerf THAT!"

Buff's Q early game damage again...

Sigh...

Keira Helsh2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R7EyeHOv,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-09-10T02:07:00.375+0000)

snip

This, one hundred percent. Absolutely.

Verxint1 votes

You know who else can oneshot people?

Annie Diana Evelynn Fizz Katarina Khazix Leblanc Lux Syndra Veigar Zed

The problem with Kassadin was never that he had enough damage to be an assassin. It was the safety with which he could do it thanks to his silence and ult range.

If Riot nerfed every time someone complained about a champion doing a lot of damage, nobody would have any damage anymore.

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

{quoted}

You know who else can oneshot people?

Annie Diana Evelynn Fizz Katarina Khazix Leblanc Lux Syndra Veigar Zed

The problem with Kassadin was never that he had enough damage to be an assassin. It was the safety with which he could do it thanks to his silence and ult range.

If Riot nerfed every time someone complained about a champion doing a lot of damage, nobody would have any damage anymore.

Pretty sure almost every Kassadin main and former Kassadin main would rather have silence than be able to deal 2.7k damage in 1 second with a standard rotation AP build. (Followed by another 700 damage 1.2 seconds afterwards).

Keira Helsh2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R7EyeHOv,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2016-09-10T02:19:17.033+0000)

Pretty sure almost every Kassadin main and former Kassadin main would rather have silence than be able to deal 2.7k damage in 1 second with a standard rotation AP build. (Followed by another 700 damage 1.2 seconds afterwards).

Yes, I would rather have my silence, attack speed, and utility over jumping over a wall to instagib someone. It was wayyy more fun, and was the reason I even started playing Kassadin in 2011.

Verxint1 votes

Yes, I would rather have my silence, attack speed, and utility over jumping over a wall to instagib someone.

Do you people even read?

It was the safety with which he could do it thanks to his silence and ult range.

Are you guys lucid? Do you actually understand what is being said?

Verxint1 votes

They aren't just trying to make things "balanced", they're trying to keep champions interesting and their playstyles relevant. I don't know enough about Udyr to comment on this particular tentative change, but the simple explanation is that there is more the gameplay team is trying to do than simply adjust power levels.

Again I don't know specifically what that means for Udyr in this case, and that's probably an interesting discussion in its own right.

Kenioshi1 votes

the reason he was nerfed was cause of the build Trick2g showed people which allowed you to tank turrets (also another reason turrets got buffed) and solo kill it with one minion wave. What I dont understand is why did the nerf Udyr's phoenix stance and turtle knowing they're going to buff turrets, (and the zz'rot health nerf)

More from Gameplay

More by OneMustFall