Full AD teams

Deballed·Oct 15, 2016·46 votes·5,722 views

literally is doesnt matter if you dont have ap on your team because armor pen is soo fking strong

67 Comments

LankPantsOct 15, 20167 votes

Armour is also in a pretty sad state right now. There was a point in time where picking an all AD team was a bad idea because a tank could just build up item 3143 item 3742 item 3075 item 3110 item 3047 and become borderline indestructible to AD. Riot has nerfed every single one of those items since that point however since an ADC main somewhere bitched at them because their dumb comp meant they didn't get to kill someone.

Spaceman5pffOct 16, 20161 votes

Still worth picking Tahm into full AD for

TahmKench item 3143 item 3742 item 3075 item 3047 item 3083 item 1413 (I like to jungle him)

ZT XperimentorOct 16, 20161 votes

Remember back when tanks weren't instakilled like a mage minion? Before the days of riot's bootlicking those 'pro' players, and greed for spotlight by ignorant masses? I miss those days.

Critmaster GarenOct 15, 20166 votes

this is why item 3071 needs to go back to a bruiser specific item.

the entire point of the thing was to be a core item for a very specific handful of fighters (and a situational pick for certain assassins), to give them some additional team synergy.

basically the idea was to give people an incentive to pick a bruiser who synergizes with cleaver over another champion against some teamcomps.

the fact that so many champions are stacking it with flat armor pen now, doesnt make the armor shred of cleaver in a game a rare case of a cleaver bruiser shredding armor for his team, but a common occurance, that everyone destroys everyone elses armor and deals almost true damage with 70 flat armor pen lategame.

TurquoiseYoshiOct 15, 20161 votes

Jayce and Lucian are "so many"?

EDIT: Okay, MF, Zed, and Talon use it as well. I completely forgot about them because nobody really complains about them using those items.

bill84Oct 15, 20162 votes

Jayce has been buying cleaver forever, just nobody cared before because he wasn't very popular until they buffed him.

1 800 Top LaneOct 15, 20164 votes

Nobody cared until I put on the mask.

dukevonartOct 15, 20162 votes

https://img.ifcdn.com/images/525ab3cff72272eedb42a064f9e8be2c88c1898d5a12b13ae8f8589d80192607_1.gif

resumedOct 15, 20169 votes

this is currently the best miss fortune build item 3147 item 3142 item 3006 item 3071 item 3156 item 3036

MunchCrunchLunchOct 15, 20162 votes

5 armor pen items

lel

TurquoiseYoshiOct 15, 20161 votes

I honestly forgot about MF because I never see her. In any case, that is still under 3% of the entire roster and is ~1/7th of marksmen.

resumedOct 15, 20162 votes

marksmen are the ones abusing armor pen

assassins like zed and talon are who its made for

but we got every marksman rushing youmuus

Spaceman5pffOct 15, 20164 votes

MF: item 3147 item 3142 item 3071 item 3156 item 3036 they gave her ultimate the ability to crit for christs sake Jhin: item 3009 DESIGNED TO SCALE HARD WITH CRIT / ATTACK SPEED Lucian: item 3033 classic caster ad, this is a case where i think pen build is ok to be viable Gangplank (listed as a former crit builder that now opts for pen) item 3078 item 3142 item 3147 item 3156 item 3036 he is not meta, granted, but when played, he is still better off building pen right now Varus item 3042 another classic caster AD who should be able to utilize pen well over crit

Armor Pen is DEFINITELY the superior damage suplement, compared to crit. Champions that can use it better than crit will opt for it, and champions that weren't viable due to poor crit interaction are now viable due to the power of pen. EVEN SIVIR is out of the meta now, despite her offering the same early pushing power and aoe speed utility that Karma is contested for. Sivir Karma SHOULD be a power lane in this meta, (She would be amazing in the popular comps like Kennen Olaf Vladimir + Karma ) but it isn't because Sivir doesn't function well with penetration. The only reason that Caitlyn is meta as a crit user is because of the armor avoidance on her headshots that she gets so many of now. Ashe is gone, despite her ability (like jhin) to make picks for her team, because her crit reliance means she can't abuse armor pen. Ezreal is only relevant as a non-pen builder due to his having the holy trinity of Poke, Mobility, and Utility ( item 3025 ) that simply no other carry can bring to the table.

TurquoiseYoshiOct 15, 20161 votes

The post I responded to was talking about Cleaver+Arpen. I responded by talking about those who use Cleaver+Arpen. Please read.

Spaceman5pffOct 16, 20162 votes

Actually, the comment you hit reply to was about a full armor pen build on MF. Please pay attention to what you are clicking on.

TurquoiseYoshiOct 16, 20161 votes

Please understand how threads work. People send things, then people respond, and then THE SAME PEOPLE can send something back, and that can go on as long as you want. I'm the only one with an H2K icon, it shouldn't be too hard to keep track of me in threads.

Spaceman5pffOct 16, 20161 votes

OK, but ready!? The comment I REPLIED TO, was in reply to an ArPen MF build.

If I wanted to reply to your original comment, I would have clicked reply to that.

TurquoiseYoshiOct 16, 20161 votes

However, usually threads stay on the same topic. My original reply had to do with Cleaver+Arpen builds. Somebody commented with a Cleaver+Arpen build that I forgot about, and I acknowledged it. I didn't note anything specifically about the fact that it was Cleaver+Arpen, but context clues and reading previous comments can assist with that.

Spaceman5pffOct 16, 20161 votes

True.

But this one didn't stay on topic.

AirKingNeoOct 15, 20161 votes

And you can probably drop Duskblade for Death's Dance and it's better.

ItsOrvalOct 16, 20161 votes

Thats what I build on Jayce but with Ionian boots and all armor pen Runes xD

LankPantsOct 15, 20161 votes

Jayce and Lucian are "so many"?

EDIT: Okay, MF, Zed, and Talon use it as well. I completely forgot about them because nobody really complains about them using those items.

Gnar , LeeSin , Olaf , RekSai , Riven

Seems pretty garbage right now doesn't it?

TurquoiseYoshiOct 15, 20161 votes

Two of those build Cleaver and one of them builds any other Arpen items.

doiminat0r3600Oct 15, 20163 votes

The problem I see is that there are many % armor pen items but only 1 % magic pen item. Mages only have 4 flat pen (including item 3001 ) and 1 % pen. AD champs have 3 flat pen items and 3 % pen items, one of which helps your entire team ( item 3071 ).

This means that building Armor is less useful than building magic resist. Especially considering that AD has crit as well.

But ooohhh wait, AP champs can get upwards of 700 AP while AD champs get max around 500 or so.

Doesn't matter if you factor in all the modifiers. This includes for AD: Crit RNG, 2 % pen to counter tanks, 3 Flat pen for squishies and tanks, and 1 armor reducer that takes 30% of your armor away Meanwhile AP only gets: Massive amounts of AP, one % pen item, 2 flat pen items, and a Flat MR reducer of 10-25 (based on level).

Bladerunner7777Oct 15, 20163 votes

............

if you lose to full AD teams and you're playing a tank then you're bad

edit: Forgot the boards were bad, sorry! (trigger warning)

1 800 Top LaneOct 15, 20165 votes

I'm going to have to downvote this comment.

The fact that a small amount of lifesteal counters thornmail completely invalidates your argument.

Gregor GysiOct 15, 20165 votes

Nah, you could also say thornmail counters lifesteal. Frankly, being a tank vs a full AD team is a huge advantage. You simply have 1 item more against their carries than usual. They also get forced to build ArPen ASAP instead of building lifesteal/crit. This means that your carries are way stronger against their carries as they don't have to rush ArPen. That means: early game is sort of equal - midgame is in your favor - lategame is in your favor (as their tank has to build MR aswell). It's certainly not a free win but it's a nice advantage. Unless, of course, they have a hard early/midgame comp and you picked some lategame teamfighters, in that case they might just snowball the game.

1 800 Top LaneOct 15, 20162 votes

And here is where I direct you to the [Delete Yasuo] posts.

3tysonOct 15, 20161 votes

got to agree her if enemy team picks ful ad and im playing sejuani or amumu the possibilitys are just endles my team can feed if they just dont do so to horribly its all cool i can decite to go for more dmg to kil them faster or i can go super tanky and laugh at what ever they trow at me

Bladerunner7777Oct 15, 20162 votes

GG ADCs have lifesteal, tanks are useless!!

item 3047 item 3068 item 3143 item 3110 item 3075 item 3083 or item 3026

if you're still dying to ADs that aren't Vayne then... ya bad

Spaceman5pffOct 16, 20162 votes

or Caitlyn with armor ignorance on her passive (which she uses VERY frequently with the net and trap mechanics)

or KogMaw dealing mixed damage with plenty of % hp

or Corki with mixed damage and shred

I'll do you the courtesy of not mentioning Kindred, since she USUALLY jungles and fits different rules.

DurfainOct 15, 20163 votes

Have an upvote. The amount of arpen (both % and flat) in this game is just disgusting right now. LW + BC + %pen mastery gives 65% bonus armor reduction. Basically, it turns your item 3110 into item 1029 which is exactly why we're seeing barely any tanks being played in LCS. It's kind of fucked up when it's better to build health even against an all AD team because it's more useful than armor...

Spaceman5pffOct 16, 20161 votes

I would hope we saw few tanks being played in LCS right now, same for any other type of champion, since LCS isn't even happening right now!

RamboDash15Oct 15, 20163 votes

I miss the days before this was such an issue.....

Season 3 Sees enemy team has all ad

Malphite "Rawk Solid" Taric "Outrageous" Rammus "Okay"

zacktootallOct 15, 20161 votes

Rammus Garen Blitzcrank Ryze Caitlyn

dunder killOct 15, 20166 votes

What is this? lol

zacktootallOct 15, 20163 votes

an armor tank team with some damage

SevixysOct 15, 20163 votes

Replace garen with malphite and I'm content

Spaceman5pffOct 16, 20162 votes

Malphite Rammus Ryze Ezreal Taric THERE is your armor team.

SevixysOct 16, 20161 votes

Does taric scale from armor anymore? That ez was a nice choice tho

Spaceman5pffOct 16, 20161 votes

taric DOES still scale with armor!

Unfortunately, his offensive armor scaling is no longer as high as it was, making is playability as a toplane counterpick pretty poor.

But it is still there defensively, perhaps stronger than before!

Champion SkinOct 15, 20163 votes

Why not Taric over Blitzcrank ? Since Taric has his W which increases his armor by up to 20% (and the ally he is linked with also gains as much bonus armor) And the damage on his passive and E scale with armor

zacktootallOct 17, 20161 votes

make better picks

buniesOct 15, 20161 votes

its less armor pen is strong, more ap pen is garbage

NineTailedMysticOct 15, 201617 votes

Magic Pen is fine. We get easily accessible 15 Flat Pen from boots, Void Staff is still 35% total MR, Abyssal is 15-25 reduction, we have Precision mastery, and we have Flat Pen Runes. Only Liandrie's is bad. Only in comparison to Armor Pen is Magic Pen "garbage". Between 20 Flat on Youmuu's, 10 Flat on Duskblade, 10 Flat on Maw, 30% reduction from Cleaver, 50% bonus Armor Pen, and then the runes/masteries bonuses. The fact that Armor Pen is so good is what creates the disparity between the two, rather than Magic Pen being bad.

Troll for TrumpOct 15, 20161 votes

But armor gets much more itemization than MR.

So it's like having two different scales.

You end up with tanks who build less MR, but there are also less Mpen items, so the three good MR items aren't nullified. AP also gets to become a larger number than AD.

Armor itemization is a lot more flexible, and you end up with tanks who have around 300 armor, so more armor pen is needed.

Armor items are just too good in comparison with MR items.

It's not that there's not enough M.pen or too much arm.pen, but more how the items arm. pen is tailored onto having much more flexibility than the m.pen items.

For example, Ap's "penetration item" is item 3135 . M. pen, and some Ap. That's it.

AD's "penetration item" has two build paths, with Lord Dominik's as well as Mortal Reminder. Lord Dominik's isn't THAT good, but the fact remains that they have a secondary option. Ads don't just get some penetration with dmg slapped onto it, but also an additional unique passive.

MunchCrunchLunchOct 16, 20161 votes

a jinx with no armor pen with 6 items can still shred adcs.

its more of a crit problem rather than armor pen

FoxstepOct 15, 20161 votes

Well, a full ad team shouldn't be an instant lose. It is just plain dumb when a game gets decided in champion selection. You don't deserve a win cause you picked rammus or malphite against a full ad team.

EndlessSorcererOct 15, 20163 votes

It has never been an instant loss. Full AD teams are great at taking down objectives due to their high sustained damage and most have a strong early to mid-game period.

Generally, you had to snowball to win.

That aside, players can and will get punished horribly for choosing bad team compositions.

For example, if you pick a team without hard CC or durability, you deserve to get rolled by the enemy Katarina and Master Yi.

LankPantsOct 15, 20167 votes

You don't deserve a win cause you picked rammus or malphite against a full ad team.

You kinda do, because it requires the enemy team to be dumb enough to draft full AD. There is such a thing as a draft so bad that you actually deserve to lose for it, when your team comp is Yas/Kha/Zed/Lucian you deserve to lose in champ select as long as the other teams comp isn't equally garbage.

What people mean when they say you shouldn't lose at champ select is that a single pick shouldn't lose you the game. You should be able to play any champ into any champ within reason, but of course if you draft 4 champs who are countered by a single stat you should basically lose on the spot, you did play badly since the draft is part of the game and decision making.