CertainlyT, why everyone hates him so much?

destroyer22719··9 votes·8,104 views
  1. Just because he is the father of Zoe andYasuo it doesn't mean he deserve cancer. To tell you the truth, I thought someone in the position of power would look at Zoe and then look at CertainlyT and go "Take that champion back to the drawing board." Or just a large number of designers speaking out on the failiure of this champion's design. I know you're all thinking "When Riot designed Pyke they wanted a darker champion that is a support." But it was (Shockingly) his Thresh that was league's first "dark" support. To tell you the truth, Pyke was a faliure and Thresh was a success. Riot confused "entitled" support with "true" support. I'm not sure what its called, but in other games say overwatch. Support isn't a role where you look and someone and just "play" them as a support and then become meta. If MyCree can't provide direct buffs like a Mercy to his team then he can't be a support. Thresh was a true support while also having that evil aspect thanks to his passive. But Pyke comes in and he ain't even a true support. Granting gold on your kills on your almost-identical-ultimate to Darius doesn't make you a true support. He was the lead designer on Warwick rework. But then again, Akali rework was sort of a fail. They increased strengths in her weaknesses that the killed the old Akali. Why am I defending this guy, I can't believe he didn't double-check on Zoe and go "150% AP scaling? On a spammy ability? Get a free summoner 4 item 3107 summoner 7 in lane and never lose? Perfectly balanced. Let's launch it on the PBE and ignore the community."

43 Comments

Frosted Tips11 votes

CertainlyT gets so much hate and no respect for his success.

Thresh after some tweaks is great.

Warwick after some tweaks is good.

He did original Darius so not really his anymore.

Yasuo is fine now besides windwall that needs a change.

Zoe I hate and I believe is a hypocritical champion because Nidalee got reworked because of her long range near oneshots.

Akali will be fine after preseason guaranteed.

He makes champions that people either love or hate he is a good designer just needs help to take back some unnecessary parts of his design.

destroyer227191 votes

{quoted}

Akali will be fine after preseason guaranteed.

A champion's success in winrate-pickrate doesn't determin a success. Every new or rework champion gets picked in competitive. I feel that CertainlyT certainly tried his best. But tried too hard he made a champion not like the old akali at all.

Frosted Tips1 votes

I did not say that win rate and pick rate or being picked in competitive is success. I think balance and game health mixed with how she feels to play and to play against is success and I think she is realitivly close to that just a few changes to get her there but that is obviously partially opinion based so not everyone will see it the same way

LoveBubbleButts6 votes

Thresh after some tweaks is great.

Took that crap 8 months of ability changes and tweaks might you add?

Warwick after some tweaks is good.

CertainlyT was really upset with how many restrictions they put on him, even though that was his best rework ever.

Yasuo is fine now besides windwall that needs a change.

Yasuo in general is not good which is a whole other post. Just to sum it up Q spammable possible weird ability mage thing, windwall to long, his E is basically on a no cooldown, & his R cuts armor by 50% and everyone has a knockup now.

Zoe I hate and I believe is a hypocritical champion because Nidalee got reworked because of her long range near oneshots.

Yes.

Akali will be fine after preseason guaranteed.

You clearly haven't watched TFBlade. The guy will literally force you from under tower at lvl 3 because he knows how to abuse turret, shroud, & minions. That thing shouldn't ignore turrets.

He makes champions that people either love or hate he is a good designer just needs help to take back some unnecessary parts of his design.

NO. He makes champions that you love to play but hate to play against, which is literally everysingle one of his champs. When you fight any other champion you used to get a sense of what you need to do to win but with Zoe it's RNG, with Yasuo it depends on how bad he is, & with thresh it used to be same and still is to some extent. Warwick is the only good example.

Frosted Tips1 votes

Took that crap 8 months of ability changes and tweaks might you add?

Yup not that bad for how much was going on in the game at that time and for bringing a new level of design that the game had not seen yet that completely reinvented the support role making people no dread playing. It's not like it was oh god we lost they got thresh it was just like oh this game will be a bit harder.

CertainlyT was really upset with how many restrictions they put on him, even though that was his best rework ever.

Ok and this goes against what I said how? He did his job and it is his design he was restricted which is what I suggest needs to be done to his champions.

You clearly haven't watched TFBlade. The guy will literally force you from under tower at lvl 3 because he knows how to abuse turret, shroud, & minions. That thing shouldn't ignore turrets.

There is a lot of time for them to fix her during preseason plus people still haven't gotten fully used to playing her or playing against her.

NO. He makes champions that you love to play but hate to play against, which is literally everysingle one of his champs. When you fight any other champion you used to get a sense of what you need to do to win but with Zoe it's RNG, with Yasuo it depends on how bad he is, & with thresh it used to be same and still is to some extent. Warwick is the only good example.

That is an opinion just like mine I don't find it frustrating to say against his champions except Zoe and Akali, but we both agree Zoe is terrible and imo akali mainly needs her time between stealth and restealthing to be extended.

LoveBubbleButts3 votes

I can't tell if you are stupid, or if you are just being really disingenuous

Frosted Tips2 votes

Why do you believe I'm stupid or disingenuous? Would really like to know.

LoveBubbleButts3 votes

There was not alot going on during that time with thresh.

Just because there is 'alot of time to fix something' does not give you permission to make such a bad mistake in the first place.

it is not an opinion of what is boring or not. feeling like you 'cant play the GAME' is not an opinion. it's the reason you queue up.

Just because he did his job does not justify the fact that he doesn't consider what will go in and affect the game. There are teams meant to catch things like that but they are both at fault. not just one person.

You're disingenuous

Frosted Tips1 votes

There was not alot going on during that time with thresh.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Season_Three

Just because there is 'alot of time to fix something' does not give you permission to make such a bad mistake in the first place.

Wants that bad and didn't take that long.

it is not an opinion of what is boring or not. feeling like you 'cant play the GAME' is not an opinion. it's the reason you queue up.

Thos statement makes no sense at all.

Just because he did his job does not justify the fact that he doesn't consider what will go in and affect the game. There are teams meant to catch things like that but they are both at fault. not just one person.

Never said he doesn't have fault but his is still good at designing.

You're disingenuous

I'm still wondering how so?

LoveBubbleButts1 votes

Yeah, we aren't going to keep talking. you are disingenuous af

KVbqbFsC8e1 votes

How come you didn't mention Kalista?

Frosted Tips1 votes

I was mainly doing this as a response to what OP posted.

Crimson Zeppelin1 votes

{quoted}

CertainlyT gets so much hate and no respect for his success.

Thresh after some tweaks is great.

Warwick after some tweaks is good.

He did original Darius so not really his anymore.

Yasuo is fine now besides windwall that needs a change.

Zoe I hate and I believe is a hypocritical champion because Nidalee got reworked because of her long range near oneshots.

Akali will be fine after preseason guaranteed.

He makes champions that people either love or hate he is a good designer just needs help to take back some unnecessary parts of his design.

Nobody admits a genius when they see it.

LoveBubbleButts2 votes

wait you play quite a bit of Zoe. hmmmm

Crimson Zeppelin1 votes

[{quoted}](name=MuayThai H,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R4M2cMvR,comment-id=000000050000,timestamp=2018-08-29T19:40:43.251+0000)

wait you play quite a bit of Zoe. hmmmm

So what? If you do not want others opinions, don't come to the boards

LoveBubbleButts2 votes

It's not that. I just understand why you seem so biased now. It's because you are. Lmao

Crimson Zeppelin1 votes

[{quoted}](name=MuayThai H,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R4M2cMvR,comment-id=00000005000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-30T15:02:08.228+0000)

It's not that. I just understand why you seem so biased now. It's because you are. Lmao

I play more than one midlane champion. Kid

ZapMyHeart6 votes

{quoted}

He makes champions that people either love or hate he is a good designer just needs help to take back some unnecessary parts of his design.

He's technically a poor designer, if he needs someone to constantly hold his hand to strip out unnecessary parts of a champion's kit. You'd think with all the negative feedback he received from previous kits and the praises from the WW rework, he'd learn.

But ego is a very limiting thing.

A great designer knows how to be innovative, but at the same time, looks at the bigger picture in relation to how the kit is going to interact with the rest of the champions.

Majority of champions have some form of weakness. CertainlyT's kits removes a lot of potential weakness by applying on additional safeguards.

Which means, playing the champion is fun. But a major headache for the opponents.

This is quite unhealthy for the game, as majority of the pool don't run that way.

CertainlyT would be great for DotA/2. He's quite bad for LoL.

Frosted Tips1 votes

I did not say that he needs someone to hold his hand. He needs someone to review his champions with criticism. He does overload them because he is throwing out so many good ideas. And then the community and the rest of Riot decide what people dislike the most and what is the least needed to be satisfying. I would rather see 20 CertainlyT champions in a row than practically any other designer. Also being a designer is much different than being a balancer. He wants people to love playing his champs. And he does that. That is why his champions regardless of win rates have high play rates which is a good designer in my book.

ZapMyHeart4 votes

{quoted}

I did not say that he needs someone to hold his hand. He needs someone to review his champions with criticism. He does overload them because he is throwing out so many good ideas. And then the community and the rest of Riot decide what people dislike the most and what is the least needed to be satisfying. I would rather see 20 CertainlyT champions in a row than practically any other designer. Also being a designer is much different than being a balancer. He wants people to love playing his champs. And he does that. That is why his champions regardless of win rates have high play rates which is a good designer in my book.

Needing someone to review his champions with criticism is the same as holding his hand. A great designer doesn't need that. Maybe an occasional look at the values from the balance team, however, the ideas themselves should be solid; not this mess that he constantly puts out when he doesn't have someone else on the team with him to reel him back.

And to be honest, anyone can overload a kit and call themselves a genius designer if that's the case.

Keep in mind, they force a 50% winrate on his champions only because players like the flashy-ness. Nerf his champions to Azir/Kalista levels and watch all hell break loose.

To reiterate, he's a poor designer for LoL. Probably amazing for DotA/2.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

He did original Darius so not really his anymore.

didnt he also do darius rework during the juggernaut update?

pretty sure that still makes the champion 100% his own.

also, darius is definitely a success.

SangreDeNoche4 votes

{quoted}

CertainlyT gets so much hate and no respect for his success.

Thresh after some tweaks is great.

Warwick after some tweaks is good.

He did original Darius so not really his anymore.

Yasuo is fine now besides windwall that needs a change.

Zoe I hate and I believe is a hypocritical champion because Nidalee got reworked because of her long range near oneshots.

Akali will be fine after preseason guaranteed.

He makes champions that people either love or hate he is a good designer just needs help to take back some unnecessary parts of his design.

SOME tweaks? you're bullshitting. Thresh was strong for yeeeeeeeeeears. He had to lose most of his damage and tank stats because his cc and lantern made him TOO GOOD AT EVERYTHING and that's the problem. CertainlyT champs never stop being good at anything until you hit them with the nerf bat EVERYWHERE until they resemble the rest of the 100 or so champ pool not made/reworked by certainlyT.

Trusting1 votes

[deleted]

Paroe1 votes

{quoted}

necroooo jajajaajaj this is rly funny akali? fine? LOOOL 2020

Realtalk: Akali is below par but people still blindly hate on her because they refuse to play around her and demand that akali play around them. Also, where are all you necro posters coming from?!

Blåbæret5 votes

Why? I'll tell you with a picture.

Yasuo

FPSKILLERBOB5 votes

TL;DR Someone's said this before about him: He designs great characters... for a single player game.

Longer text: CertainlyT is a designer that emphasizes fun for the player at the expense of their opponents. This is bad multiplayer game design for reasons I shouldn't have to explain. He also makes completely overloaded kits with multiple passives and little counterplay.

As a comparison, take Bayonetta. She's incredibly fun to play in her own game, being super fast, powerful, and long ranged. Now what happens if you put that in a fighting game like Smash? She's busted beyond belief even after multiple nerfs. CertainlyT makes champions like that. It's unhealthy for the game.

Mordepool4 votes

Mordekaiser worst Rework in League history.

That's my Reason

Infernape3 votes

Fun fact: CT creates these champs but actually hates playing against them. He legit despises playing against Thresh. He has no self awareness.

Aside from that, what I don't get is how Zoe made it past playtesting and was released in that state. It's like no one at Riot said "she might be quite unfair to play against".

She breaks one of Riot's "five pillars on what makes a successful champion", being (un)fair to play against. This isn't even accounting for the fact that she breaks known interactions in League (being able to recast Q when she's unable to cast).

jocomotion3 votes

You forgot to mention Mordekaiser and how he basically made him a bug magnet by adding nothing but bells and whistles.

TheCodeisCupCake2 votes

Because champions he makes are fun to play as and not against.

I say this as a Darius main that used to main Warwick and Yasuo

Moody P2 votes

pyke wasn't designed as a "true support," he's a champion that's meant to be an outlier design for a different role than a traditional support. Considering Thresh needed to be nerfed HARD several times before he stopped being the absolute best support, I don't think I would call him a success.

Child of the Pit2 votes

I actually look up to CertainlyT, as someone who designs his own champs as a hobby, i can see his love in creating unique champions, and the effort he puts into them.

Even tho i ... certainly dislike playing against his champions, i still admire his creativity.

Frosted Tips1 votes

That is a good way to look at it and I agree with him loving his creative designs.

SEKAI2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Child of the Pit,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R4M2cMvR,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-08-29T01:34:35.645+0000)

I actually look up to CertainlyT, as someone who designs his own champs as a hobby, i can see his love in creating unique champions, and the effort he puts into them.

Even tho i ... certainly dislike playing against his champions, i still admire his creativity.

His creativity is mostly restricted to either coming up with 1 gimmick for each of their design and then steal the rest from other existing champs and patch them together, or coming up with 1 gameplay theme and then radicalise the hell out of with without a single brake or consideration. They basically is doing "how to NOT design 101", as it's more akin to a key with a crayon pack than an actual designer.

DragonShea2 votes

CertainlyT is an extremist in his gameplay design instead he likes to add flashy abilities in his champs kit. On one hand he is a pioneer in game design and adds interesting and cool abilities to his champ. On the other hand he goes too far and creates broken champions that have a negative impact on the game. It's the latter that people FUCKING HATE about him.

That's it in a nutshell.

Sire Hippington2 votes

Mostly becuase her tends to overload his designs and give them to many tools to work around their weaknesses. Thing with him and his designs is that he would be an awsome PvE dev as his designs are fun to play, but he completely ignores one very important aspekt for PvP: the playing against experience. Most of his creations really feel bad to play against, especially when they are played at a high level. This isn't an unique issue for him but applies to most of riots designs since S5, but he was one of the first and has some of the most infamous designs between zed, yasuo and zoe...

Paroe2 votes

@thread

Design =/= numbers.

When will people get it through their skulls that designers dont really have much say in fine numbers? Zoe can be balanced - with numbers. A refocus on her Q, removing ignite from her W, reducing the duration of her E 'trap', increasing the cooldown of her E in general... Mostly numbers. Ideally she would also have the whole 'trap' thing removed entirely, though.

SEKAI6 votes

{quoted}

@thread

Design =/= numbers.

When will people get it through their skulls that designers dont really have much say in fine numbers? Zoe can be balanced - with numbers. A refocus on her Q, removing ignite from her W, reducing the duration of her E 'trap', increasing the cooldown of her E in general... Mostly numbers. Ideally she would also have the whole 'trap' thing removed entirely, though.

Apologist copy-paste response again.

First of all, CertainlyT rarely are actually broken because of the numbers, but most of the time it's the fundamental design of the champs. Zoe will always be broken unless she's chopped into non-functioning pieces that hardly resembles her initial pitch; Yasuo's kit will always be a balance and gameplay nightmare as long as he's not gutted into obscurity or remade entirely given he has way too many questionable designs all crammed into 1; Kalista will always be completely broken to the core and needs a complete remake; Morde rework is a literal junk and easily the worst rework in Riot's history by a very long shot that is only actually playable atm because Riot has reverted most of the horrible things CertainlyT has done to Morde; you get the idea. When your shitty creation can only ever be actually balance-able by remaking them from scratch, that is not a number problem. So this apologetic defence is not even working. Oh, if you are going to bring out Warwick rework, no; because the rework was mostly made by Reav3 while using CertainlyT has their proxy, hence the drastically different design ideology exhibited and ironically the only actually balance-able design from CertainlyT's catalogue.

Secondly, a designer is still responsible for the balance of their creation, especially on the front that the designer has to create BALANCE-ABLE champs that the balance team can actually work with; which CertainlyT has definitely failed at time and time again. Unless you believe it is the editor's job to write the god damn story and the writer only needs to come up with loose idea of the story as well as that writers have no responsibility to make their drafts actually comprehensible for the editors to fix (which are all utterly false btw), then CertainlyT will never be a designer let alone a good designer.

A designer with a consistent history of having 0 idea of what they're doing despite being in a senior position, and almost every single creation has varying levels of obvious plagiarism/cannibalism of other champs in the very same game, is not what we call a good designer. He's a hack, a kid with a crayon pack who doodles primitive pre-school nonsense on a paper, but getting paid in 6 figures for doing it, and somehow apparently getting showered with praises for his creative insight by being an absolute hack too for some reason.

Agent Corgi1 votes

I think the only reason he gets so much heat is because alot if his champion designs are fun to play as, but not to play against.

Personally, I've never had a problem with ThreshThresh or WarwickWarwick . Thresh is a very well designed support that has everything you'd want in a Tank Support, although I hear from some that he was problematic in Season 3.

Warwick was designed to be an Entry-Level Jungler and I think the rework did him absolute justice. He didn't receive a single Nerf/buff until after Runes Reforged was released, that speaks for itself.

Whenever Kalista Kalista is in a good place, she's always nerfed due to "Pro-Play". I accept DariusDarius as he is & given that I'm fully aware of what he's capable of, I don't have all that much to say about him.

When it comes to YasuoYasuo , you can tell good ones from the novices. The players that are skilled with him are absolute monsters at him & can be pretty difficult to play against.

Finally there's her, Zoe Zoe . I personally don't hate her, but she should not have been released in her current state.

Blyted1 votes

Old Darius I miss you so much*[cass-cry]*

ModPeriscope1 votes

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