I think i know what Jayces problem is.

Rivuo·Oct 28, 2016·22 votes·2,372 views

When he does his combo, at the end he knocks you back while you are slowed too. It makes it extremely hard to retaliate because he will just walk away so in theory he usually wins the trade no matter what.

From what i see, his mana costs can be pretty high, but you'll take so much damage that it's hard to even stay in lane.

His poke might do a bit too much damage i think, considering the utility in his kit ( ccs ) that can save himself.

Maybe lower the slow percentage on the Q, and just a bit of damage on the poke.

Because it doesnt feel right to get 100-0d while being CCd

61 Comments

Dominick DestineOct 28, 20167 votes

Nerf Jayce.

OelykOct 29, 20161 votes

Nerf his popularity, too damn handsome.

GULAG 4 UOct 28, 20166 votes

Jayce is that ranged top who has ms boosts and poke yet he manages to beat you at melee range too.

YussupOct 28, 20161 votes

ikr

ChalizardOct 28, 20164 votes

His knockback doesn't slow you, his Q does and the main problem is that he has been picked in worlds. But honestly we should wait till new season imo as they will change armor pene and if you really want to nerf something, it should be rather his damage as he can miss in mid game his Q+E and still is able to kill someone in few seconds or lower his defensive stats but don't take his slow, it's pointless, he can still knock you back and speed up himself.

Pierce The VealOct 28, 20163 votes

{quoted}

His knockback doesn't slow you, his Q does and the main problem is that he has been picked in worlds. But honestly we should wait till new season imo as they will change armor pene and if you really want to nerf something, it should be rather his damage as he can miss in mid game his Q+E and still is able to kill someone in few seconds or lower his defensive stats but don't take his slow, it's pointless, he can still knock you back and speed up himself.

I feel like lethality is a buff to Jayce because he is gonna continue hurting like a truck late game because of it.

Imagine armorpen runes + 60 lethality (I think that was the max). That's 79 armor pen. Basically dealing true damage to anyone who doesn't build armor or have a lot in runes+masteries.

LoLKiruOct 28, 20169 votes

{quoted}

I feel like lethality is a buff to Jayce because he is gonna continue hurting like a truck late game because of it.

He will, but he'll also take a hit to his early game (which is the entire reason armor pen builds have been so popular, because they make your early game stronger; allowing you to transition to lategame easier)

If he's going for a lategame build, theres probably better things he can pick up besides Lethality items (kinda like Jhin's armor pen VS crit build, crit is MUCH better for his lategame, armor pen build is stronger in the early game).

Edit: As far as I know, armor pen runes are being replaced with Lethality Runes; could be mistaken though.

Pierce The VealOct 28, 20163 votes

Looked it up. Lethality runes are designed to break even at level 9, so that means they give, hmm 30% more armor pen at max level. Oh brilliant, they've been nerfed.

LoLKiruOct 28, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Looked it up. Lethality runes are designed to break even at level 9, so that means they give, hmm 30% more armor pen at max level. Oh brilliant, they've been nerfed.

I genuinely can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not with that last part.

That said, theres no doubt they're stronger in the mid to lategame, but the entire reason armor pen is so heavily desired right now, is because it makes your early game stronger; so its wise to wait and see what happens to champions who were buying armor pen for the early game spike, when its changed to lethality.

Pierce The VealOct 28, 20163 votes

{quoted}

I genuinely can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not with that last part.

That said, theres no doubt they're stronger in the mid to lategame, but the entire reason armor pen is so heavily desired right now, is because it makes your early game stronger; so its wise to wait and see what happens to champions who were buying armor pen for the early game spike, when its changed to lethality.

I had a touch of sarcasm in that I don't think it's brilliant. They don't compare in strength to per level runes, but they aren't flat power either. They were already less powerful than flat AD 70% of the time, now that's still the case but they're even weaker overall.

Sire HippingtonOct 29, 20161 votes

....break even at level 9

Remember that it's the level of the target and not the user for lethality, so the xp advantage that jayce usually gets doesn't help him for lethality.

Pierce The VealOct 29, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Cingulum,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QoULo7gU,comment-id=00000000000000000001,timestamp=2016-10-29T00:19:35.176+0000)

Remember that it's the level of the target and not the user for lethality, so the xp advantage that jayce usually gets doesn't help him for lethality.

All the more reason the runes have been gutted.

Unless the runes get at least twice as much lethality as they had armor pen then it's an utter gut to those runes.

OelykOct 29, 20161 votes

xp advantage? sense when.

Sire HippingtonOct 29, 20161 votes

Beeing a toplaner with strong laneingphase that excells at splitpushing usually leads to haveing the highest xp in the game(unless theres a nida and maybe reksai in the game)

OelykOct 30, 20161 votes

I see your logic. However I think that only applies to self toplaners(who are good in their own sense), who use TP back to lane and other things.

SpoofghoulOct 29, 20161 votes

you could get 87 flatpen/lethality lategegame j

but then riot changed the mastery and the runes and shave some pen off of items

so now you get like 77 lethality lategame

RivuoOct 28, 20163 votes

{quoted}

His knockback doesn't slow you, his Q does and the main problem is that he has been picked in worlds. But honestly we should wait till new season imo as they will change armor pene and if you really want to nerf something, it should be rather his damage as he can miss in mid game his Q+E and still is able to kill someone in few seconds or lower his defensive stats but don't take his slow, it's pointless, he can still knock you back and speed up himself.

Leaps to an enemy dealing 40/80/120/160/200/240 (+120% bonus Attack Damage) physical damage to nearby enemies and slowing them by 30/35/40/45/50/55% for 2 seconds.

Yeah you are correct. But i think the problem is that the slow needs to be lowered a bit, its as if you are being combod-cc-d and high damaged without the ability to retaliate because of the slow, even the knockback says

''fuck you ima do my shit and you cant do anything about it'' other than that i dont have a problem

OelykOct 29, 20161 votes

This is a strong ability, but it has amazing long cooldown at lower levels, plus its dodge able, Hence it has weaknesses, plus its a strong solo ability than team fighting. Don't forget this guy doesn't have an ultimate.

HazyCloud7Oct 29, 20164 votes

This post is just totally meaningless. The problem with Jayce is that he no longer has to invest 750 gold into Tear because his mana costs were reduced over the course of the last few months. It makes his laning phase too strong.

When you get a little bit of armor his EQ doesn't really hurt that much. Nerfing it would hurt him a lot considering poke is suppose to be a big asset he brings to the team.

Doesn't feel right to be 100'd while CCed...you ever heard of Veigar or Lux? And it's not hard cc either, this is a QQ post if I've ever seen one.

OelykOct 29, 20162 votes

Literally his E got flat scaling even though any wise Jayce will max it last and use it sparingly. its a 50 mana difference. big whoop.

WoonStruckOct 29, 20161 votes

This is incorrect.

His mana costs were barely changed. He never needed to go Tear. People just realized that if you don't spam cannon E+Q, you don't need it and can build full AD. Since he was balanced around building Tear early, his bases were, frankly, completely absurd.

HazyCloud7Oct 29, 20161 votes

Do your research before spewing complete non-sense please. I said: his mana costs were reduced over the course of several patches. Now for the cold hard facts:

6.6: Q mana cost: 40/45/50/55/60 mana ⇒ 40 mana at all ranks 5.22: Base Mana: 307.2 ⇒ 357.2 6.17: Thunder Blow Mana cost reduced to 40 at all ranks from 40 / 50 / 60 / 70 / 80 / 90.

Those changes add up, and if he wasn't given them he would absolutely have to build tear right now.

WoonStruckOct 30, 20162 votes

I did.

Q's change barely changed his all-in costs, which is the majority of why he's strong during laning atm. Its not like you end up spamming it so it actually becomes significant. This ability is practically only used during all-ins.
Base mana increased by 50, again, doesn't change how strong he is in lane. One extra ability cast does not make or break things for experienced players because all of the abilities would likely be cast in conjunction with each other.
E is left at rank 1 until level 13 anyway. Doesn't affect laning.

**He would not at all have to build tear any more or less with or without those changes. **

They obviously help, but they are not significant enough to change itemization requirements or what he's capable of.

Learn how the game works before spewing complete non-sense please.

HazyCloud7Oct 30, 20161 votes

Learn how the game works before spewing complete non-sense please.

OelykOct 30, 20161 votes

TO be honest, only the last one is affects his sudden popularity, I played him tearless before the mana buffs. I gave the tears to the enemy laner instead ha.

DunkinNoobsOct 28, 20163 votes

You're listing "problems" that Jayce has had even when he was terrible. The problem is that his damage is overtuned slightly and nothing else.

Sire HippingtonOct 29, 20161 votes

Na, his kit is a problem, his overtuned damage just makes it apparent. Befor the damage buffs he recived, he was barely played and had a not that great winrate.

He's the kind of champion that either stays generally weak or gets complained about because of how frustraiting it is to lane gainst him as soon as he's strong.

OelykOct 29, 20161 votes

The meta made Jayce popular(being the hunk he is), his damage basically is the same, just added an extra 100 or so damage late game. His qwe have no damage changes for a while now, so your not really making sense, his abilities are high solo effect, so of course your gonna get owned mid game trying to solo him.

UrPalAlOct 31, 20161 votes

Let me explain why he's strong as a 3 year Jayce main: His scaling mana cost on his e was removed.

That's it, pack it up boys we're done here.

OK, but actually, let me explain. This buff was a wet dream, and though it doesn't seem massive, it was. Jayce since his conception has been gated by extremely intense mana costs, they still are quite high too, but the buff made them just low enough so that you can make it through laning phase without manamune. This meant a much more powerful early game, and a still powerful mid-game. And especially in competitive play, where games are short, this was perfect for Jayce.

OelykNov 1, 20161 votes

If you maxed E second and used it as often as possible, Yes it's a dream buff. However, if you don't max it second(and you should do this) The mana scaling does not chance till level 13. At that point Jayce has a sizeable base mana pool, PLus probably got a blue buff somewhere in their. His mana gate is mostly in his QE (which I believe scales up to around 130 mana per cast), which has not changed for a while.

Hate me for this, But in competitive 50 Extra mana at LEVEL 18(late game) was miniscule. I don't think removing 50 extra mana per cast was suddenly OMG WE CAN SKIP MANAMUNE, I did that before the buff anyhow.

UrPalAlNov 4, 20161 votes

Except it allowed e maxed second to be a popular way to build. Against tanks, e is much more effective, as well as for short trades. Especially with the ratio buff, it meant Jayce had a lot of burst. Jump, proc passive, and knockback and run away with a gate to q without being stopped, courtesy of stronraiders, which became the favored mastery on Jayce for this very reason.

OelykNov 4, 20161 votes

Although maxing is is popular, the effectiveness is only at a one v one perspective and basically just insentivises extra damage on a disengage spell, even more weaknesses.

UrPalAlNov 4, 20161 votes

That's kinda the idea though. You jump in, burst, knockback, and then swap to range and pummel them. In the case of tanky fighters, all you do is disengage and retreat, then rinse and repeat.

Also, you can use Jayce's ghosting ability to just run through them and knock them towards your tower, you don't necessarily have to disengage.

LovelleOct 29, 20162 votes

Just revert his latest buffs, that's all that's really needed. Part of the reason he can even get away with half of what he does is due to how strong penetration is.

OelykOct 30, 20161 votes

What does penetration have to do with mana and 100 ish extra damage.

LovelleOct 30, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lazy cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QoULo7gU,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2016-10-30T02:48:53.781+0000)

What does penetration have to do with mana and 100 ish extra damage.

Jayce's power fluctuates with the power of penetration. He's but a byproduct of a much larger problem. Penetration is too strong and defensive itemization and scaling are not strong enough. In my opinion, penetration stacking should just be removed.

OelykOct 30, 20161 votes

Not what Im talking about. Why do his latest buffs have to do with penetration, they dont change AD scalings at all. (hammer r does AP)

KoKobotoOct 29, 20161 votes

Yeah I think bringing the slow to a flat % like 30-40 would be good or less.

The cooldown goes to like 3.6s after 40%cdr and the slow lasts for 2s so it doesn't need the slow.

OelykOct 30, 20161 votes

The thing is, Once he commits to hammer form its a long ish cool down, so if you dodge the first one as a ranged carry with flash hes kinda screwed.

KoKobotoOct 30, 20161 votes

He's only screwed if he gets hard CC'd when going in hammer because he gains 40% move speed and is ghosted so he they flash out of the Q Jayce isn't just stuck there he can walk away. Unless he already transformed, regardless he would have 40% move speed going in or out unless the Jayce is screwing up his transformation timing

OelykOct 30, 20161 votes

"he is Ghost ghosted and gains 40 bonus movement speed for 1.25 seconds." - from lol wiki

the cast time for Q is 0.7 seconds(YEAH THATS HUGE) How much ghost do you think he has left over. Plus its really slow(if you compared 40 ms to Jayce with boots(380), thats only a little more that 10%)

You don't know Jayce like I do.

KoKobotoOct 30, 20161 votes

Yeah but if Jayce is going in with Hammer he most often has phage and yommus, if they dodge all of the damage that should be enough time for jayce to react with the remaining time he has movement speed to back off

OelykNov 1, 20161 votes

If you can play the game, And are playing a champ appropriate against Jayce, speed doesnt matter, If you not playing an appropriate champion, well, RIP you.

Just gonna say, although he is relatively safe, Any mobility creep champion has the tools to mess him up.

UrPalAlOct 29, 20161 votes

Why the hell is everyone going crazy this soon? Keep in mind the dude was perfectly balanced (if not a bit weak) before the ratio buff to his ult and mana cost changes.

I don't think gutting the rest of his kit is the best solution, just lower the ratio of his ult. Or better yet, wait to see how pre-season affects him.

OelykOct 30, 20162 votes

He is not weak, But the buff were really miniscule, its jsut that a lot of people realized that these buffs could make him op, even though he was already strong, hence back into the meta.

UrPalAlOct 31, 20161 votes

He wasn't super powerful actually (though he was slowly working his way into the meta as others got nerfed), there was one reason he became strong: No scaling mana cost on his e

While this made his gameplay feel much better, it meant he was no longer required to purchase manamune, so he can rush damage and stomp in lane and mid-game.

I don't like the idea of him being dependent on one item, that's annoying as shit, I'd just rather them revert the ultimate buff they gave him.

OelykNov 1, 20161 votes

Dude... Manamune was never a required Item on jayce, I dont believe removing 50 mana per cast at level 18 (which you maybe use like max 8 times before each back, if your careless with it, and like 1-3 times in teamfights) suddenly justifies skipping a 1000 mana item, which you could do before no problem.

ScorpionexOct 29, 20161 votes

No the only problem jayce has is yomus; yomus literally breaks him because he literally gives him everything he needs. As,arp,cdr,ad, and movespeed its literally perfect for him and he is not the only one that abuses the item which is why we need to wait for the assassin rework for any changes to him because once he looses that item or its not as strong he will fall out of favor

OelykOct 30, 20161 votes

Its perfect for a lot of champs, and yes its a core item for him, like ravenous for riven, and thornmail for rammus or something, whoever else comments on mine give more examples, Im lazy AF.

ItsOrvalOct 30, 20161 votes

Have you tried picking a champ that has sustain and can tank Jayce's wombo combos? That usually works better than squishy hybrid champs.