Vampirism is a tier 3 utility mastery with 3 ranks.
ok how it is supposed to be usefull ,? Requires 8 points in Utility
maybe can be used on 
or 
, but its not worth the 8 point when u can get better stats in defense or offense .
rework ?
edit : take tankyness and hp regen in defense is more worth , need maths
RiotRiotRepertoir37 votesSomething about the utility being less focused strictly on combat stats does make it feel as though you're leaving something on the table whenever you go deep into it as anything but a support (there are probably some other exceptions as well). For Vampirism specifically, it does feel odd that its best synergies are with high offense builds, but heavy offense masteries block you from getting the full benefit of this mastery.
It is, however, possible that 3% Lifesteal/Spellvamp would just be broken in any position that let you get it with offense masteries. I wouldn't go so far as to say we should be reworking the mastery into something else entirely, because I honestly don't know if it is regularly used to success.
How many of you guys and gals find themselves taking Vampirism and feeling good about it? On which champions? And does your final mastery split usually send you to at least 21 points in Utility? Or just far enough to get these?
Lt Streko3 votesSomething about the utility being less focused strictly on combat stats does make it feel as though you're leaving something on the table whenever you go deep into it as anything but a support (there are probably some other exceptions as well). For Vampirism specifically, it does feel odd that its best synergies are with high offense builds, but heavy offense masteries block you from getting the full benefit of this mastery.
It is, however, possible that 3% Lifesteal/Spellvamp would just be broken in any position that let you get it with offense masteries. I wouldn't go so far as to say we should be reworking the mastery into something else entirely, because I honestly don't know if it is regularly used to success.
How many of you guys and gals find themselves taking Vampirism and feeling good about it? On which champions? And does your final mastery split usually send you to at least 21 points in Utility? Or just far enough to get these?
When i first started playing the game I would put a point in vampirism to help me with sustain, because I love being able to stay in my lane longer. The fact is once I removed a point from this mastery and put it to the buff duration, I didn't even notice a difference in my sustain at all. If you want better sustain/healing your better off taking biscuits, plus you get some mana from them.
RomanorumLegio6 votesAs a side note, it is fun to go Morgana mid with spellvamp runes, and vampirism so you walk into lane with 19% spell vamp (add Hextech Gunblade in to have 49% speelvamp by level 13 ;p)
Starcall Casey8 votes14/0/14 leaves you with 2 mastery points left? are you sure you're silver and not pre-level 30?
Auryiel4 votesI mean... Hextech Gunblade Morg XD
RomanorumLegio4 votesBy no means for tryharding, just a fun gimmick due to it's sheer stupidity. XD
RomanorumLegio8 votesWoops, that's a typo there, sorry. I meant 15/0/15. I edited the original post.
Vekkna1 votesDoesn't spellvamp cap at 40%? Pretty sure it does, so if you're building a vamp item, you're just wasting runes and masteries on Morg.
I also run a 15/0/15 build as support on 
I'll sometimes swap to that mastery setup if I'm playing any of those champ in mid against something like a 
It works to hold a lane when you probably won't be winning it anyway. It's also useful against AD champs when building a 
is not helpful. You can actually rush a 
and not be permanently oom, or you can build a 
first and move on to pure damage.
Champion Skin5 votesThere is no cap at spell vamp... it is just a really hard to get stat which usually don't even help all that much
50000000000000001 votesCDR caps at 40%, not spellvamp.
Kosm1K2 votesI honestly have only used Vampirism on Talon, mainly due to my mastery tree for AD assassins being 21/0/9 for AD assassins because I focus try to focus on building damage and movement speed in order to gank other lanes
N0TY0U1 votesI doubt that would be the case. We can get more from Spellvamp/Lifesteal quints and they aren't very popular(that might be partly because they are so fucking expensive!!!). I just wish I grab some LifeSteal/SpellVamp on champion whom don't grab either on their item build. Or actually I would like to have more general flexibility in my mastery. If I had 2 or 3 extra points I would be able to do go 21/2/9 or 21/5/5(extra sustain in the jungle while keeping tough skin) 21/0/11(for full vampire) or get points on the side on something I want to have but can't afford to get because I need the points for an other mastery path.
Thryale1 voteseh, I have 3 of both types of quints, and I don't use either anymore.
I'd say they are 'expensive' but not just in terms of IP bot also opportunity cost. ATM there are just too many other quints that are so much more valuable. :/
Sire Hippington1 votesi feel like mergeing the quits together into 1 quint granting 1% lifsteal + 1% spellvamp would make them a bit more interesting choice
Skias1 votesSomething about the utility being less focused strictly on combat stats does make it feel as though you're leaving something on the table whenever you go deep into it as anything but a support (there are probably some other exceptions as well). For Vampirism specifically, it does feel odd that its best synergies are with high offense builds, but heavy offense masteries block you from getting the full benefit of this mastery.
It is, however, possible that 3% Lifesteal/Spellvamp would just be broken in any position that let you get it with offense masteries. I wouldn't go so far as to say we should be reworking the mastery into something else entirely, because I honestly don't know if it is regularly used to success.
How many of you guys and gals find themselves taking Vampirism and feeling good about it? On which champions? And does your final mastery split usually send you to at least 21 points in Utility? Or just far enough to get these?
Cant say ive noticed it even on my supports.
Partholonian1 votesCant say ive noticed it even on my supports.
Don't you mean "especially on my supports"? Percentage lifesteal and spellvamp that depends on the damage you do is going to be least effective on a class that doesn't build damage and spends more time not attacking.
Maybe it's intended for junglers? But they really need defense...
Skias1 votesDon't you mean "especially on my supports"? Percentage lifesteal and spellvamp that depends on the damage you do is going to be least effective on a class that doesn't build damage and spends more time not attacking.
Maybe it's intended for junglers? But they really need defense...
You are correct my dear friend. It's a very offense based mastery to just be stuck so high in the support tree. It was basically moved there just so 21/9 and 9/21 couldn't take advantage of it on top of their given build. It's on the top shelf so now no one enjoys it. To be honest, I'm not a fan of the mastery at all anyways. I would rather have a free biscuit or something.
Darkwind1 votesI've tried it a lot of places, and it's never been satisfying anywhere but in the jungle. If you go 9/9/12, you get most of the early offensive and defensive stats you might be used to, and you'll also get Runic Affinity and Alchemist as a bonus. It's mostly useful on heavy farm junglers who want to chill in the jungle for a long time in between recalls. Even then it's not amazing, just viable.
I don't feel like allowing people to get the spellvamp/lifesteal AND offensive masteries at the same time is a good idea, though. Most likely the sustain would either be strong enough to be relevant, in which case you'd HAVE to take it, or it wouldn't be that powerful and would remain uncommon. There are a lot of sustain masteries out there already, though, so I'm not sure that just making it into another sustain mastery would be ideal, either.
At the moment, supports tend to take 17 points into utility without very much variation in what they take high in the tree. The first 8 points in the tree are pretty variable, but in tiers 3, 4, and 5, they'll grab Greed, Culinary Master, Scavenger, Wealth, and Bandit every time. That will leave you with 2 points to allocate somewhere. Ideally, I think it would be nice if supports had a choice Inspiration, Meditation, and Vampirism. If those three were changed to be balanced with each other- and I'm not sure how you'd do that- and each had a cap of 2 points, you'd essentially have to choose between them. Meditation would help you poke more if mana gated you, Vampirism would help you trade more, and Inspiration would help you keep up in levels if you roam more.
Both Vampirism and Inspiration feel pretty weak- but more so Inspiration. As it stands, it would take 5 minutes of standing next to a higher level champion to get from level 1 to level 2. That doesn't sound that bad, but it would take over 30 minutes to level from level 17 to 18 from this mastery. It just doesn't do very much. Even for 2 points, that's not worth it. Not sure how much it would have to be buffed to be valuable, but I'd definitely want it more powerful.
Icestar11861 votesBuffed Inspiration would be pretty good with new Mordekaiser and his bonus exp thingy.
LeeDark2 votesHonestly, when I put the points elsewhere, I don't notice the lack of vamp or spellvamp. When I take points out of health in defense or the buff duration in utility to get Vampirism, I DO notice the loss of those.
Tigersight1 votesHow many of you guys and gals find themselves taking Vampirism and feeling good about it? On which champions? And does your final mastery split usually send you to at least 21 points in Utility? Or just far enough to get these?
The only setup I regularly use (that doesn't go 21 deep in anything) is my 15/0/15 page just for Syndra. 15 in offense is just enough to get the +%ap mastery, and the 15 in utility for %missing mana regen. Although, I only take 2 points in vampirism since I like the health biscuit mastery. :3
Poske1 votes21/0/9 should give us access to it ... And by that I mean all 3 points
If there were a single change I would do with masteries I would do that
CrazedPorcupine1 votesThe only champions I take Vampirism on is Morde and Vlad. Akali get's so much Spell vamp on her own that she doesn't need Vampirism (in fact you can get more Spell vamp by speccing more heavily into the offense tree to get some AD.). I mean, honestly it's not worth the points on anyone but Morde and Vlad.
HI IM DAISY 832 votesThe talent is near useless, as the health potion and total biscuit give more sustain then 1 or even 2 points in Vampirism ever would.
I feel the Health Regen in Defense Tree should be switched with this, and Vampirism should be in the same tier as 1.5% health, since most offense trees put at least 7 points into defense anyway and find that last point fairly useless.
iainB852 votesI've tried it alongside vampirism quints on 
and 
quite a bit. Who better to utilize it than champions not gated by mana... right?!
It being percentage based means the effect it has early game is hardly noticeable at all.
By late game you might notice it a little bit, but if the little bit of sustain helped you actually survive and/or win a team fight? Hard to tell... so still not very satisfying.
What does feel painfully obvious is the damage and kill potential you sacrifice by not going 21 points into the offensive tree (not to mention DANGEROUS GAME -- the one point mastery that can decide a winning or losing lane).
I pretty much abandoned the concept and went back to 21 offensive like everyone else.
maikokk1 votesvlad has more sustain with CDR quints. probably even with AP quints. his q heal scales with AP directly, and CDR lets you cast it more often.
if you combine that with the mastery vampirism... its noticable imo
Hyrum Graff1 votesSomething about the utility being less focused strictly on combat stats does make it feel as though you're leaving something on the table whenever you go deep into it as anything but a support (there are probably some other exceptions as well). For Vampirism specifically, it does feel odd that its best synergies are with high offense builds, but heavy offense masteries block you from getting the full benefit of this mastery.
It is, however, possible that 3% Lifesteal/Spellvamp would just be broken in any position that let you get it with offense masteries. I wouldn't go so far as to say we should be reworking the mastery into something else entirely, because I honestly don't know if it is regularly used to success.
How many of you guys and gals find themselves taking Vampirism and feeling good about it? On which champions? And does your final mastery split usually send you to at least 21 points in Utility? Or just far enough to get these?
Never done it myself, but I once played against a diamond jax main (over 1k jax games) who went something like 0-17-13 with vampirism (because jax's E and R on-hit are coded as single target spells). He went 22-0-4 ish and got a literal 1v5 pentakill under our inhib turret.
Other team sat out because they wanted us to kill him once. Didn't work.
Sire Hippington1 votesIf i go for Vampirism, it's usually because i opt for 9/0/21 on a mage midlane. However, i mostly do that because with cdr/lvl glyphs, cdr-boots and 10% from masteries, i'm at the 40%cdr cap, so i can go tear and pick up the insane ~160+ ap from Seraphs, while gaining enough mana-sustain to back up the pool from meditation while wandere suports my roam heavy playstyle mid. The Vampirism is like the biscuits or 40 extra gold(1 potion), it's need to have and helps in lane, but by no means the reason to go depp into the support tree. Can't say i really noticed it, besides on Ryze, cassio or Mlaz, but thats mostly because i run spellvamp runes as well on those, doubling the spellvamp i got compared to only masteries. Spellvamp overall still has the problem off beeing bad on multitarget spells unless you have you clear out waves, and a maözahar E or Cassio E which also kind clear waves while beeing singletarget give 200% more health back upon clearing...
As a random side questio relaed to utillity masteries: are the spellblade CDs from sheen and co reduced by the intelligence masterie?
Vekkna1 votesI did the math below:
On the potion/biscuit sustain versus 3% steal/vamp. Each potion returns +35hp. Most midlaners start 2 potions for a total +70 hp in lane. You would have to deal 2333 damage (after resistances) to match the sustain.
Assuming starting hp of 600, you would have to deal 1800 damage to regen the 54 max hp you can start with from the tier 2 and 3 max hp defense talents.
In other words, 3% spellvamp can be useful, but it's not useful enough relative to other accessible talents and especially not at the cost of 3% total damage and 2% flat pen (19/0/11).
dr lichdeath1 votesSomething about the utility being less focused strictly on combat stats does make it feel as though you're leaving something on the table whenever you go deep into it as anything but a support (there are probably some other exceptions as well). For Vampirism specifically, it does feel odd that its best synergies are with high offense builds, but heavy offense masteries block you from getting the full benefit of this mastery.
It is, however, possible that 3% Lifesteal/Spellvamp would just be broken in any position that let you get it with offense masteries. I wouldn't go so far as to say we should be reworking the mastery into something else entirely, because I honestly don't know if it is regularly used to success.
How many of you guys and gals find themselves taking Vampirism and feeling good about it? On which champions? And does your final mastery split usually send you to at least 21 points in Utility? Or just far enough to get these?
i use it only on ryze cant see it off use on other champs tbh
The Yetii Rider1 votesSomething about the utility being less focused strictly on combat stats does make it feel as though you're leaving something on the table whenever you go deep into it as anything but a support (there are probably some other exceptions as well). For Vampirism specifically, it does feel odd that its best synergies are with high offense builds, but heavy offense masteries block you from getting the full benefit of this mastery.
It is, however, possible that 3% Lifesteal/Spellvamp would just be broken in any position that let you get it with offense masteries. I wouldn't go so far as to say we should be reworking the mastery into something else entirely, because I honestly don't know if it is regularly used to success.
How many of you guys and gals find themselves taking Vampirism and feeling good about it? On which champions? And does your final mastery split usually send you to at least 21 points in Utility? Or just far enough to get these?
I get Vampirism on my supports with a 0/4/26 page or a 0/0/30 page. It's alright, but on supports it's rarely noticeable. I appreciate that it's helping me sustain in lane, but it's very invisible power.
kcStranger1 votesI think the main issue is just that Havoc is such a good mastery that it's silly not to go 21 into offense on anyone who's a primary damage dealer, and it's damage dealers who get the most out of lifesteal/spell vamp.
High51 votesSomething about the utility being less focused strictly on combat stats does make it feel as though you're leaving something on the table whenever you go deep into it as anything but a support (there are probably some other exceptions as well). For Vampirism specifically, it does feel odd that its best synergies are with high offense builds, but heavy offense masteries block you from getting the full benefit of this mastery.
It is, however, possible that 3% Lifesteal/Spellvamp would just be broken in any position that let you get it with offense masteries. I wouldn't go so far as to say we should be reworking the mastery into something else entirely, because I honestly don't know if it is regularly used to success.
How many of you guys and gals find themselves taking Vampirism and feeling good about it? On which champions? And does your final mastery split usually send you to at least 21 points in Utility? Or just far enough to get these?
I've found in the past when the jungle was harder, the mastery made more sense. Now, pots get you through the first clear and the jungle items beef you up after that. Personally, I kinda like where the jungle is right too, so I don't necessarily want to see the mastery buffed. Maybe it could be replaced with something else?
Meeks0111 votesI really like the Utility tree on Udyr and Evelynn. You heal about an extra 3 health per second from Vamp. Inspiration though is extremely weak and makes pretty much no difference. You're not too likely to be a lower level and if you are then it's like 1 CS worth per minute. 5% increased XP would be much better.
Rebonack19 votesIf it were a one-point wonder it would make an interesting choice for players.
Extra bulk from Defense or better sustain from Utility.
Vekkna7 votesIt really should be added to the defense tree as two separate talents in tier 2 and 3 as an alternative choice to HP and %hp. 3 points in tier 2 for 3% vamp and 1 point in tier 3 for an additional 2% vamp.
The problem is that % vamp is just not as good at sustain as the potion/biscuit utility talents in early game.
EDIT: I just did the math on the potion/biscuit sustain versus 3% steal/vamp. Each potion returns +35hp. Most midlaners start 2 potions for a total +70 hp in lane. You would have to deal 2333 damage (after resistances) to match the sustain.
However, the steal/vamp is actually more effective in short windows when you're in duels or skirmishes. You only have to do 100 dps to match the healing per second from a ticking biscuit, and a duel to the death will require far more dps than that even at early levels.
In other words, 3% is better when it counts and scales far better into mid and late game. It's more for in-fight sustain than early laning.
Mimaropa3 votesAs a support, utility should have at least some good stuff that worth putting points into. Even though I don't do huge damage as a support and spellvamp/lifesteal is not as effective.....
Sire Hippington1 votesBiscuits apply their bonus heal instant, only the normal potion goes over time. so in a fight you need to deal over ~1167 damage after mitigation to out heal the biscuite. And if you go ham on 5 bicuites, you can heal 175 hp...
DotAliscious5 votesI agree it is wonky. It's like: hey, you need sustain so pick me up! Except if you are taking damage you are better off going 9 defense. Since spell vamp is % healing based on damage dealt it's not very good on supports, either.
YumaS2Astral5 votesI would like to know why this mastery is on the Utility tree if it is so much offensively oriented? It should be moved to the Offense tree...
Voluug134 votesBecause iirc, It was too powerful at the time (we are talking of BT rush botlane meta times) for being on the already good for ADCs offensive tree. So they moved it to the utility tree.
Linna Excel2 votesI say put it in the offensive skill tree somewhere. Replace butcher and feast with it perhaps so anyone can get a few points of sustain. Or put it in the 5th tier as there's a space there for one more skill.
Option B would be somewhere in the defensive mastery tree. Tier 2 has a slot open for it.
Marthian2 votesThe problem is if it's easily accessable to ADCS (such as offense tree or tier 2 defense), there's very little reason not to take it and it'd be the same issue as previous seasons where adcs could easily sustain themselves through laning (I know it's still a thing right now, but it's not as easy as it used to be.)
Rikari1 votesnah don't rework that,mages are regenerating too much mana mid lane for assassins to deal with,focus on that first
JedenVojak6 votesI thought mana regen was nerfed this season though?
Hello I am Bird2 votesI thought this was sarcasm... Now i'm kinda afraid its not...
Carniverous1 votesI can actually say it's amazing getting spell vamp for Malzhar. His E deals single target damage, and bounces from target to target. Having enough AP to have it bounce, and a decent spellvamp amakes for lane sustain. Especially when your E gives mana per bounce.
But I play AD malz, so, I don't take it anymore.
Vekkna1 votesMalz E is coded as multi-target, so you're only getting 1% vamp from 3 points in that talent.
SpecterVonBaren1 votesThey should change it to a flat heal like you get 2 health back for every auto attack on melee, 1 health back for ranged, and 2 health back on dealing damage with a spell and 1 health for dot spells. Because having it be percentage based on your damage makes no sense when it's a utility mastery.
Inquizelus1 votesWhen you're playing utility tree 
or 
Only time I can think of it being useful.
