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@RiotRepertoir Cassiopeia Feedback + a rework idea :3

Oerba No Naja·2/9/2016, 8:03:57 PM·30 votes·7,933 views

DISCLAIMER : if you dont want to read all the bla bla just go at the bottom for my rework suggestion .

Feedback from a dedicated cassio player , i will try to make it fast and not put useless argues that everyone know

1.What aspect is most core to her identity?

  • Her twin fangs . This spell is core to her kit because its a reliant tool that can do what poison cant , it assurs all ins , kiting , proper executes and gives her sustained dmg ( even the old cassio could build spell vamp , it was not optimal but good . ) it also make Cassiopeia unique

  • Her poison ( Urgot : thanks captain obvious ) . Well it fits totaly with her theme and make her gameplay even more unique .. but what makes cassio realy exiting to play is the duo poison + twin fangs , this combo is just Cassiopeia .

  • Her spammy nature , yeah . Twin Fang spam (along with Noxious Blast spam) is iconic to Cassio when those abilities are spammed together she's one of the few mages in the game that can actually kite out and duel other champs that most mages struggle handling . Thats why cassio can be played top lane btw .

  • The ultimate is just perfect for her theme and gameplay + its by far the most charismatic spell in the game .

2.What issue bothers you the most when playing them?

  • THE PASSIVE : I hate this passive in fact it was just an argument for her murdering during patch 4.16 : this passive : is responsible for her terrible powercurve , for her unique build path , for her delayed powerspike And this passive is just a bull of stats wich i think is a bad design . I want a cass thats strong throughout the game .

  • UNIQUE BUILD PATH : you MUST max e in first place and thats the thing i dislike the most when i play cassiopeia is that i have no choice i cant max q over e against certain matchup .. Also because of her passive and super low ratios you have to build only ap to be relevant . The old cassio could build cdr item and even a item 3068 ( hard games only Gragas )

  • TOO MUCH TWIN FANGS NOT ENOUGH POISON : lel I think you saw enough threads about that with all the possible argues @RiotRepertoir Ton of reasons for saying that twin fang centric sucks , i will make it shorter and just give you the opinion we see the less .

    * because its not enough mentioned :

Her miasma is propably the worst part of her kit after her passive , its just useless. It used to be a zoning tool for sieging / and also in teamfights ( because it dealt decent dmgs ) i rly miss this aspect of cassi , people could ( currently ) stand in for the full duration without being worried . She cant control her own lane / objectives and siege , the push / depush is impossible with poison only : Win your lane or be useless sitting under tower for all the game .

  • MANA : She has mana issues. Her only form of mana sustain is killing a minion with an E. If she is not fighting near minions, and if she cannot afford to use an E to kill a minion, she is going to run out of mana ( even with a tear (wich is not full stacked ) ) . Its also the reason why cassiopeia got a restricted build , she needs a giant mana pool .

  • The ultimate : I dont have a real issue with this spell but it feels like the reward for stunning people is low . I say that because the spell has a " big " delay , a short range and the stun is rly not easy to hit against players with a brain / mobility champ. I dont want the quol to change because i dont want to cassio to become a Annie/Malphite skill cap tier , but i feel like it should be more rewarding .

***** What is expected from this rework ? *

** * A better poison with new mechanics ( miasma) ** ** * Flexible build path , Being able to max q over e or e over q ** ** * Less dependance on Twin fangs .** ** * A new passive ** ** * the ultimate should feel more cohesive to the rest of the kit and rewarding **

                                                                                REWORK :

Passive : The serpent embrace . Casting a spell causes any subsequent spellcasts within 5 seconds to cost 10% less mana and grants 2% spell vamp . stacking up to 5 times Cassiopeias poison deals more damage up to 20% to low champions healt and applies grievous wounds .

Sry but i had no idea about a passive that fits with her identity and solve her issues . Only the old one can do it ..

Q- Noxious Blast : almost unchanged Base dmg : 75 / 115 / 155 / 195 / 235
% AP ratios : 50 / 60 / 65 / 70 mouv speed boost : 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 Well i wanted to make it scale so its worth to maxe it first , and i didnt want to make her super lane bully . Mana costs may be looked at .

W- Miasma. Its 2 in 1 with an activation you will understand . Cassiopeia throws a puddle of poison at a location which expands over 7 seconds , the puddle expands faster depending on how much champs are standing in it and it applies a small poison with a special effect . (1) deals 25/35/45/55/65 + 15 % ap it also applies mental paralyze wich slow the move speed and couldowns of the enemys ( not sure about that one ) for 25/ 30/ 35/ 40/45% second activation , Poison Cloud : Cassio have to go near to the puddle then she smash the ground with her tail ( you gotta aim a location , it has a long range) making her poisson to go in the air and take the form of a cloud wich is a lot bigger than the puddle at max potential but deals less dmg . The cloud applies a poison . (2) The poison deals 10/15/25/30/35 + 10 % ap , and it applies a blind . like the blind of graves or quinn wich Reduce vision

E- Twin fangs : stays the same with less frequency but better base dmg . 50 / 85 / 120 / 155 / 190 + 55% ap ratio . Interactions with poisons : Q : poison dmg increased
W (2 ) : hiting 2 twin fangs at least will root the target for x duration , this effect has a couldown
If the enemy is poisoned by both poison , Noxious blast got the priority .

The spell goes on couldown when it hits a target . + the travel time of twin fangs is a little bit longer . This is exactly how was her old e ( wich was balanced ) , if riot is going to nerf her frequency ( wich will happen ) i wish they use this quol change instead of a direct number nerf . ****

R- Petrifying Gaze added a pasive ACTIVE: After a brief delay, Cassiopeia blasts enemies in a cone , dealing magic damage and Slow them by 60% for 2 seconds. Enemies facing her directly are instead for the same duration. deals 150 / 250 / 350 + 60 % ap Passive: Cassiopeia's curse : applies a litlle poison to stunned targets , the poison shreds 10 / 20 / 40 % Armor and Magic resist for the duration of the poison ( 2 sec , same as the stun ) . If the target dies during the poison duration , it will leave a litlle cloud of cassiopeia's curse at this location .

Thanks for reading and please give me your feedback :D

:* http://imgur.com/ohTjyYZ

57 Comments

RiotRiotRepertoir2/10/2016, 5:33:30 AM14 votes
  • What is expected from this rework ? *
  • A better poison with new mechanics ( miasma)
  • Flexible build path , Being able to max q over e or e over q
  • Less dependance on Twin fangs .
  • A new passive
  • the ultimate should feel more cohesive to the rest of the kit and rewarding

This is pretty in line with what I understand to be a viable direction for Cass.

As far as a better poison goes, this is something I'm pretty interested in exploring, and I agree that Miasma seems like a good place to start with that, though it's possible the passive could be a viable path here as well.

The notes about being able to max Q or E seems like it goes pretty hand-in-hand with less dependence on Twin Fang. I do feel like it's worth mentioning here that my understanding of Twin Fang is that it should remain a spammy ability, but that it shouldn't be so dominant as to make Cass feel one-dimensional, which I do believe most players think she is.

Either a new passive or a modified one is definitely a possibility, though I think there are some positive effects of the current passive that would be nice to retain (not needing to build a ton of CDR, some sort of sustain for a shorter-range mage).

As to the ultimate feeling more cohesive and rewarding, I agree it would be nice to blend some of the poison/petrify identities going on in her kit, but I do currently see this as a lower priority than some of the other stuff mentioned here. As to the reward of Petrifying Gaze specifically, I know players have issues with how easy it can feel to outplay the skill as an opponent in some scenarios, but I do feel like the spell is actually really rewarding when I get opportunities to use it cleverly by ducking into brush or behind terrain.

Thanks for the thoughtful write-up!

Nagma is back2/9/2016, 8:07:45 PM7 votes

You got my upvote for the : she smashs the ground with her tail and land poison in the air . thats looks bad ass

Valhala Warior312/9/2016, 8:09:28 PM6 votes

I think i would play cassiopeia again with this rework . [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

TallyZrg2/9/2016, 10:27:15 PM5 votes

Really well thought out. You made excellent points and hit on all of Cass's strengths and growth areas.

I like the ideas you proposed as well to how Cass could be improved so that she is a poison utility mage instead of a becoming a poison machine gun from Borderlands.

Eagleheart2/10/2016, 12:36:16 AM4 votes

Okay, I'm gonna stop you for just a second. I'll give it to you that I didn't read everything, but this came off as an immediate problem:

Passive : The serpent embrace . Casting a spell causes any subsequent spellcasts within 5 seconds to cost 10% less mana and grants 2% spell vamp . stacking up to 5 times Cassiopeias poison deals more damage up to 20% to low champions healt and applies grievous wounds .

This passive would be either completely useless or require the rest of her kit to be completely useless. Allow me to explain.

Issue 1: The Mana reduction.

Mana reduction was a feature of Cassiopeia's old passive, and it completely screwed people over when they tried to make use of it. It sounds good on paper for early game harass (If you harass them alot, then you will save mana.)

However, the downside to this is that in order for this passive to be balanced, the mana reduction stacks cant be up for very long, or else it will seem like Cassiopeia has free infinite mana. This gets her kit or passive gutted right off the bat.

On top of that, if the passive stacks aren't up for very long, then you have to constantly burn mana in order to keep them up and ticking, this means that in the early game you won't have much use out of your passive since you don't have a buttload of mana and mana regen to cover your problems and allow for sustainable stacking.

This would effectively make Cassiopeia exactly the same as her current passive: A useless DOT mage early and an unstoppable death machine late. (If fed.)

So, in the end, it's better to skip mana reduction passives. They either screw the kit over in terms of mana costs, or they screw the passive over by forcing it to be useless.

Issue 2: The free items baked in.

10% spell vamp, grievous wounds, and 20% damage to low health champions? That's item 3145, item 3165 and a situational DFG rolled into one! You've gotta realize how crazy that sounds, right? Handing out free items in passives is a major problem, and we shouldn't look to increase it.

AquariusGine2/9/2016, 9:36:27 PM4 votes

OMG [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

tHANK YOU ! !

We want more poison and less twin fangs, but the twin fangs spam IS an iconic part of her kit. So please don't just 'delete' it

freeformline2/9/2016, 10:29:37 PM3 votes

I like it! I think the tail-slapping Miasma sounds a little corny, but overall I'm a fan of this rework, if only because it fits my dream of a debuff Cassiopeia far better than her current incarnation.

Nagma2/9/2016, 8:11:48 PM3 votes

I just agree , not much to say i wish this skin becomes the new ultimate skin of 2016 [zombie-nunu-hearts]

Cosmic Warper2/9/2016, 10:46:50 PM2 votes

I like it a lot. You could clean up some of the wording here and there, but the ideas are all really great. The only change i would make would be to maybe remove the cd debuff that her W gives. Her W already looks super loaded with the potential blind and root from E. A cooldown debuff doesn't seem impactful for both cassio and the enemy. You're debilitating the enemy enough with the slow, blind, and potential root. I would also remove the part on twin fangs dmg being increased by her ult because her ultimate "posion" already inherently increases the dmg by shredding the enemy's resists so it seems a bit too much. Otherwise the theme looks cohesive and fun to play.

I also think the whole "leaving a zone of debuff poison on enemy death" from her ult is excessive. Trim down some of the parts that seem unnecessary and/or overloaded and you have a solid and cohesive kit.

TheUltimateSpear2/9/2016, 11:06:44 PM2 votes

I like all of these ideas, but maybe take away some of the loadedness in her W and/or R.

other than that, looks solid. Good job!

Cassiopeia

EfficientDynamo2/10/2016, 6:46:46 AM2 votes

This kit would certainly be a stepforward from Cass in her current state, but it feels way too complex (like Jhin's passive). Not everything needs a double passive/action.

Also, I wouldn't say that her E is core to her kit or her fantasy. It's always been there, but it doesn't need to be there if something else that was poison-themed replaced it.

HandheldBrandon2/10/2016, 9:31:41 AM1 votes

That passive is pretty much what her passive used to be before the rework except far far stronger.