Blind CC "buff"

Impish Yordle··33 votes·2,849 views

For such a niche CC I think you can add a bit more to it than there is right now, Riot. Especially considering how rare it is.

The thing that bothers me is: Why are auto attack modifiers allowed to go through?

It seems preposterous that auto attacks modifiers like Riven’s passive can go through and Vayne (who has very vague and questionable counterplay options) can still proc W-stacks through tumble’s augmented aa. The purpose of that particular kind of CC is to counter auto attacks. I don’t think it’s ok that such a niche CC can be circumvented inherently by some abilities to become less consistent and ultimately less impactful for what it was designed for. Not to mention Cleanse, QSS and Tenacity are a thing. Compared to other forms of CC Blind is very specific and also rare so why give what little it gives exception cases where it can't even work 100% effectively? Against mages and casters it's pretty much useless anyway. It can only do 1 thing so it might as well be good at that one thing.

And I think as of now Quinn and Teemo could really use some help anyway. I wouldn't call it as much a buff than fixing it so it actually does what it says on the tin.

Edit: You might as well fix Jax' counter strike while you're at it because it seems to suffer from a similar issue.

27 Comments

CreationFlaw15 votes

Actually, the thing that pisses me off the most about blind is that Xin Zhao can still knock up up without hitting any of his three autos, can heal, etc. Udyr can still stun, blahblah. It's frustrating x)

Impish Yordle6 votes

{quoted}

Actually, the thing that pisses me off the most about blind is that Xin Zhao can still knock up up without hitting any of his three autos, can heal, etc. Udyr can still stun, blahblah. It's frustrating x)

Xin is a very weird case. It blocks the damage but not its effects. That's another thing I don't like about the current state of blind: What it can do to some champions it cannot do against another for some reason. It's really an inconsistent mess.

thenotoriousman8 votes

The fact that blind in general is worthless against so many on-hit damage dealing/crowd control effects combined with how Quinn's Blinding Assault is locked to a 1.5s duration always stuck in my craw. Add in the fact that Unbreakable and Wind Wall completely neuter any projectile-based forms of delivering on-hit effects and the 2 blinds left in the game feel anemic.

Also, in the interest of fairness, Jax's Counter Strike is basically in the same place.

Impish Yordle1 votes

{quoted}

The fact that blind in general is worthless against so many on-hit damage dealing/crowd control effects combined with how Quinn's Blinding Assault is locked to a 1.5s duration always stuck in my craw. Add in the fact that Unbreakable and Wind Wall completely neuter any projectile-based forms of delivering on-hit effects and the 2 blinds left in the game feel anemic.

Also, in the interest of fairness, Jax's Counter Strike is basically in the same place.

Yeah I added Jax as well

500 Minions1 votes

only Quinn and Teemo have blind right? does garen Q goes through blind? i thought people saying teemo is counter to garen...

thenotoriousman1 votes

[{quoted}](name=500 Minions,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QhGr5m9z,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2015-09-03T03:58:33.255+0000)

only Quinn and Teemo have blind right? does garen Q goes through blind? i thought people saying teemo is counter to garen...

Silence goes through Blind, but keep in mind that A) Teemo does attrition damage through poison which completely shuts down Garen's passive (for 13 whole seconds before level 11, all from one auto), B) his auto range is 500 and Blinding Dart is 580 (not to mention targeted), so Teemo has the luxury of applying it whenever he chooses, and C) Teemo's Q is an AA reset, so have fun eating a AA>Q>AA anytime you try to approach the minion wave.

ChaosThief3 votes

Honestly blind should be replaced by graves' W sort of effect (reduced vision range), maybe even stronger (you have no vision outside your champion's hitbox).

It makes more sense, to be honest.

Prospector Pete2 votes

I agree, it's very random. Some things are blocked by blinds, other things aren't.

ARequestOfDeath2 votes

honestly blind is the cc that rustles my jimmies the most. it ruins almost all of the actually fun champions like MasterYi and Tryndamere or Garen. it really ticks me off how this cc is actually is allowed in the game along with silences (which i don't mind at all)

Impish Yordle4 votes

{quoted}

honestly blind is the cc that rustles my jimmies the most. it ruins almost all of the actually fun champions like MasterYi and Tryndamere or Garen. it really ticks me off how this cc is actually is allowed in the game along with silences (which i don't mind at all)

It seems a bit trollish against certain champions but it is very situational and picky. Slows, stuns, knock-ups, roots and silences are viable in about almost every single situation and match-up. Even if you were to get countered by blind you could always lane swap with a caster and blind would become useless.

The Sword Saint3 votes

No melee auto attack champion want's to deal with teemo or quin getting a buff to blind of all things and showing up top more often. As it is, those champions afk win lanes against melees who don't severely outplay them.

It's not so much that blind is as powerful as silence or stun inherently (its not), it's that it only exists on champion who are also ranged and it lasts much longer then 'harder' cc is generally allowed to last, while being just as bad as a polymorph against champions who rely on auto attacks in any way.

A melee champion takes several free ranged auto hits just to get a single cs from a teemo or quin, simply because they know that they don't have the option of gapclosing and trading back since they will just eat a blind and have to take even more free autos and minion damage while trying to walk back afterwords without even accomplishing any damage. So teemo or quin never have to actually use their blind in lane against a melee who knows the matchup, just the fact that the blind exists is enough for the melee champion to be forced into playing super passive and trying to farm under turret - again taking free harass because lolrangedautos.

This lasts until the melee champion has the levels and items to come back from base and try to 100-0 all in the teemo or quin, and if this fails for whatever reason (the gold/xp difference, jungler interference, teemo/quin running like a bitch and using everything to escape including flash and ultimate without even trying to fight back) then it's back to the melee champion getting harassed under tower again until they buy enough tank items and sustain to be able to survive.

All in all, when you pick teemo/quin/any future ranged champion with a blind/heimerdinger against an auto attack based melee champion, you're basically deciding that the other person isn't going to be able to enjoy the match at all for as much as maybe 20 minutes. The only saving grace is that on hit effects go through blind. That's not cool. I'd rather they replaced teemo's blind with a stun or something else because at least that would by necessity be shorter duration and wouldn't feel like you were saying 'fuck you in particular' to melee auto attack champions.

Mathbalnase3 votes

Teemo does not 'afk win lanes against melees who don't severely outplay them'. Even those who are worst off against him in the laning phase can put enough pressure on him that he can't just 'afk win lane'.

As for Blind being 'as bad as Polymorph against champions who rely [sic] on auto attacks in any way', that's just bullshit. Polymorph disables all abilities - all champions so far as I'm aware have at least one ability that deals damage, applies CC, or facilitates escape, without any need for an AA - and applies a slow - something blind sure as hell doesn't. There is only ONE manner in which a blind could be considered more potent than an equal-duration polymorph, and that is that it is not removable by Mikael's. In EVERY other manner, a polymorph is more potent than an equal-duration blind. (and don't get started on 'but blinds typically last longer' - so do slows, but roots are still stronger)

(edit: personally, I'm of the opinion that Teemo needs a full rework to fix his toxic kit, and that a graves smoke / noc ult style effect would fit his theme well in such a rework, but at least a bit of the blatant disinformation - and there is plenty - in the above post needed to be corrected regardless.)

ARequestOfDeath1 votes

what he means is sort of he is just anti-fun if your a auto based champion

Impish Yordle1 votes

{quoted}

what he means is sort of he is just anti-fun if your a auto based champion

Getting countered is never fun :P

Mathbalnase1 votes

Interpreting what was actually said to go no further than that requires an absurd distortion of understanding.

ChloeBot2 votes

I agree, when I play Quinn against Kalista, why is she still able to stack spears inside my heart despite her "missing" How in any way does this make sense, it gives me a heart attack. I just want on-hit effects to not work despite your aa's "Missing"

Ignis02 votes

On hit effects should not work when blinds on applied. I agree completely and the fact they haven't implemented this yet pisses me off too much.

Teridax681 votes

I think it might be better to turn Blind into a disarm effect, and prevent its victims from autoattacking entirely, just as silence prevents spellcasts. Not only is there the whole issue of on-hit effects and other modifiers passing through when they shouldn't, but the visual effect of attacking someone and getting zero feedback is itself pretty confusing, imo. The only champion on whom this might not mesh well is Shaco, whose basic attacks have a chance of causing monsters to miss, but that's such an antiquated passive that it would be worth replacing it with something else entirely (perhaps change that effect into a chance to fear monsters, which would work with his passive).

Impish Yordle1 votes

{quoted}

I think it might be better to turn Blind into a disarm effect, and prevent its victims from autoattacking entirely, just as silence prevents spellcasts. Not only is there the whole issue of on-hit effects and other modifiers passing through when they shouldn't, but the visual effect of attacking someone and getting zero feedback is itself pretty confusing, imo. The only champion on whom this might not mesh well is Shaco, whose basic attacks have a chance of causing monsters to miss, but that's such an antiquated passive that it would be worth replacing it with something else entirely (perhaps change that effect into a chance to fear monsters, which would work with his passive).

However it might feel a bit weird to implement that into pseudo-abilities that somehow count as "auto attacks" or apply on-hit effects like Ezreal Q.

Mathbalnase1 votes

Root not only disables normal movement, but also (the vast majority of) movement abilities (meaning jumps, dashes, blinks, teleports, etc).

Kouga1 votes

Blind is to AA-relient Champions what Silence is to mages. A blinded Tryn is about as effective as a Silenced LeBlanc. Note that both of those CCs are either rare or becoming removed from more and more kits over time.

Impish Yordle3 votes

{quoted}

Blind is to AA-relient Champions what Silence is to mages. A blinded Tryn is about as effective as a Silenced LeBlanc. Note that both of those CCs are either rare or becoming removed from more and more kits over time.

Blind and Silence aren't quite on equal footing. Every champion is defined by abilities, regardless whether they're a dedicated caster or not. Auto attacks are simply more expendable than abilities for some champions only use them for last-hitting. There are champions that can completely neglect aa but there are none that can completely neglect their abilities. The abilities on Trynd are still more worth and impactful than the auto attacks of the likes of LeBlanc. Also Silence prevents you from using summoner spells and item actives so you can't use those regardless of your role. In addition to that Silence can interrupt channeled abilities.

PastaMario1 votes

Fix the spaghetti code! :o

ShinTwist1 votes

Riven's passive doesn't go through blind.

FakeGravity1 votes

nothing like placing equinox of soraka under zed target same as blinding yi and trynda

Impish Yordle1 votes

{quoted}

nothing like placing equinox of soraka under zed target same as blinding yi and trynda

Silence at least does its job and is overall way more impactful. Blind doesn't even follow its premise by allowing things to go through.

Rand0mH3r0X1 votes

I've had this problem with Teemo forever. The first two hits of an ADC always come through before the missile lands and applies. Sometimes that's enough, and then the Ashe Arrow comes, my blind is wasted, and I'm just decimated.

Fix blind issue, so that Teemo can be realized in his true form. https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--h5AAFkBm--/c_fill,fl_progressive,g_north,h_358,q_80,w_636/1355042194039678636.jpg

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