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Fiddlesticks Ult and Q damage and heal broken?

Nikushimi Zero··2 votes·3,389 views

Hey there. Playing with and against Fiddlesticks users recently, and by recently I mean a LOT. I noticed one thing. His damage is INSANE!

People always say that the damage in concepts over on the champion concepts are broken while being half the damage of actual champions. I disagree XD But, that's besides the point.

Fiddlesticks, with a build that I used via calculator has 611 AP. His "Drain" ability over 5 seconds heals him, at max, for 1819.8. That is 363.96 per level. That is pretty much FULL HEALTH! Which is easily maxed early to mid game. That's insane. That can OHKO most champions while fully healing him. Yes, the chain can be broke, but 363.96 damage even for like 2-3 seconds is INSANE! Not to mention how it heals him :| So even if you wanted to DPS him you'd have to be INSANE Dps to counter his heals WHILE having INSANE lifesteal or heal on you. 575 range means that he is also has movement speed of all champions covered so he can easily MOVE WITH them, and they would effectively need over 575 movement speed to get out of his range to be able to break it since he can move with them and if you throw on boots he is able to easily do this.

Tell me that isn't broken. I will disagree, but please. Explain that to me.

His ult. Riot, please fix this. It's not even the ult itself. It's a mechanic people use. The damage is already insane. With the same build he does 2999.75 damage. 3k health. That OHKO's ANY champion without health items. It's pretty much Nunu's ult but over time. Insane.

The problem though I find is this. You go to target him and...He uses stasis. This of course makes him invulnerable while his ult....IS STILL GOING! So, even if you COULD out DPS him and kill him before he can even hurt you, this guarantees his safety while he does insane damage.

Now, you say "Well dodge." in the middle of a team fight it is quite difficult to see him coming not to mention escape with all the other champions. Especially because of him teleporting in.

Let me know what you think? Should stasis and other items be unusable during his ult? It would be like Nunu's ult being able to go off with stasis, or anyone ult while being invulnerable.

Let me know what you think, and Riot, if you read this let me know what's up with that? Thanks. ^_^

26 Comments

Sincarnation3 votes

I can't tell if you are trolling or serious.

Theory doesnt translate super well to actuality

Fiddle does amazing damage and is really hard to 1 v 1, but he is very immobile and naturally squishy. His damage is short ranged, and he is very reliant on vision denial due his channels. Not to mention just like kennen or any other dive hourglass champ he get absolutely fucked by a fast person with displacement sooo Janna, Lee, Gragas, Ali etc can all punt him away and laugh

Nikushimi Zero1 votes

Not with Stasis. That's what I mean. The majority of people counter all counters with stasis.

Also, the fiddles I've played have easily been able to move and keep the drain you someone or the ult. Meaning ALL that damage is dealt. Nothing is broken when people move around with him to keep people in range.

I mean, with all of this that means all the "OP" stuff can be countered. Idk, but all the fiddles I've played with and against are just insane with the damage and keeping the damage on champions.

Moussetracks1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nikushimi Zero,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qdztt4mE,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-03-06T01:37:20.941+0000)

Not with Stasis. That's what I mean. The majority of people counter all counters with stasis.

Also, the fiddles I've played have easily been able to move and keep the drain you someone or the ult. Meaning ALL that damage is dealt. Nothing is broken when people move around with him to keep people in range.

I mean, with all of this that means all the "OP" stuff can be countered. Idk, but all the fiddles I've played with and against are just insane with the damage and keeping the damage on champions.

You are seeing things wrong.

He plain CANNOT MOVE during his Drain channel. Period. If he does, no damage. If he is interrupted by that channel the channel STOPS. Period. In order for him to get a stasis, he has to buy a 3000+ gold item. RARELY will Fiddlesticks simply ult in and immediately hourglass. This is a suboptimal situation as it doesn't allow the use for your other skills. No mass team silence, no single person feared, no drain damage. Yes, the damage of his ult is high, but it individually scales poorly, which means even a high AP fid will do sup par damage if you get out of the ult within a few seconds.

Keep vision of Fiddlesticks, and you're fine. Period. That's all it takes.

Nikushimi Zero1 votes

I wouldn't say his scaling is low at all.

Was hoping this would be an actual discussion instead of "LOL! You can't play. get gud." sort of vibe that I'm getting. shrugs

Idk, I must've cause I did see several fiddles move and keep that drain. Unless the cooldown time was fast and they moved then cast it again. Idk.

Moussetracks1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nikushimi Zero,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qdztt4mE,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-06T04:37:05.480+0000)

I wouldn't say his scaling is low at all.

Was hoping this would be an actual discussion instead of "LOL! You can't play. get gud." sort of vibe that I'm getting. shrugs

Idk, I must've cause I did see several fiddles move and keep that drain. Unless the cooldown time was fast and they moved then cast it again. Idk.

The cooldown is low at higher ranks, enough so that he can constantly keep it up, but he cannot do it while casting. I'm sorry to say but if you saw him doing it while moving, you saw wrong.

And he scales poorly if he can only get a few seconds in. Its why his Q exists, so he can keep people in his damage. Fiddlesticks is a pub stomper. His weakness is coordination and anyone that can interrupt his drain.

EvilMerodach3 votes

Yeh, drain is hard channeled, meaning if Fiddlesticks takes any action other than summoner spells (and no flash/teleport) it will end the drain early. Also any stun/silence/knock up/back/pull will cancel it too. And MR doubly hurts his drain, as it will lower the damage you take, and lower the amount the drain will heal him.

But yeh, the dps and the heal on his drain is the highest dps magic damage in the game. So either cc him or GET OUT of the leash, unless you have some insane burst to just kill him before he heals enough. 90% of the time, you can just walk out of leash range and then back in and kill him.

As far as dealing damage while in ulti while hourglassed, there's a lot of champs that can do that (Morgana probably being the strongest..she can stun your whole team while hourglassed..)

If fid needs nerfed cause of it, about 60% of mages in LoL do too..and I don't think they do (at least not all of them...)

Edit: also, his Q his is fear, which does 0 damage, just point and click 'make this guy run away from me' button. W is his drain.

2000boxes2 votes

if you have good vision fiddle should never get a game changing ult off if you have vison

Nikushimi Zero1 votes

Except vision isn't always there, and even with vision the damage is still quite high especially for his health drain.

Ratbert2 votes

Walking is literally the most difficult thing in this game. So is warding, burst damage, and not 1v1ing.

Just so we're clear, fidds excels in 1v1's and against teams with poor vision. He loses about all of his damage if you walk out of like a 750 range. More weaknesses include a 5 second channel, a 1.5 second channel, losing a quarter of his damage to mr (usually) and dealing only magical damage. Fidds also cannot keep up with you because he'll have no damage whilst moving.

His damage is not "insane" because it takes 5 seconds to deal. If you can't kill him in 2.5 seconds (assuming you stand still while he zhonyas) you would have lost regardless.

Nikushimi Zero1 votes

His drain is not broken if he moves around. Therefore keeping contact. You'd have to flash or get him away somehow.

Yes, he can't do anything for 5s if he wants full damage, and the 1.5s startup isn't that long and he teleports in.

Idk, maybe people are playing him differently, but the fact Stasis is usable during his alt makes his "Squishiness" non existent for the duration of his ult. As I was saying above.

I believe that the damage is insane. Yes, if it hits all of them.

I had a champion concept that had a damage over time effect that at max did 1500 over 5 hits. That's not including armor and EVERYONE said "That's OP".

I wish there were more people like you in those forums because everyone says that things are OP when they aren't, but after playing with and against him seeing his health skyrocket and OHKO an opponent. That's insane. he doesn't even need the full 5s to OHKO someone with the right ability power.

CKirk3 votes

"His drain is not broken if he moves around"? It's a channel. He can't move while using it. I'm not quite sure what you mean.

Nikushimi Zero1 votes

Well, then I must have been seeing things when fiddle was chasing me with Drain.

Ratbert3 votes

I think that you think that fidds can move during drain. That would make him op, but it's also not the case.

Nikushimi Zero1 votes

I've seen him move. If he truly can't then they must've done something with fiddle.

IcyPepper1 votes

I played him before, and didn't do anything amazing with it.

Most junglers seem broken on paper, as you explained, but there is counterplay available. Most team comps have some form of hard cc (knockups to stuns) that can interrupt Fiddlestick's channel. In a teamfight, this person should target fiddlesticks if he's in range of the squishy carries (most top laners have this kind of cc, especially bruisers). Otherwise, Fiddlesticks can only drain the frontline (who should have magic resist and health by the teamfight phase).

For the laning phase, ward ward ward! I don't care if you're mid, top, adc, or jungler, you should have wards so you never get surprised! His ult is like a short flash, so it's quite the nasty surprise if you aren't sure to stay out of range. If laners can't do that, it doesn't matter what jungler is against them, they should and will be punished for not controlling the map with vision.

Nikushimi Zero1 votes

This is true. However, when playing him in ARAM that is quick hard to do XD

Most team members don't really know much about fiddle and just let him attack.

Imo, his damage over time is high. At least that health drain is. At max level with 700 + AP that is literally like 500-600 HP per second. Even for 2s that's half his health.

Mathbalnase1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nikushimi Zero,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qdztt4mE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-03-06T02:18:57.402+0000) At least that health drain is. At max level with 700 + AP that is literally like 500-600 HP per second. Even for 2s that's half his health.

Build some magic resist. Hit the immobile channelling fid with some CC. Really almost any form of CC will do. Alternatively, just walk away. If he's fearing you first, consider some Tenacity (Conveniently, it often comes packaged with MR). You'll be walking away from him for the duration of the fear, anyway, but you'll be slowed, so get that duration down.

Moussetracks1 votes
  1. Pick Alistar/Singed/Volibear/Lee Sin/Displacement Champion
  2. Wait for Fiddle ult in a team fight
  3. Kick him away.
  4. Spam laugh.

Seriously, I was a Middlesticks main during season 4, I don't think any of the changes that have gone through since then were needed. He has his strengths, oh yes there is this, but he has very clear, defined points of weakness as well.

Nikushimi Zero1 votes

Except, as I said....Stasis. Fiddlestick users during a teamfight have ult then stasis right away. Untargetable. Undamageable. Knocking away doesn't work. Dps doesn't work.

El Condor Pasa2 votes

So then just do a 360 and walk away. You won't take damage from him if you walk out of the AOE.

Nikushimi Zero1 votes

Unless you can't move or the damage out dps's your movement which it usually does since I see chunks of even tanks disappear.

El Condor Pasa3 votes

Are those tanks walking around with no MR and no points in the defense mastery tree or something?

Nikushimi Zero1 votes

Idk, but his ult can move with him (Iirc) and the dps on it is high as hell.

I've played tanks with over 200 MR and it still wrecked me. :| Maybe I just suck at tanks or my tanks weren't good.

Mathbalnase1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nikushimi Zero,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qdztt4mE,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-06T04:39:36.722+0000) Maybe I just suck at tanks or my tanks weren't good.

Seems like.

Sincarnation1 votes

Fiddle can't move during drain thats what balances it. If he could, it would be stupid and horrendously OP. Fiddle doing tons of damage really isnt all that special, he is a mage. Mages do shit tons of damage once they get full build, he is still squishy as fuck, cooldown reliant and in fids case VERY immobile.

If a fiddle ults you and immediately uses hourglass so he cant move or be focused, you fucked up. You got too close to a wall or bush without vision, but since he immediately hourglassed you can just walk out of his ult. If he had time to fear you, you or a teammate had time to knock him away.

Nikushimi Zero1 votes

I saw things wrong then. Still, that hourglass for his ult makes these DPS counters null and void.

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