True damage on everyone.

Off Meta Evan··1 votes·986 views

I feel that there are a lot of champions in the game right now that just... don't need it.. like at all. I feel that with all these champs with true damage it makes the game less rewarding as a whole. like lets take Fiora and Darius for instance. darius has built in pen, a passive that procs black clever almost immediately and really high base damages. his kit is REALLY good at making armor useless on its own, for what purpose does he need a true damage execute? as for fiora, i cannot TELL you how many times i've seen a fiora come back from a shitty laning phase just due to some lucky team fight. the fact that she can get reasonably tanky while dealing true damage makes it feel like there really isn't anyway to shut her down. like her dueling potential in lane isn't bad enough to justify being able to just come back swinging with such a strong late game. It makes it feel like if you get behind fighting fiora, then you're just fucked. but if you're ahead of fiora its only a matter of time before she two shots your adc. the same can be said for Irelia Olaf and even a champ i legit like Garen i've lost plenty of lanes as garen but then just come back cause of that dumb passive. it makes my victory feel extremely hollow because i know that mechanically i failed but the game is just randomly giving me a cushion. I also feel like Olaf laning phase and bully potential was waayyyy too good to warrant him having true damage, max hp damage as magic or ad? sure fine, at least you can build against that. irelia has the same problem as fiora, i feel her laning phase isn't bad enough to justify her having the ability to just spring back in the mid game.

TDLR

i feel that all the true damage that certain champions have makes it feel like pissing in the wind if you get ahead or makes it so the champ has a laning phase so oppressive you can't really do anything about it.

52 Comments

Ralanr5 votes

Wow. Beyond Vayne, who are you missing that has true damage?

Off Meta Evan1 votes

Velkoz Ahri Yasuo <-- only when he procs his ult tho MasterYi

Kaioko4 votes

{quoted}

Velkoz Ahri Yasuo <-- only when he procs his ult tho MasterYi

Yasuo doesn't deal true damage after his ultimate he just gets additional penetration only on crits now though.

Off Meta Evan1 votes

his pen is like at 100% right now in patch 6.17 if you land the ult with just one pen item. which you should probably get considering its 100% pen

Ralanr4 votes

No it's not.

51653971DEL11 votes

Yasuo doesn't have true damage you dope, he gains 50% armor ignore.

Off Meta Evan1 votes

jk you right, idk why i thought it got higher as the game went on. still 50% thats pretty spoopy.

Marshbouy4 votes

ive heard that Trundle Anivia Bard all deal true damage (only like 1) because of their ults/walls.

Ralanr2 votes

So OP. Rito plz.

Off Meta Evan1 votes

so they actually? terrain mechanics are super goofy dude XD

Akenero1 votes

Yes, they do, it's why those abilities draw tower aggro

TequilaZombie1 votes

Look for Trundle's Pillar Pentakill, it is a thing.

OneMustFall2 votes

Personally the only one that bothers me is Chogath's 1000 true damage ult. On a relatively low CD. Sitting under tower as ADC at full HP and suddenly...NOM NOM NOM NOM. 1 shot and gray screen.

Off Meta Evan1 votes

i feel that if he had lower ap ratios and base damage it'd be more balanced. like that true damage was his only HOPE to win duels at times but.... its really not...

GULAG 4 U1 votes

So you let chogath go melee on you....

OneMustFall1 votes

{quoted}

So you let chogath go melee on you....

lol

GULAG 4 U1 votes

Lol? You're an adc, you let a melee tank get to your face when he has no mobility?

Maybe you should git fucking gud?

Off Meta Evan1 votes

if he has item 3116 his autos slow, with a simple summoner 4 W auto combo you're now slowed and silenced so landing Q will be a breeze, and because his ap ratios are crazy high as well as base damages he's probably gonna kill you.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

And you thought it was a good idea to stay undertower when you have a tank that can tank the tower for 10 years? Ayyy lmao. Cho Op?

OneMustFall1 votes

{quoted}

Lol? You're an adc, you let a melee tank get to your face when he has no mobility?

Maybe you should git fucking gud?

ROFL

You're a joke, junior.

Astôlfo2 votes

pffffft

people these days

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

Olaf and Irelia have had true damage ever since they were champions...and they both started a long-ass time ago. Garen, Darius and Fiora are more recent in the true damage dealing, and that's still pretty old news.

And sure, True Damage can make for a huge pain late-game, but that's kind of the purpose. These champions are supposed to still be a threat late-game, which is why they have it.

Off Meta Evan1 votes

and i feel that for the most part its unwarrented that they have super strong late games. Darius has one of the strongest if not THE strongest level 1s in the game, why does he need a super strong late game on top of that? i'm very aware that this is old news but it doesn't make it any less annoying to play against.

Akenero1 votes

Irelia is okay since it doesn't scale with anything besides attack speed. Her e makes her bullshit.

Off Meta Evan1 votes

i feel that her ability to spring back is the most annoying thing about her, tho i agree her E has problems of its own i could accept that fact if her mid game wasn't so damn good.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

Darius doesn't have a super-strong late-game. He has one ability that he can guarantee is effective late-game, and his physical damage isn't entirely muted by the existence of Armor.

Off Meta Evan1 votes

but that ability is good enough to earn him a penta dunk and make him a monster in team fight. I don't see why such an oppressive laner should be given the chance to do something like that. and his core item is item 3071 which is fully proced almost immediately from his passive plus built in 25% pen, thats half of your armor just down the drain.

JustMyBassCannon2 votes

There's no reason that a champion should actually be literally worthless late-game. Having an early-game advantage is not worth turning it into a 4v5 late-game. This is why Darius is "given the chance to do something" late-game.

It's about 48% of your armor once it reaches full stacks, yes, but what does Darius have besides damage output? He's a bruiser, and one of the ones that has no built-in defense in the first place.

Off Meta Evan1 votes

you're right they shouldn't be completely useless, however i feel that giving him built in pen and true damage allows him to be relatively unpunished for not snowballing. while other heavily snowball based fighters Renekton Pantheon only have AD damage for the most part with not built in pen. because of that it creates a sort of ticking clock kinda deal where if you want to be half as useful as the opposing top laner you HAVE to do well early because your opponent can rush armor and heavily reduce your snowball chances where as darius has built in pen and true damage so its not as much of a factor. i don't think he should be completely useless but a reset true damage ult that allows him to get an ez triple is a lot more than he needs.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

You say that like it's impossible to shut down a Darius.

While a couple champions definitely have difficulty laning against him, it's pretty funny to think that Darius could have any late-game presence if he gets shut down early-game.

Off Meta Evan1 votes

shutting down darius is possible but its usually from a very niche pick. like Teemo Kennen or Gnar are all viable ranged champions that SHOULD do well against him. however the simple fact that he has his passive and his ult means that even if bully him through out laning phase one good team fight is all he needs to be useful. for a champion with such simple mechanics and strong laning i feel that its far too rewarding. if you're gonna play a champion thats as simple as Darius and has such a strong laning phase as he does and you fuck up i feel that you should be punished EXTREMELY hard for it.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

Again, while that is your personal experience, it differs vastly from mine. Anecdotes can only get you so far in making a claim about a champion.

Darius is a threat early-game, one that requires you to outsmart him and watch for his jungler. If you just break even with him in the laning phase, you can pull ahead later because most bruisers don't fall off quite as harshly as he does. Despite his %Pen and True damage, he has this tiny problem I've dubbed the "Mordekaiser Problem."

Namely, he can't get himself into fights. Yes, Flash exists, and he can get some movement speed, but he is a heavy melee bruiser with very short, effective combat range. This is a disadvantage that most bruisers don't have, and thus can remain a greater threat late-game because of it.

"He--" Yes, Darius has a pull. No, it doesn't cover his lack of mobility, because you can walk out of his pull, especially since they changed cone spells.

Off Meta Evan1 votes

while he can be kited this is a disadvantage that really only affects him if his opponent is melee. thats why i dislike darius as a champion as a whole really, his gameplay is very unintuitive and inorganic. He basically amounts to if he counters you, he wins, if you counter him, you win. its not very engaging. the fact that i have to outsmart him but because his kit is extremely simple and requires very little in the way of mechanical skill he doesn't have to outsmart me. i also don't think his inability to get into fights is nearly as bad with recent changes, such as buffs to summoner 6 or with the keystone storm raiders surge, his ability to get into fights is way better. not to mention while not being able to get at the back line easily darius is extremely good at destroying the frontline with his passive. so all it takes is one Maokai tanking one too many hits and darius now has his passive up. the only reason i've ever cared about that pull is because it makes him nearly impossible to deal with if you're not particularly mobile. even if you do have an escape that grab can negate it if he times it right. and its not like hitting a point blank cone move is particularly hard.

TequilaZombie2 votes

Storm Raiders Surge requires you to already be in a fight to be of any effect, as well as requiring some heavy damage oriented build, as you need to deal 1/3 of someone's health in 2 seconds for it to proc.

Yes, Darius can easily do it to a squishy even when building tank, but if he's already in range of the squishies he doesn't need the mobility anymore.

summoner 6 is useful, but it's subpar to summoner 4, as well as being VERY telegraphed.

As a personal opinion, In find his kit to be really organic and well put together. You look at him and you know exactly what he should be doing and how he should play out. Swing the axe around, pull people and do the dunk, all while being a hard hitting slow moving tank. At least thematically, I feel like he's really well made.

Off Meta Evan1 votes

you can just Storm raiders off of a frontliner or squishy support and use that movespeed to kill the adc/midlaner. i feel that with the summoner 6 buff that its better on immobile tops like him or garen but thats just me.

thematically. i agree with you, he's a big guy in armor with a big ass axe, he fits that spot on however his other theme is being a dickhead, i feel like his entire kit is centered around being miserable to play against, which if thats what they were going for they succeeded but thats not exactly a good thing. not to mention something thats always bothered me is that the supposed counter play on his Q is to get closer to him.... when he's a champion who exceeds at extended trades..... k.

TequilaZombie2 votes

The problem is that unless Darius is really ahead or is building a crap ton of damage (and is now squishy), he won't be able to proc SRS on the frontliners.

If the squishy support is that close to the frontline he's probably out of position, so I think giving Darius a mov speed boost based on that is a fair punishment.

I think his Q bonus damage/heal is mostly to force SOME kind of skill uppon Darius players.

Weiner the Pooh1 votes

Fiora can't go tanky any more, unless you're calling GA/BC tank.

Off Meta Evan1 votes

if you get item 3071 item 3074 item 3156 that gives you 200 bonus AD if you just brought 20 Ad from runes/masteries. that allows you to do 11% true damage with just your passive and allowing you to get item 3742 item 3065 and the boots of your choosing as defensive items. you deal almost as much true damage as Vayne while having that notorious W and the way tankier base stats to boot. thats a pretty tanky fiora with a decent amount of damage if you ask me.

Weiner the Pooh1 votes

Oh so 44% with every ult, good luck doing anything in team fights or duels, that build would only work if your drastically ahead. because you see, Fiora needs her ult to burst people, even with those resistances you won't be living long in fights because she needs to be right up in the mix, you'll get focused and die just as fast as if you had two more ad items, except this time you run a much lower chance at killing someone.

Off Meta Evan1 votes

44% hp as true damage... okay well assuming that you actually land all of that you should probably just win that team fight due to the fact that you got a massive heal off while dealing that much damage to who ever you ulted. assuming that the opponent isn't a full armor Malphite or something 44% of their hp as true damage plus your dash, plus your E should probably be enough to kill them. not to mention every hit is reducing their armor as well as Maw's pen. and with this build your hp would be 3k assuming you're around level 16. plus the resistances plus the empowered heal from visage, + life steal and assuming you didn't blow your W on something stupid i have literally no idea who is going to burst you down that quickly. you're a top laner so that means you have a mid, adc and jungler that could all very well be high damage threats and most likely are if this is solo que because everyone and their mother is trying to carry the game. if you're bursted down THAT quickly with this build then you probably just didn't get the heal off or got caught out.

Weiner the Pooh1 votes

Even mega tanks get melted in 2-3 seconds, especially with the amount of resistance pen its not worth dedicating half of your build to tank, other bruisers will be able to stop you split push, and you won't have enough damage to burst a carry, especially if they have peel. And considering that 44% hp is basically all of your damage, it really isn't that much.

Off Meta Evan1 votes

okay other bruisers meaning??? who? the only person i can think of at the moment that can actually duel fiora is Illaoi but thats just because she's EXTREMELY strong at the moment with her E buff. and 44% is NOT your only damage thats just preposterous you will have plenty of damage to burst a carry. your total bonus AD with this build would be 200 and your Q at max rank has 105 plus 115% bonus AD thats 335 damage with just one dash as its base damage, not even factoring in pen or the passive, your w's base damage is 250, and your E crits and your total AD for this build at max level would be 316 thats 632 for the crit at max rank. thats 1533 damage in total not factoring in pen or amor reduction or your passive. the average adc's base hp pool is 1800-2000..... are you really trying to tell me you're not gonna kill them? thats not even thinking about auto resets with hydra or the bonus damage on autos it offers. like wtf how are you NOT going to kill them if you get all procs of your passive off? the math literally isn't there. fioras numbers are fucked dude. and for all that damage you would have 3k hp and 133.5 armor if you didn't get ninja tabi if you did then its 158.5. who in gods name is going to not only survive that full combo but also burst you down?

Weiner the Pooh1 votes

How are you gonna get every proc? With peel, most adcs have mobility, they have flash too plus heal, how are you possibly gonna make a fucking circle around them? Even at max cdr Fiora's Q is not low enough to survive being focused by an enemy team on even grounds. There is currently a huge damage creep in LOL, everything does damage, with all resistance pen and %hp damage, its honestly not worth going tank. I haven't seen a tank Fiora do well since patch 6.6.

Off Meta Evan1 votes

because with 30% cdr your Q would be on like a 1.5 second cooldown. which is WAY more mobile than a lot of adc's, your W allows you to negate any cc they might have and slow them, your E is another slow. and chances are that the mid and jungle are also going to be trying to murder adc so thats another 2 champs they'll have to worry about. fiora has literally everything in her kit to succeed with just a few items, i've seen a lot of AD bruiser hybrids for fiora and its fucking hard to deal with if the fiora can actually land abilities. not to mention because you are so tanky, if the enemy goes out of their way to focus you they'll probably lose that fight because they went after the 3k fiora instead of say the 2k no resistances kogmaw.

Weiner the Pooh1 votes

You are grossly over estimating her. For one 30% cdr is almost a 4 second cd landing it, and the range of Q is not enough to reach the enemy back line in a single use, especially not if they are positioned well. her W runs too high of a cd to be used more than once and after that, shes even easier to peel. W should be blocked by either the support or tank, otherwise they're not doing their role right. E is only 30% for 1 second, so that's not even close to any lockdown.

Off Meta Evan1 votes

landing the Q and getting the reset would reduce the Q by 60% so somwhere around 2.8 seconds. while my math was off, thats still A LOT of mobility, and while you can't use it in one burst to catch up to the back line, you can use minions to get the reset allowing you to get in 2 to 3 dashes in chase of an adc. adding in phage and the move speed you get thats more than enough to catch Varus Ashe Jinx Jhin Twitch and sure the E isn't lock down but its fine for catching up to people and on a 5 second cd its slow should be more than enough. your W is on around a 12 second cd with this build so that's good for 2 per team fight i would argue. while yes its true that you'll have a hard time catching Vayne Lucian or Ezreal the same can be said about most champions. i would also argue that fiora has a much better chance at catching them than other top laners or champions in general. her mobility is EXTREMELY high and thats part of the reason why i think her kit doesn't need true damage, she has shit tons of mobility but makes no sacrifice for it, she has plenty of damage, her stats are naturally tanky, and she provides okay utility with her heal.

Weiner the Pooh1 votes

Ok first, she has true damage and the way it is(% hp damage) because she fights everyone equally, ranks, bruisers, carries, mages, everyone, she fights them all equally, that's her thing. Honestly, if a Fiora is getting 2-3 Q's off while using two of those just to catch an adc that's not in a team fight, that's her catching the adc out, that's different, and that's about 8 seconds, how can the team not peel them? That build will not be bursting, there's no excuse for no peel.

And two Ws in a team fight? What kind of team fights are lasting 24-30 seconds? And that's only at level 18, it's not maxed before that.

Off Meta Evan1 votes

as far as peel goes, that 1. assumes the enemy have a good peel comp, 2. the enemy team's tank/frontline is gonna give a single fuck about peeling over murdering your adc. 3. can land said cc to peel. and as i've said before if you have to dedicate THAT much 3 champs in total (adc, support, and top laner/jungler) to dealing with just one champ you're probably gonna win that fight cause that means they had to spend that much time dealing with the top laner over the two other carries on the team. like if you have a Velkoz Zed Vayne or Katarina on your team as well as that fiora that team fight is going to go south for the enemy team because they didn't keep those damage sources in check. and team fights last MUCH longer than they once did, with tank yas, tank ekko and just tanks in general being really viable, team fights last an eternity. and yeah its not maxed out before 18, but i'm talking ABOUT her level 18. thats the primary reason i hate fioras kit, her design is around dueling and outplaying opponents to snowball. you are given everything you NEED in your kit to succeed in this. if you fuck that up, even when you were set up to succeed. you should be punished HEAVILY for it but you get this cushion of a late game instead which i feel makes fighting her feel unrewarding and playing her hollow because no matter how much you fuck up, you will always be useful, it creates a champion that has all the reward with none of the risk.

Weiner the Pooh1 votes

Well that has nothing to do with tank, thats entirely different. The cushion Fiora has late game is built around full ad, late game a tank Fiira doesn't bring damage, not a solid front line and Fiora is a poor diver.

And I really don't know what you're talking about, ask anybody, team fights last a few seconds, then they're over.

Weiner the Pooh1 votes

No they don't drag on, everyone dies so fast, what are you talking about. And Fiora with titanic hasn't been able to do that since early this season, stop bullshitting.

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