Boards›Gameplay

@Riot Why Not Buff Tank items?

GigglesO·Apr 1, 2019·8 votes·5,576 views

Lets be real here. Riots Buffs to Cho, Mundo, Garen are an attempt to get beefy boyz back into a lane other than botlane.

Why not just buff tank items. Start small give them all a combination of 50-100hp/5-10 armor/5-10MR or whatnot.

Sure it seems small but we don't want such a huge swing that we have a tank meta again. Adding more damage to these guys isn't going to do much for the class as a whole. It also doesn't help the game out in terms of balance. I guess if I could get an answer from riot that would be great. A somewhat large chunk of community has been discussing this for at least a season now.

Note: I'm not talking about damage tank items. I'm talking about tank tank items. You know the ones that almost noone uses.
The rest of the items may as well be damage items (even if they have defense attached)

These are damage items:

These items should be changed cautiously because while it isn't a damage item it really makes it so you can get damage off.

21 Comments

Afk on LaneApr 1, 20193 votes

The overall problem with tank is, right now they don't deal any dmg. TOTAL 0. They were nerfed to the core. And im not saying about jugernauts like Garen Darius Renekton . Just any bruiser with conqueror, cant really die from tank 1v1, Tanks are only GOLEMS with some cc. Buffing tank items will also make bruisers stronger because they can use these items, so there is no point to additional buff bruisers . The only way to help tanks is to increase their 1v1 dmg, or potential, to let them trade, to be some threat not a moving dead meat shield, because right now u can't even outdmg conqueror heal as a tank, with item 3076 thats funny, i would need item 3075 . I think that right now in the game there is too much sustain in the game from braindead passives or abilities, that also makes tanks useless in some way. Anyway tank items are fine, the problem is with tank champions.

Its like Irelia vs Sion . Irelia can kill u 5 times in early unless u dont build item 3047 item 3068 item 3076 , U have to play really def to not die even under tower, in this time u fap on lane and wait under tower for creeps. Later she can't kill u , but u can't almost even outdmg sustain. So she win's because u will die first in longer fight.

Tanks are only well used on pro plays, on solo que there is no point to even taking one on top lane , on jungle there are 2 viable tank picks Sejuani Nunu because they have some 1v1 potential. Zac should get buff dmg or reverted and get his old ap scaling while Maokai transfered his hp% dmg to w as it was before or revert also. Maybe it will hurt PRO PLAY, because of lower cc, HOWEVER THEY WILL BE PLAYED ON SOLO QUE and maybe even doing good.

Ornn Poppy maybe have some dmg , but on the other hand they lack tankyness. They are not tanky at all, and Ornn is kinda unmobile, his cc can be easily countered or dodged. Poppy has w, and thats her power just to peel for carry.

vgamedudeApr 1, 20193 votes

"tank meta again"

why is it whenever you have lots of tanks it's a "tank meta" but when you have adc right clicker in bot EVERY GAME for years no one calls it an adc meta?

Such a ridiculous hypocrisy and double standard. Tanks are garbage and useless right now because how overtuned damage is, ESPECIALLY with adc.

hrooza dota Apr 1, 20192 votes

some tanks are not bad at all, so buffing tank items might break those tanks over anything.

changing items should also come with a look at all champions who can use that item.

boricCentaur1Apr 1, 20192 votes

What tank items are really good well the ad ones ap ones not so much like there's a reason why people were complaining about bruisers being to weak before conqueror. Also I play tanks unlike you and can say the problem is the champions are bad not the items like how can any one think item 3193 is a bad item it's one of the best tank items in the game.

Pls actually go and play some tanks since I could write paragraphs on why there really stong but doing that is a waste of time.

AłiceApr 1, 20192 votes

Tanks need early base armor(like melee support champions), and way to sustain(shield/heal/temporary stats buff) from abilities. That's all.

Tahminatrix Apr 1, 20191 votes

That would buff juggernauts/divers more than it would buff tanks, they need to make tank items synergize better with eachother (but nerf them individually to make tanks slightly weaker after first or second back) so there is a bigger difference between a full tank build and a 4 item tank build ( item 3143 item 3065 item 3742 item 3194 ) with item 3071

GigglesOApr 1, 20191 votes

Lets assume you are right and it is a "buff" to divers/Juggernauts.

Here is the deal, What type of buff is it. Its a defense buff... What happens when you build item 3143 instead of item 3053 ? You lose damage!

I had a discussion with a friend that wanted to just slap 20 armor/MR on every single Defense item. My response was that it might not even take much more than 5-10. If we shift just enough champions away from building full damage then there is less damage being dealt. If less damage is dealt tank items become a stronger tool which reinforces building tank items.

So even if it does buff the juggs/divers by making them more durable it also means that they trade some damage in the exchange which reinforces tank items being a better pick up which makes tanks a better pick. Tanks are more useful the longer they live, and the longer the fight lasts. Which fights would last longer if jugg/divers picked up tank items.

Honestly even just having juggs/divers deal less damage because they picked up a defense item instead of a damage item would be a nice change.

Tahminatrix Apr 1, 20192 votes

So youre telling me juggernauts / divers don't ALREADY tend to have ANY pure defensive items in their build? And instead they go full item 3053 item 3071 item 3812 item 3074 item 3047 item 3031

BECAUSE THATS LITERALLY WHAT YOU ARE IMPLYING WHEN YOU SAY IT WOULDNT BUFF DIVERS/JUGGERNAUTS AT ALL, HOW COULD SOMEONE HAVE SUCH LITTLE FORESIGHT.

I don't know what you are smoking but a juggernaught builds

item 3071 maybe item 3053 TWO DAMAGE ITEMS AT MOST

and then pure defensive like item 3143 item 3742 item 3065 item 3047

How are none of these tank items, HOW ARE item 3143 and item 3065 NOT TANK ITEMS

If darius for example already normally buys item 3143 when the enemy has a crit user or two and gets buffed then darius was objectively buffed.

If you buff the defensive items that juggernauts and divers already tend to buy, you are making them better a lot quicker than you are making tanks better because tank items don't synergize with eachother that much and you are much better getting damage items WITH defensive items.

Again, I will repeat my solution which you have ignored, make tank items SYNERGIZE WITH EACHOTHER MORE so that a full tank build will be much more tanky than a 3-4 tank item build.

Take 5 - 10 resistance and 50-100 hp off of each tank item and add bonus % armor and hp to each tank item, and youre done.

RIGHT NOW, AT THIS VERY MOMENT IN TIME

item 3065 item 3047 item 3143 item 3742 item 3110 item 3083

is not much more tanky

than

item 3065 item 3143 item 3047 item 3053 item 3071 item 3742

If it wernt for warmogs hit and run style regen, the tank build would have no hope of ever out tanking sterak`s which is an amazing anti burst/all in item, even for tanks.

Learn to read, we are done here, goodbye.

SaevumApr 1, 20191 votes

If you really want to slide-in some tanks into the top lane meta, you need to start with base stats. Also, you need a list of whom would be the selected few that would stand a chance to be buffed in order to be played. Top lane is currently a nightmare, odds are that even if Riot buffs the rooster, some of them will try to jump somewhere else, which is, an undesirable goal.

ParoeApr 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

If you really want to slide-in some tanks into the top lane meta, you need to start with base stats. Also, you need a list of whom would be the selected few that would stand a chance to be buffed in order to be played. Top lane is currently a nightmare, odds are that even if Riot buffs the rooster, some of them will try to jump somewhere else, which is, an undesirable goal.

You could also just buff tank items from 1000g combine cost down to 700g - reducing their total cost to 2600g since their core itemization is almost all early/mid game items that dont scale well.

item 3065 item 3742 item 3143 item 3068 should all be 2600g since theyre "core" tank items. item 3194 item 3075 item 3001 item 3083 can all stay at their current prices (or even be nerfed to 2900g) because theyre less core and more specialty. item 3110 needs a rework to become a real item... HP+armor would be nice. item 3109 needs a small rework to become a real item. 400HP would be nice. item 3026 needs a ~~revert~~ rework into a hybrid defense item so it parrelels with item 3193 .

I would also suggest reworking all "AP tanks" into AD so that they can better utilize a clearly more balanced itemization if they want to go for damage: Bruiser itemization.

GayFluffyUnicornApr 1, 20191 votes

Tank items are already undercost and overstat we do not need more of that shit.

You just cannot expect tanks to be able to carry an unorganized game. We have tried it again and again tanks are just unhealthy for the game when they are good as they are right now. They will automatically win the laning phase, outscale in teamfights and noone plays bruisers again.

Banishing like 40 champs from the game for the 5 tanks and their 6 mains is just not worth it.

Tank items need to go away from gives a bunch of stats and involve more actives like omen and stoneplate. Their strong kits need to get nerfed and make them good with items, that way bruisers can deal with them in laning phase and have the ability to snowball on them but a tank who can play smart to survive laning phase can carry teamfights by getting into the thick of things with interesting items that do stuff (whatever it is it's 1:15 am in germany and i'm tired i might come up with something tommorrow).

As they are right now buffing tank items will just lead to either tanks being overpowered or champs that aren't supposed to build tank items building them again going full circle back to s6 where everyone just build IBG and Sunfire because of how ridiculous these items were.

ParoeApr 2, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Tank items are already undercost and overstat we do not need more of that shit.

Can i have some proof of this claim? What tank items are above 100% gold efficiency?

You just cannot expect tanks to be able to carry an unorganized game. We have tried it again and again tanks are just unhealthy for the game when they are good as they are right now. They will automatically win the laning phase, outscale in teamfights and noone plays bruisers again.

Tanks dont want to carry. They want to be effective within the window of power they are meant to be effective in; the only late-game 'tanks' are ones with HP granting passives like cho gath and sion. Bruisers make up the rest of the 'tank' roster.

Banishing like 40 champs from the game for the 5 tanks and their 6 mains is just not worth it.

What kind of nihilist chicken little heck is this? Are you listening to yourself?

Tank items need to go away from gives a bunch of stats and involve more actives like omen and stoneplate. Their strong kits need to get nerfed and make them good with items, that way bruisers can deal with them in laning phase and have the ability to snowball on them but a tank who can play smart to survive laning phase can carry teamfights by getting into the thick of things with interesting items that do stuff (whatever it is it's 1:15 am in germany and i'm tired i might come up with something tommorrow).

"go away from a bunch of stats". Sure. Lets make all tank items HP+resistances with occasional CDR or mana. Lets also make all marksman items ASP and crit and movement speed! Oh, and all assassin items need AD and lethality and CDR and out of combat movement speed!

Oh wait...

As they are right now buffing tank items will just lead to either tanks being overpowered or champs that aren't supposed to build tank items building them again going full circle back to s6 where everyone just build IBG and Sunfire because of how ridiculous these items were.

Tanks will never be overpowered in the current state of the game. Theres simply far to many effective ways for a tank to be dealt with for them to dominate unless their name is cho'gath or sion and they got ahead early. Any 'tank' who is currently effective right now is a bruiser and not a tank - the only real exceptions are poppy and maokai... Both of whom are champions who, because of their high base damage, mobility, and scaling, are bruisers with riots handmedown classification of 'tank'.

GodlyBaneApr 1, 20191 votes

N O

Samuel MurphyApr 1, 20191 votes

Honestly it is so easy to make Tank Items way way too good by buffing them.

I think pulling back a little bit of the penetration and true dmg in the game would go a long way without over doing it

FluffehApr 1, 20191 votes

Tank items werent nerfed because of tanks, they were nerfed because non-tanks bought tank items and did too much damage while being too hard to kill(notable ekko) There was a huge reform that gave tanks more stat growth while taking away that growth from the items themselves so other champions wouldnt buy them. This really wasnt that long ago and im surprised to he boards forgot so quickly. Per usual tanks are not the problem with league of legends, its the hyper mobile hyper damage champions, tank meta's are the best meta's.

GigglesOApr 1, 20191 votes

Just give non tanks the ekko treatment. Force them to build damage to get damage.

ParoeApr 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Tank items werent nerfed because of tanks, they were nerfed because non-tanks bought tank items and did too much damage while being too hard to kill(notable ekko) There was a huge reform that gave tanks more stat growth while taking away that growth from the items themselves so other champions wouldnt buy them. This really wasnt that long ago and im surprised to he boards forgot so quickly. Per usual tanks are not the problem with league of legends, its the hyper mobile hyper damage champions, tank meta's are the best meta's.

Because people dont realize that the meta isnt whats actually strong... The meta is what deals with marksmen the best.
Just like Lee-sin and Orianna people have internalized that these things are normal and wont change.

The thigh guyApr 1, 20191 votes

Because the moment tanks are even close to playable everyone else screeches “tank meta tank meta!!! Reeeeeeeeeee”

DecapitationKingApr 2, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Lets be real here. Riots Buffs to Cho, Mundo, Garen are an attempt to get beefy boyz back into a lane other than botlane.

Why not just buff tank items. Start small give them all a combination of 50-100hp/5-10 armor/5-10MR or whatnot.

Sure it seems small but we don't want such a huge swing that we have a tank meta again. Adding more damage to these guys isn't going to do much for the class as a whole. It also doesn't help the game out in terms of balance. I guess if I could get an answer from riot that would be great. A somewhat large chunk of community has been discussing this for at least a season now.

Note: I'm not talking about damage tank items. I'm talking about tank tank items. You know the ones that almost noone uses.
The rest of the items may as well be damage items (even if they have defense attached)

These are damage items:

These items should be changed cautiously because while it isn't a damage item it really makes it so you can get damage off.

Tank items are not the issue with tanks. The issue is characters rocking high attack speed, high Life steal, on top of true damage and or %health damage, lethality etc. No matter how tanky you are over tuned characters like vayne that can eat you while procing crits with bloodthirster and or bork which keeps their hp full... Really just makes it impossible to play tank. It would be nice to see tanks with not very high damage but the ability to genuinely take some hits and not be eaten in a second or 2.

Nerf true damage and %hp, if they have to lower tanks damage to compensate, but make them durable. No point in armor and health if one champ can blow you up and steal enough hp to stay full health

CrazyMonkeyCZApr 1, 2019

No one will play tanks with the cancerous meta top lane has, you either have hypermobile scaling melee( Irelia Riven Jax Akali Sylas ) champ or safe/hypermobile scaling ranged champ( Vladimir Kayle Kennen Jayce Urgot ).

Somehow Darius made it in top 10, I mean, he is strong in lane, but just kitting doll without flash. Also Renek and Olaf as hyperagressive midgame monsters are there. And my favorite new old pick Heca top.

Anyway, playing tank in any of those will make you, it would for me, quit the game. Only tank that fits in this meta is Poppy and that's only bcs of her W.

Also buffing tank items will make them probably more "op" for others than tanks.

GigglesOApr 1, 20192 votes

{quoted}

No one will play tanks with the cancerous meta top lane has

The only reason its cancerous is because we aren't allowed to have defense. So the champions you mentioned are allowed to be played unchecked.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.

GameplayJul 18, 2015764 comments

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.

GameplaySep 1, 2015156 comments

GameplayApr 1, 2016606 comments

GameplayDec 21, 2014456 comments

3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.

GameplaySep 17, 2015114 comments

When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?

GameplayNov 30, 2014634 comments

More by GigglesO

Since we Just Changed Chogath

GameplayFeb 23, 2017124 comments

I can nolonger say League has a place for me.

GameplayJan 10, 2018222 comments

"we're buffing yasuo because he has a large playerbase"

GameplayDec 10, 2017261 comments

Riots Design and Balance team be like:

Memes & GamesDec 20, 201835 comments

If you want to buff rammus and amumu jungle without actually changing anything Major!

GameplayMar 11, 201772 comments

GameplayJan 10, 2019102 comments