Ashe is Perfect

msk51··54 votes·6,001 views

In my humble, un-ranked opinion, I think that Riot nailed Ashe's kit/gameplay. Here are the main reasons why.

  1. She is perfectly balanced From a power perspective, I think Ashe is the perfect balance for an ADC. Under the right scenarios, Ashe can become a monster. An ADC who can deal out tons of damage all the while slowing you, making it impossible to escape. And if you do pop an ability or spell to get good distance off of her, her ult can make sure you don't get far. However, she is also very easy to shut down. If prioritized early game, her lack of an escape makes her an easy target. In other words, she is not an insta-ban champion because she can be dealt with fairly easily, yet she is also highly dangerous on the rift and one ult can change the game.

  2. She is not as un-predictable as other ADC's When Jinx crits a target, the damage is insane. I've seen a squishy get blown up by two crit rockets from a jinx. However, without a crit, those rockets probably wouldn't have taken half the health. It's very hard to determine your damage output. As a mage it's fairly simple as most of the time the damage output is the same. But an ADC has to wonder will I crit, how many times will I crit, will I crit early so he backs away, etc. But Ashe's passive allows for after the first auto attack, every auto attack after that does bonus damage. So similarly to a mage, an Ashe can go into a fight with a rough estimate of what her damage output will be on who.

  3. She is a team ADC I know this is highly contested, but I believe that League is much more of a team game instead of it being a solo skill game. I also firmly believe that ADC's suffer the most when played or playing with people who consider the game to be a solo skill game. This is why I believe Ashe once again rises above the rest. Again, Ashe has no escape and can be very easily picked off. This forces her to play with the team. Unlike a Lucian who can occasionally dash to the front lines, deal an immense amount of burst and then retreat, Ashe stays in the back line, trusting in her teammates to protect her. When protected, the damage output is scary. When left vulnerable, she is easier to kill then a scuttle crab.

  4. Her slow is again, perfectly balanced I've heard many players say that the Ashe slow is op. But here is why i don't think it is. It's not enough to be considered as an escape tool. Yes, kiting becomes infinitely easier with Ashe's slow and out-running an enemy is fairly easy. However, it is important to note that a Frozen Mallet on a melee deals more of a slow than Ashe's passive. And a Frozen Mallet on a ranged deals an equal slow to an Ashe passive. So if anyone on the enemy team has a Frozen Mallet and is able to hit Ashe, her passive is essentially negated. Also, a slow is not enough to defend against a Riven, or LeBlanc, or a Talon or really any other assassins for that matter. Ashe can still be bursted very easily. Lastly, her slow isn't that great of a defensive tool because unlike Lucian or Ezreal who can dash/teleport away from a Jinx ult for instance, Ashe's slow does squat against that. In other words, Ashe's slow is not a very effective "escape" passive as it is more of a "defensive" passive. Although, I agree. Running away from a level 18 Ashe is the most depressing thing ever...

  5. She is not a failure in the laning phase Many people talk about how Ashe is the worst ADC in the laning phase because again, she has no escape. I disagree. If you fail in the laning phase as an ADC playing Ashe, consider changing your play style rather than your champion. I've seen many Ashe's fight as aggressively as a Lucian would in lane. Constantly trading and trying to poke and get kills. In my opinion, this is the easiest way to get killed as an Ashe in laning. You have to sit back and farm. Yes, due to her higherish range she has good poke potential, but this hardly means kill potential. And God forbid the enemy supp is anyone with a stun, knock-up, hook, or slow (Pretty much all supp right?). If Ashe over-extends in laning phase, a half health Lucian with the exact same items in my opinion can easily kill a full health Ashe. That being said, once Ashe hits level 6, her ult changes everything.

  6. Her ult is amazing! I don't really know what to say here. I mean, the things you can do with Ashe's ult are limitless. Everyone talks about how Kalista has the best ADC initiation. I disagree. For a Kalista initiation to work, one must have a semi-tanky supp. Otherwise you are just feeding the enemy team your supp. But with Ashe, it doesn't matter who your supp is. Setting up teamfights, picks, saving an ally who is being chased, stopping an enemy from stealing baron by stopping him on his way down are all ways to use her ult, and are all ways I have seen the ult be used first hand.

  7. Hawksot is as valuable as her ult Again, I don't really know what to say here. Her hawkshot is her only defensive item, but it has so many more uses. Sending out two hawkshots can usually cover all the eseential parts of the bottom jungle, or at least enough to know if the enemy is there or not. If you see him, then it's not a good time to initiate. If you don't, then fire off the ult! In the late game, sometimes a hawkshot is enough to scare the enemy team off of a baron or elder dragon. But if not, which is more often that not the case, it's still a valuable tool. If you see the enemy team just starting baron, your team has many options. Go for another objective, go try to steal baron, go try to stop baron, etc. If you see the baron is low health, then the priorities and options change. The best thing about her hawkshot? Nothing can stop it. I hate placing a ward only to have some lucky supp with oracle alteration stroll buy and destroy it. With hawkshot, granted the vision is only a few seconds vs. minutes, but nothing can stop the vision.

Those are just a couple of my thoughts. I got to point 7 and realized that it was way too long and if you read this all, you should get a medal or prize. :)

Again, I haven't even ranked so my stance on Ashe could be way off, please let me know if they are!

Edit: If you reply, I ask a lot of opposing questions to the points that you bring up. I am not trying to argue or debate, it's just that other people's analysis and opinions have always fascinated me and I want to know more. I don't know of any other way to learn more than to ask questions from the opposing viewpoint. So again, I'm not trying to argue or debate, I'm genuinely interested in what you have to say.

153 Comments

QjTHqo3RTq5 votes

I think ashe is a bit too strong with the current items, seeing how she's one of the top tier adcs right now, but that's i think she just needs a small tweak to her great poke but also really high consistent damage with her q

msk518 votes

Yeah, I hear you. She is leaning on the strong end right now. Do you think Riot should nerf Ashe a bit or nerf the items a bit? No right or wrong answer, I just like hearing different views and opinions.

QjTHqo3RTq1 votes

Like I said, I think her's kit interaction with said items, i dont think the items themselves are too strong, nor would her kit if they were differnet, but i think a smaller tick on q would put her right into "strong but very balanced" from "like caitlyn, but better in almost every way"

msk511 votes

Gotcha, that makes sense! Her Q with a Runaan's Hurricane is nasty, especially since they apply the slow effect as well.

QjTHqo3RTq1 votes

100%, and it applies fervor extremely fast if i understand the nature of her q correctly

msk511 votes

I believe it does. I might be wrong on that though... The life steal you can get off of a single Q with bloodthirster is also very strong.

Terchio1 votes

Fast, but not that fast. If you're implying that RH's bolts stack her Q charges, answer is that they don't. AS does help, though.

msk511 votes

No, although that'd be kind of op/cool. :) I was saying that RH's bolts also fire three times when Ashe's Q is on. These bolts apply to life steal and apply the slow effect so it's really powerful. Quick question, do you build two or one zeal items on Ashe, I've heard strong arguments for both...

Terchio1 votes

Been a while. I was a fan of RH + PD to increase the kiting ability to the max. RH is quite strong on her, for sure, because of that Q.

msk511 votes

Yeah definately. I've seen a lot of PDs on her as well. Blade of the Ruined King is popular to since it has the attack speed.

Jasiwel1 votes

IMO her W range might be too long for what it does. It's super long ranged for a high AD Ratio'd AoE ability with slow AoE. Then again, the AoE slow is a necessity. Would decreasing the damage after it reaches a certain distance be too much?

msk511 votes

Hmm... that's a good question! The range is especially long, but I feel like it does balance out a little because even minions can block the ability.

Jasiwel1 votes

Definitely true. It's easily blockable and Ashe is strictly immobile. She's in a relatively precarious situation in terms of balance due to how well-rounded she is on top of her immobility. At the same time, other ADCs are doing exceptional right now (Miss Fortune, Twitch) and so we have to ask if there is actually a blatant balance issue with the champion or if it is simply the result of a meta/itemization shift.

In these kinds of situations, it is important look at oppressive aspects of a champion's kit. Do we want Ashe to be a kite ADC with team fight lockdown capabilities? Does that mean she should have solid poke damage in the laning phase? Is her strength in sustained burst damage later in the game? Is that strength in tandem with her ultimate? Will these changes keep her centered for a long time, or just momentarily?

Honestly, I think she's fine - she has distinct weaknesses and a lot of built-in counterplay, on top of some annoying nuances in situations where her opponent is ahead (stacking Q is really hard without help). Riot is reaching a point where they have figured out how strong they want ADCs to be in the grand picture of the game, and Ashe has actually found a point where she excels appropriately.

I think if any ADC needs to be focused on, it's Varus. Do we want him to be an ADC? Do we want him to be an AD Caster in middle lane? Sadly, buffs of any kind make his middle laning stronger, so putting him into a spot of power in the bottom lane just can't happen without a rework of some kind. Then we have to ask ourselves if Varus can even fit in the bottom lane regularly anymore.

msk511 votes

Hmm, another good question! :) And personally, I don't see how MF is so good... During her ultimate all it takes is for one assassin to get to her and then poof! She's dead. Ashe is immobile yes, but MF doesn't even move during her ult...

Jasiwel1 votes

I actually play MF, so I can shed some light on why. MF has two strong builds you can go based on your preference or situations. She also has conditional, gradual mobility (better than immobility) and flexibility in her ability prioritization. Against Cait/Ez/Lucian/Vayne, the four most popular ADCs, she can go Q-centric and bully them upfront. Against Jhin/Ashe/Twitch she can make use of their immobility and average range by maximizing E to oppress them from afar.

Ghostblade/Cleaver/Duskblade/MercScim/InfinityEdge/Greaves. Just as Lucian became stronger from the BC cost decrease and past Ghostblade changes, MF became stronger because those items became easier to buy on top of synergizing really well with her kit. With this build, she can deal an extreme amount of damage with her Ultimate without needing Critical damage, then Duskblade makes her Single-Target damage much stronger. This build is great against beefier enemy teams and makes MF dangerous to confront directly.

The next build is 70-100% Crit MF. EssenceReaver/InfinityEdge/PhantomDancer/BloodThirster/ArmorPen/Greaves. I like this build personally and it gives her some incredibly well-rounded damage. Her ultimate does ridiculous damage through Crit, Phantom Dancer is extremely useful on MF, Infinity Edge was just buffed, and MF loves CDR on top of Essence Reaver's mana-restoring passive. This build is great against squishier teams, but can also work fine against beefier enemies. If the entire enemy team is squishy, then I go 100% Crit and obliterate everything.

Decent MF players are super aware of what the enemy team can do to them, so they will know when to ult and when to reposition for an ult. IMO, it's more difficult to reposition Jhin or even Ashe than it is to reposition MF, even going as far as saying MF is great to pick into those two as a result.

msk511 votes

Wow!! I really want to try out MF now!! Thanks for the analysis man!! I'm going to try those builds out sometime soon hopefully.

AramsAreBest1 votes

You are a star

msk511 votes

Lol, you wouldn't say that if you saw my last 3 ADC games... xD

ModCaptainMårvelous3 votes

I disagree for one major reason: Assassin reworks by at least the end of the year.

As an ADC with no mobility and frankly "Ok" DPS output, she's fodder for Assassins. Once they get some tweaks that make them more relevant, Ashe will be a lot worse for ware. No need to staple a nerf atop that.

msk512 votes

True, very true. Playing Ashe will become a lot harder. But with the right team peal and also the very rare but still amazing flash/ult plays, don't think Ashe can't hold her own? I'm not sure myself. But I do agree. Without a good team to back her up, even now Ashe is a sitting duck.

ValyrianBlade2 votes

Except that right now, Ashe is the strongest ADC out there. I don't think you can call the strongest champion in a role "perfectly balanced".

Maybe Ashe is just numerically strong and her kit is fine. Honestly, this may be the case. In which case she just needs some SEVERE numerical nerfs. Your post outlines why exactly: Ashe is predictable and has clear strengths and weaknesses. Such a champion should NOT be the highest win rate in its class, ESPECIALLY with an over 10% play rate.

The game is not in a healthy state when Ashe is strong, because she brings too much utility to the table.

Maybe I'm kind of salty. I had a ranked game today against the following comp: Irelia top, Malphite jg, Lissandra Mid, Braum Support, Ashe ADC.

What do you even do against that? Teams like that are literally built to be unbeatable unless you shit on them in every lane. All 5 of them have hard CC, and Irelia is the only one without a second CC move. Then all except Braum have good damage.

A utility ADC like Ashe needs to be numerically weak. She shouldn't be able to scale in to dealing loads of damage unless she gets extremely fed. She brings too much utility (an infinite range 3.5 second stun is insanely valuable in any situation) for it to be fair for her to have the damage output she has, let alone the poke and the slowing ability.

Again, maybe all she needs are numerical nerfs. I've found Ashe to be a huge pain to deal with ever since her rework though. My most hated lane opponent.

msk511 votes

Lol, first off I want to apologize. Any Lissandra/Ashe, Sejuani/Ashe, Lissandra/Sejuani combo is made to create flamers and rage quitters. xD

But without an escape, isn't it kind of easy to focus her in team fights and pick her off? And if she's well protected, that's just a good team/team comp instead of an OP champion right?

I say this every time, but I honestly am not trying to argue or to debate. I am just a fairly new player and I love other peoples analysis and opinions on things. I don't really know how else to get that without asking opposing questions. Sorry if it seems like I'm challenging everyone. Not my intentions.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

{quoted}

Lol, first off I want to apologize. Any Lissandra/Ashe, Sejuani/Ashe, Lissandra/Sejuani combo is made to create flamers and rage quitters. xD

But without an escape, isn't it kind of easy to focus her in team fights and pick her off? And if she's well protected, that's just a good team/team comp instead of an OP champion right?

I say this every time, but I honestly am not trying to argue or to debate. I am just a fairly new player and I love other peoples analysis and opinions on things. I don't really know how else to get that without asking opposing questions. Sorry if it seems like I'm challenging everyone. Not my intentions.

The point I was trying to emphasize is that an ADC with that much utility is troublesome if she deals too much damage.

Lissandra and Malphite and Irelia have similar problems. Lots of utility with high damage output just makes for potential imbalance. Once you throw them all in to the same team, you realize just how bad it is. You can't target anyone because if they're grouped as 5 they can literally CC your whole team AND kill you while you're cc'd. You can't split unless you're able to 1v1 any of them (and even then, with as much CC as they have, your team probable can't force the 4v3 if they send two at you).

It's not just Ashe, just that she's the highest damage dealer in the group with loads of utility. Well, fine, irelia is worse. But Ashe actually has more utility than Irelia.

msk512 votes

Gotcha!! I see what you mean now. And yeah, I can also see how that'd be frustrating... Since you are higher level and more experienced than me, what would you do to counter that?

My first thought is to go heavy wave clear so that you can split push, forcing them to go top or bot. If all 5 go top, then the bot push gets very far. If they split up, there's a chance that they could be killed.... Thoughts? I suppose they could just all mid though forcing everyone to go back to base... How would you counter a team comp like that?

BluePolarizer2 votes

don't randomly teamfight them then. pick ppl off. only lissandra has an escape.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

{quoted}

don't randomly teamfight them then. pick ppl off. only lissandra has an escape.

Hence the "every lane needs to win". If they're ahead they just group 5 and push mid (that's what happened).

BluePolarizer2 votes

it depends on your team comp but if you have at least 1 strong splitpusher, you could force them apart.

Otherwise, you just got stomped early against a team that has no business stomping early, and paid the price.

Anihaku1 votes

Her ultimate is fair IMO because the stun length scales with the distance the arrow has traveled. I would fully agree with your point if the 'R' was an automatic 3.5 second stun (imagine that :D).

ValyrianBlade1 votes

{quoted}

Her ultimate is fair IMO because the stun length scales with the distance the arrow has traveled. I would fully agree with your point if the 'R' was an automatic 3.5 second stun (imagine that :D).

Yes, I understand and agree. I don't really think there's a problem with Ashe's kit, just that she's too strong right now. She does damage comparable to any other ADC (more than many). She scales as well as any of them. Then she has all of that utility to boot. I mean, sure, the likes of Lucian or Ezreal can stay with her because of their mobility. Caitlyn, Jinx, Twitch, Tristana, Corki, Sivir, etc... all pale in comparison to her right now though. She brings all the damage they do, with much more utility. She should be sacrificing some damage to have her utility is all.

Anihaku1 votes

I definitely could see her having to sacrifice something in the future if she stays this way and I wonder what exactly they would have in mind to assess her current prominence. I loved the change to her 'Q' where the stacks now fall off 1 by 1 as opposed to all at once. Would reverting this change sacrifice enough to satisfy you or would you want more/rather it be from another part of her kit?

Elisheva2 votes

Easy doesn't mean perfect.

msk513 votes

Lol, is Ashe easy? If anything I think Ashe is harder because she has no dash or teleport...

Bârd3 votes

I think he means mechanically.

She is very basic in that aspect.

Ashe requires good positioning, map awareness, aim, and kiting.

Positioning is not unique to Ashe, it is just more important for her than for a more mobile ADC who can escape. Map awareness is crucial to everyone, but Ashe is just more able to help around the map than other ADCs. Aim is important for Ashe, as her arrow is huge. That said, she only really has to aim one thing, where someone like Ezreal has to constantly aim and land Q's. Kiting is important for Ashe, but on what ADC is kiting NOT important? Ashe is just innately better at it than most.

Lady Hammerlock1 votes

Rank 5 Ashe here and personally i have to agree with most of this post except the part where you don't trade or poke,unless your against a caitlyn or varus champions whose ranges are farther and to close to yours respectively ashe is really good at punishing enemy laners(thanks to her 600 attack range)for taking 1 step to far,she doesn't have to do much either if an enemy steps to far just auto>Q>auto>W then continue last hitting unless your support ants to get a kill or something,if you wanna play it safer just poke with your W.

The fact that she's a team oriented ADC is why I like her,she can never be considered useless even when behind because her slow,vision and stun are all great forms of utility,She's even scarier if you go even in lane or get ahead because then you'll literally be a machine gun using arrows instead of bullets

although she might get nerfs pretty soon,her win rate in all regions is pretty high,and she's pretty strong atm and got buffed this patch indirectly when item 3508 item 3031 and the item 3035 items got buffed,giving her +20 AD at full build

If you excuse me,ill get mastery 5 on 1 more champion so i can rank up ashe

msk512 votes

Nice! Congrats on being rank 5!

But if Ashe pushes enemy laners, wouldn't she be especially vulnerable to ganks? Her lack of an escape makes it almost impossible in my experience... What are your thoughts?

And yes!! That's why I love Ashe as well. I really like champions who work well with the team and who make the team function smoothly as a unit, not 5 individual champions.

Lady Hammerlock1 votes

{quoted}

Nice! Congrats on being rank 5!

But if Ashe pushes enemy laners, wouldn't she be especially vulnerable to ganks? Her lack of an escape makes it almost impossible in my experience... What are your thoughts?

And yes!! That's why I love Ashe as well. I really like champions who work well with the team and who make the team function smoothly as a unit, not 5 individual champions.

You can still freeze the lane,her W might hit a few minions which pushes it a bit,but you need to continue freezing

Your intention is to Damage the enemy laner not to push the wave,i do it a lot and its never really pushed the wave in to far I noted the trade combo wrong it should be W>auto>Q(for an AA reset)>auto then you can stop or keep autoing using the W first assuming you have 0 crit chance means your doing 10% more dmg because you'd slow the target

And heres a fun fact,after the nerfs of her rework they removed the Q's ability to deal damage to structures,but after the marksmen update if you stack focus on minions then Q,the Q will dmg the structure!

ZeeWolfZ1 votes

More like:

trASHE

msk513 votes

Lol, at least give us the top 3 reasons why you think so?

ZeeWolfZ1 votes

I find her early very weak.

Without a support who synergises with her, she is beyond Useless.

Ashe players tend to hug turrets during teamfights, instead of helping out.

I find a lot of players who do not play adc role Pick ashe and feed.

Just my experience.

She is surprisingly high skill champion with very simple kit. Also, her E, garbage (she could use a real escape instead of that ability)

msk513 votes

I definitely know what you mean on your supp point. Ashe needs a good team that'll stick with her and protect her and in the laning phase, if her supp can't do that things go down hill pretty fast. And lol, apologies for your Ashe experiences.

On the vision point, I have to strongly disagree. The uses and benefits that come from global vision essentially whenever you want it it a huge advantage to a team. Although you are right in the point that Ashe's lack of a real escape makes her vulnerable.

President Swa1n1 votes

But then again, most marksmen shouldn't really have escapes

msk512 votes

Out of curiosity, why not?

President Swa1n1 votes

I feel as though Marksmen as a class are supposed to be the least mobile champions with the weakest early games. I suppose I see it fitting for their theme although when you have champions like Vayne, I can understand why mobility would fit in. At the moment, I don't see an issue in this regard with any Marksmen (i.e.e none of them can escape as reliably as, say, Riven).

msk513 votes

Gotcha, I see your point. And yeah, I think the best marksmen escape right now is Ez... The teleport is pretty strong.

Anihaku1 votes

I would say Ezreal and Lucian

msk511 votes

Lucian is really good as well, but it's not as far as Ezreal's right? Or am I wrong...

President Swa1n1 votes

I agree, Ezreal's is far superior. Lucian's escapes also revolve around his extra movespeed from Black Cleaver and Yomuu's active

msk512 votes

Gotcha, I also like how Ez's teleport fires a bolt afterwards. With Lucian you get the double-shot but I feel like Ez's damage is easier...

President Swa1n1 votes

Wow, I didn't even know that XD. And with that Iceborn Gauntlet build, I guess it'd make it easy to kite away, wouldn't it?

msk511 votes

I'm not sure if the bolt applies to iceborn gauntlet. I have no idea. xD But a blue build Ez usually should have no trouble kiting.

More from Gameplay

More by msk51