New spicy A-Atrox changes

Abibyama II·Mar 21, 2019·20 votes·13,006 views

https://twitter.com/RiotRepertoir/status/1108603154130624512?s=20

During R his Q and E is on URF mode and he instead of a revive he gets a Volibear passive

71 Comments

Hexs FortuneMar 21, 201910 votes

Aatrox needs something. Poor guy has been gutted for the 99 percent due to abuse in pro play.

I'd like him to be more of a duelist than an R bot, but we shall see.

Abibyama IIMar 21, 20191 votes

I feel like now he will be good in solo q and garbage in pro if this goes through

SuperTopLFBottomMar 21, 20199 votes

Let's just revert aatrox so the people who enjoy him can have fun with the game.

This is a joke now. Rework champ, gut him, then make stupid change after stupid change to get him out of pro play.

Abibyama IIMar 21, 20195 votes

Nah

flibitydooMar 21, 20192 votes

yeah hows that -800 million dollar revenue working out for ya there

Abibyama IIMar 21, 20192 votes

Dunno what you're talking about or how's that got to do with anything

SuperTopLFBottomMar 22, 20191 votes

[deleted]

Abibyama IIMar 22, 20191 votes

no u

Vlada CutMar 21, 20197 votes

NO. HIS R REVIVAL IS HIS SIGNATURE SPELL. NO. NO. NO. DON'T REMOVE HIS UNIQUENESS LIKE YOU DID WITH IRELIA PASSIVE AND R. Just revert his E nerfs already! I don't want you to ruin Riot Jags creations how about you gut more CT's champions. [sg-shisa]

Sir SaltarinMar 21, 20197 votes

Reverting the E nerfs would be making him busted again.

His revive has to go, it's one of the reasons why he is strong on pro play while being Ryze tier on soloQ.

Maybe this change fails, but it's a good try to maybe balance this overloaded champ

Crescent DuskMar 22, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QHvwUg3s,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-03-21T12:41:27.350+0000)

Reverting the E nerfs would be making him busted again.

His revive has to go, it's one of the reasons why he is strong on pro play while being Ryze tier on soloQ.

Maybe this change fails, but it's a good try to maybe balance this overloaded champ

Kayle gets an immunity, Trynda another long ass immunity to right click you to death, all these can stay offensive while extending their lifespan whereas Aatrox revive just stalls.

IP MasquerenaMar 22, 20191 votes

Remind me, when was Feedamere played in pro play last time? And I don't mean winning, but going like "hey, finally I'm picked".

Aatrox wasn't only played, he was murdering it.

Crescent DuskMar 22, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Remind me, when was Feedamere played in pro play last time? And I don't mean winning, but going like "hey, finally I'm picked".

Aatrox wasn't only played, he was murdering it.

Remind me, when was Riven picked in pro play? Then I guess she must be totally fine! Vayne barely picked in pro play compared to Ezrael and Kai'sa, guess Vayne is just fine too.

Sir SaltarinMar 22, 20191 votes

And none of them are a high contested pick on pro play while being meme tier on soloQ as he is.

Ayaytrox is unbalanced by design and needs more than number buffs/nerfs to make him a balanced champ.

Maybe this change fails, but it's worth the try.

Iota ThetaMar 21, 201913 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vlada Cut,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QHvwUg3s,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-03-21T12:28:58.025+0000)

NO. HIS R REVIVAL IS HIS SIGNATURE SPELL. NO. NO. NO. DON'T REMOVE HIS UNIQUENESS LIKE YOU DID WITH IRELIA PASSIVE AND R. Just revert his E nerfs already! I don't want you to ruin Riot Jags creations how about you gut more CT's champions. [sg-shisa]

I mean, he technically still has it, just without the stasis. I have a feeling lethal damage will either lead to an instant or super fast heal.

Vlada CutMar 26, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Iota Theta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QHvwUg3s,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-03-21T13:24:50.892+0000)

I mean, he technically still has it, just without the stasis. I have a feeling lethal damage will either lead to an instant or super fast heal.

Get's one shot by a fed Rengar even with Blood Well's HP. Sure, I like how I can't even have 3 seconds to live while reviving whule building Ninja tabi. Entertain me. Wuat other change is good? Th3 fact his E will have even HIGHER CD than he currently has right now? Disgusting.

Iota ThetaMar 26, 20191 votes

Get's one shot by a fed Rengar

[while] building Ninja tabi.

Now, I’m no expert, but I’m pretty sure you need more than just Ninja Tabi to not be bursted by current Rengar. Doesn’t help that his burst is insane to begin with, but, let’s be real, any champ needs more than a Ninja Tabi when it comes to assassins.

But..that’s also only one instance of a character.

Entertain me. Wuat other change is good? The fact his E will have even HIGHER CD than he currently has right now?

Well, his E was actually a lower CD compared to live until rank 3, which is an early buff, especially since he doesn’t max it first. A perk will be that as he does level it, the heal percentage was actually buffed.

But, you can be happy cause everything on PBE for him was reverted back to live. It was all experimental. I’d like to see it come back, but that’s me. I saw it as a good change, especially given his kit’s focus on his Q, and granted more uses of Umbral Dash during the ult. It encouraged being used more offensively, for a champ that’s currently an odd juggernaut-diver mix, and rewarded getting good hits by making Blood Well fill by what your heal values. The change also gave some benefit if you get a good ult, some good early hits, but the enemy still disengages from you, since even if they don’t hit you with lethal damage, you will heal.

There were good changes. Perhaps Repertoir wasn’t too satisfied with them, or they want to do some extra tuning.

But at least they aren’t forgetting about him after all the hits they gave him.

Vlada CutMar 27, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Iota Theta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QHvwUg3s,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2019-03-26T12:38:37.643+0000)

Now, I’m no expert, but I’m pretty sure you need more than just Ninja Tabi to not be bursted by current Rengar. Doesn’t help that his burst is insane to begin with, but, let’s be real, any champ needs more than a Ninja Tabi when it comes to assassins.

But..that’s also only one instance of a character.

Well, his E was actually a lower CD compared to live until rank 3, which is an early buff, especially since he doesn’t max it first. A perk will be that as he does level it, the heal percentage was actually buffed.

But, you can be happy cause everything on PBE for him was reverted back to live. It was all experimental. I’d like to see it come back, but that’s me. I saw it as a good change, especially given his kit’s focus on his Q, and granted more uses of Umbral Dash during the ult. It encouraged being used more offensively, for a champ that’s currently an odd juggernaut-diver mix, and rewarded getting good hits by making Blood Well fill by what your heal values. The change also gave some benefit if you get a good ult, some good early hits, but the enemy still disengages from you, since even if they don’t hit you with lethal damage, you will heal.

There were good changes. Perhaps Repertoir wasn’t too satisfied with them, or they want to do some extra tuning.

But at least they aren’t forgetting about him after all the hits they gave him.

Ninka Tabi GA and Steraks Gage isn't enough. You still get bursted down and he can't invest into more armor cause he needs lethality and DD.

Iota ThetaMar 27, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vlada Cut,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QHvwUg3s,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-27T12:33:11.420+0000)

Ninka Tabi GA and Steraks Gage isn't enough. You still get bursted down and he can't invest into more armor cause he needs lethality and DD.

So, two lower armor items with no health, a lifeline passive, a GA, and the Blood Well from ult is nothing to a Rengar? But again, that’s a Rengar specific issue, and he needs work done on him.

Aatrox doesn’t really need the lethality. He can use it well, and it’s handy, but it’s not a necessity. I’ve seen Cleaver built more often than Lethality on him. I have a feeling Ghostblade’s biggest perk to him is the AD and the active.

Say the main core are DD for the AD and healing, GA for the classic revive, and either Cleaver or Sterak’s (not both here). That leaves two slots, could go for health/resist items, maybe a Spirit Visage to augment healing and for Magic damage, and maybe either a Dead Man’s Plate or Randuin’s for more armor and to cut kiting. If Sterak’s Gage is necessary on top of Cleaver, my gut instinct would be to swap out the DMP/Randuin’s, since the reduction wouldn’t feel as bad with GA and probably Tabi (match dependent) as compared to losing the MR.

Granted, that is theoretical and experimental, though sounds like it could be useful and might give it a try now. Death’s Dance rush can be handy depending on matchup.

Vlada CutMar 28, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Iota Theta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QHvwUg3s,comment-id=000100010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-27T13:24:41.369+0000)

So, two lower armor items with no health, a lifeline passive, a GA, and the Blood Well from ult is nothing to a Rengar? But again, that’s a Rengar specific issue, and he needs work done on him.

Aatrox doesn’t really need the lethality. He can use it well, and it’s handy, but it’s not a necessity. I’ve seen Cleaver built more often than Lethality on him. I have a feeling Ghostblade’s biggest perk to him is the AD and the active.

Say the main core are DD for the AD and healing, GA for the classic revive, and either Cleaver or Sterak’s (not both here). That leaves two slots, could go for health/resist items, maybe a Spirit Visage to augment healing and for Magic damage, and maybe either a Dead Man’s Plate or Randuin’s for more armor and to cut kiting. If Sterak’s Gage is necessary on top of Cleaver, my gut instinct would be to swap out the DMP/Randuin’s, since the reduction wouldn’t feel as bad with GA and probably Tabi (match dependent) as compared to losing the MR.

Granted, that is theoretical and experimental, though sounds like it could be useful and might give it a try now. Death’s Dance rush can be handy depending on matchup.

Aatrox never builds armor and health items, he either builds ad and armor or ad and hp items so his Q's dage would always stay rellevant. What the fuck go play a champion then talk about it. What else you gonna say? Tell an AD to build njnja tabi and randuins?

Iota ThetaMar 28, 20191 votes

So, I have been working on playing him, and trying different things. His Q has high damage, and when the changes were proposed for PBE, it would’ve had no CD and could dish out continuous damage. I couldn’t test it, but decided to theorize and test with what I could. I had one match where the only AD item I built early on was a Death’s Dance, then a Dead Man’s and Spirit Visage, and still dealt good damage, not to mention healing a lot more. Granted, mileage may vary based on matchup and rank, but he still felt like he dealt good damage, especially in a meta where people just don’t build much defense.

What else you gonna say? Tell an AD to build njnja tabi and randuins?

I’m honestly not sure what point you are trying to make here. Many ADs build Ninja Tabi if necessary, and Randuin’s is a good situational buy on champs that need the defense, particularly bulky builds like for tanks, Juggernauts, and some divers. The health and armor is nice, the Attack Speed slow is handy against ADCs, the slow active helps you stick to champs, and then reduction of crit damage. It’s a solid buy for a champ that may want defensive items. I would absolutely suggest defensive items to champions, especially one that helps them stay with their target.

R107 GamesMar 21, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vlada Cut,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QHvwUg3s,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-03-21T12:28:58.025+0000)

NO. HIS R REVIVAL IS HIS SIGNATURE SPELL. NO. NO. NO. DON'T REMOVE HIS UNIQUENESS LIKE YOU DID WITH IRELIA PASSIVE AND R. Just revert his E nerfs already! I don't want you to ruin Riot Jags creations how about you gut more CT's champions. [sg-shisa]

His revive is the thing that makes him hard to balance and broken in pro play.

"Uniqueness" should not be a factor in balance for when that uniqueness is the thing that breaks the champion.

I think Aatrox would be more balanced as a true juggernaut, not an assassin/diver

y0r1ckMar 21, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=R107 Games,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QHvwUg3s,comment-id=00010003,timestamp=2019-03-21T15:30:45.101+0000)

His revive is the thing that makes him hard to balance and broken in pro play.

"Uniqueness" should not be a factor in balance for when that uniqueness is the thing that breaks the champion.

I think Aatrox would be more balanced as a true juggernaut, not an assassin/diver

Yeah I came here to post this, I also think he gets picked in pro mainly for his revive. I saw someone else say that his revive is his signature spell, I'm guessing riot wants to avoid a shen situation - where a champion is picked in pro for a specific niche for multiple seasons.

As for the changes themselves, I think it's close to a fair trade off.

RagnaveilMar 21, 20195 votes

I'm a main of both versions, and honestly I like this change if it means more power can be adjusted to the kit at the sacrifice of a GA. I rather be rewarded for doing damage than having to wait for someone to kill me but then not kill me. But I will say, the change practically makes Aatrox a Spear of Shojin Riven.

Iota ThetaMar 21, 20192 votes

{quoted}

I'm a main of both versions, and honestly I like this change if it means more power can be adjusted to the kit at the sacrifice of a GA. I rather be rewarded for doing damage than having to wait for someone to kill me but then not kill me. But I will say, the change practically makes Aatrox a Spear of Shojin Riven.

At least his Q is still dodgable and doesn’t have aa cancelling, or at least no nearly as bad. With that, it’s more possible to prevent as much blood well since it’s based off his healing.

I feel the need to see if i can still access PBE and reinstall just to test it.

RagnaveilMar 21, 20192 votes

I do hope that they might increase the cast speed

Iota ThetaMar 21, 20193 votes

{quoted}

I do hope that they might increase the cast speed

Gameplay wise, I understand that. Thematically...I have to admit to enjoying the slight delay given the size of the blade, makes it feel like it has a bit more weight behind it. Then again, Ornn is one of my favorites because of playing around his delays.

But for a figher, definitely understand that request.

RagnaveilMar 21, 20192 votes

Like, I feel like they should since they made the change to make him have only one dash charge. More times than not when I play Aatrox someone just stuns me out of my q's more times than I hit them, or when I pop out of World Ender's revive sequence with Q3 up, more times than not it doesn't heal me for much or I die in the last millisecond before it lands. His healing against champs needs to be buffed. Its not hard for someone to buy heal kill unless they are a mage, but I honesty see at most 3 ignites on the enemy team, and one ignite is mostly run by mages on the enemy team in my matches.

Rathar DashingMar 21, 20195 votes

does this mean we can get Battle Bunny Aatrox

Iota ThetaMar 21, 20194 votes

That is...terrifying..gimme.

The CD refreshing of Umbral Dash would feel pretty nice after working toward 6 with only one dash. Likely makes it a lot easier to hit all three Q’s, and gives his ult an interesting in-combat spike beyond some extra AD and the rez. Curious to test it.

Edit, I just realized the change the the Blood Well stacking and proc, encourages making sure to use it offensively, and rewarded for doing so by allowing the heal even if you don’t take lethal damage.

Abibyama IIMar 21, 201910 votes

Q has no cooldown during R btw >:)

Iota ThetaMar 21, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Abibyama II,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QHvwUg3s,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-03-21T12:42:43.060+0000)

Q has no cooldown during R btw >:)

Gimme gimme. Weaving and Q’ing all through those fights.

On the “playing against” side, at least Q can still be played around the sweet spot to allow his opponents some counterplay even in that situation.

I think I had access to PBE to test it, but I haven’t reinstalled it in a while.

Iota ThetaMar 21, 20192 votes

By the way, he does clarify in a response tweet, but the lethal damage does treat it still as a revive, just no stasis. Probably instant or super fast heal at that point.

Abibyama IIMar 21, 20191 votes

Oh la laa

Anu3isIIMar 22, 20191 votes

Does he maintain his R when taking lethal damage? He would be broken if he does.

Iota ThetaMar 22, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Does he maintain his R when taking lethal damage? He would be broken if he does.

My gut wants to say no, since even now, proccing the revive/heal would end the effect. However, I cannot confirm without testing it.

MavëríckMar 21, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Abibyama II,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QHvwUg3s,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-03-21T11:41:07.424+0000)

https://twitter.com/RiotRepertoir/status/1108603154130624512?s=20

During R his Q and E is on URF mode and he instead of a revive he gets a Volibear passive

Once again, Riot has no clue what the community wants, and no idea what balance or subtlety fucking is.

All they have to do is give back his double dash or speed up his Q animation. You are so dumb Riot Devs, it's insulting.

Sir SaltarinMar 21, 20192 votes

Why should they listen to a community that just wants to make Ayaytrox busted again ?

MavëríckMar 21, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QHvwUg3s,comment-id=000d0001,timestamp=2019-03-21T19:19:41.767+0000)

Why should they listen to a community that just wants to make Ayaytrox busted again ?

Where did I say I want him busted or anyone else? I want him playable. I want him competitive outside of the handful of pros that play him in a heavily team oriented environment. Those guys can cover Aatrox weaknesses through a team comp, but it's the ONLY way to do so. I've seen tons of pro Aatrox footage and it's staggering just how much help Aatrox needs, and how little help he gives in return. I don't for one second think the player is bad, I think it's an awesome player making a very bad champion "do ok" at best.

Sir SaltarinMar 21, 20191 votes

A very bad champion wouldn't be even picked on pro play, not even once as it happens to the actual bad champions.

However, I dont have a hate boner for Aa trust me, I wish he ends up as reworked Irelia: a champ that right now it's average on soloQ and played time to time on pro play.

Reverting Aa nerfs just like that would make him busted again, he needs a major tweak, I dont know if what they are going to do is going to make him easier to balance, but sure it's a more creative try and has more chances than plain buffs or nerfs that wont ever fix his flawled design.

MavëríckMar 22, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QHvwUg3s,comment-id=000d000100000000,timestamp=2019-03-21T23:21:06.467+0000)

A very bad champion wouldn't be even picked on pro play, not even once as it happens to the actual bad champions.

However, I dont have a hate boner for Aa trust me, I wish he ends up as reworked Irelia: a champ that right now it's average on soloQ and played time to time on pro play.

Reverting Aa nerfs just like that would make him busted again, he needs a major tweak, I dont know if what they are going to do is going to make him easier to balance, but sure it's a more creative try and has more chances than plain buffs or nerfs that wont ever fix his flawled design.

Old Aatrox only became busted because the meta shifted around him and happened to favor him heavily. When New Aatrox hit the scene his Q damage was simply too high. All they had to do to tweak him and balance him was reduce the damage on that Q and leave everything else alone. Champions having mobility is clearly not an issue with Riot or less champions would have it.

People raged at Newtrox without thinking about what he had that was so OP. He was designed to fall off in the late game, but dominate early, and that's exactly what he did, but way too well. He was able to dominate early because of the insane damage on his Q, especially early. From what I recall it scaled pretty hard with modest AD as well. This allowed his E healing to leech off minions and monsters and he was oppressive.

What's the correct balance decision there?

To a sane person you'd simply reduce the scaling on his Q and try it out. Make him have to work harder for that early game advantage he NEEDS to claim to shut down his lane opponent. Still a bit too strong? Reduce the healing on his E by a couple percent. Make it so he can't just Q you and a chunk of your hp bar is gone. Make him have to commit to an assault or think twice.

This is what Riot SAID they wanted to do, and they succeeded, just they as usual went too far and now he's fucking garbage. To them the "correct" balancing move was removing his mobility, his damage, and his healing while also reducing his bases across the board... what. the fuck.

There was no compensation or reasoning beyond "We want Aatrox to not be played for awhile". They flat out said on twitter this was the intent. This just leads me to believe they are incompetent more than I already did.

Pros picking him up is one thing, they are truly good players with team coordination. If people would REALLY look at pro play Aatrox games right now they'd be able to see how useless he is in team fights. If enemy teams were smart they'd fucking ignore Aatrox and instead they cower at a champion that can't take even one of them past lane phase... it's sad. Nobody wants to acknowledge the evidence right in front of them and they say "Aatrox is fiiiiine". Cept he's not.

Hayaishi2Mar 21, 20192 votes

So Aatrox will be OP during ultimste and garbage without it.

BLIGHTBRINGERMar 21, 20194 votes

{quoted}

So Aatrox will be OP during ultimste and garbage without it.

Sigh

Guess I need to abuse Presence of Mind and Ultimate Hunter if this goes through.

Abibyama IIMar 21, 20191 votes

With the removed invulnerability you have room for buffs other abilities so he can be decent without ult

FSRERMar 21, 20192 votes

Ah, so he gets a free awakened dragon passive when he r's.....NO

Sire HippingtonMar 21, 20192 votes

wellcome to 100%ban if that goes through....

boricCentaur1Mar 21, 20191 votes

Please no it is too similar to other champions and why give him more healing he was nerfed for having too much healing and also it has less counter play compared to the one he has now.

BLIGHTBRINGERMar 21, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Please no it is too similar to other champions and why give him more healing he was nerfed for having too much healing and also it has less counter play compared to the one he has now.

His healing is what he is supposed to be best at, and that's something that should of never been nerfed in the first place.

Nerf damage or something, but healing is what defined Aatrox as a character.