5 Most Outdated Champions in Need of a Rework

xxxDogmanxxx·Jul 17, 2016·9 votes·3,069 views

All these champions have clunky, outdated, super-linear kits that make them very easy to predict. When itemization is broken, as was the case for the preseason and early season 6 Guinsoo's Rageblade, these champions become broken and subsequently get nerfed. When itemization is inevitably rebalanced, these champions become weak and neutered. As such, I believe they are the ones in most need of reworking.

Last Gameplay Update: 06/07/10
Last Gameplay Update: 07/25/11
Last Gameplay Update: 01/18/12
Last Gameplay Update: 07/18/12
Last Gameplay Update: 07/18/12

110 Comments

PaulieJul 17, 20167 votes

I think Yorick needs one the most

xxxDogmanxxxJul 17, 20164 votes

Yorick is actually confirmed next in line for a rework now.

RaeyxxJul 18, 20161 votes

Have they recently said that? (Not trying to be an ass. Genuinely curious.)

Because they've been promising a Yorick rework for ages.

TheThundersRoarJul 18, 20161 votes

https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/202294884-Champion-Update-Schedule

They frequently update this saying what they plan on updating next (for sure).

Yorick is up next, followed by the Assassin update and then Warwick.

RaeyxxJul 18, 20161 votes

Coolio. :D

foinhasJul 17, 20165 votes

In my opinion Blitzcrank needs a rework as well. Binary champion with ALL his power concentrated in one skill. It's a do-or-don't kind of champion. Either he hits is Q and gg, or he doens't and stay useless for 20 seconds

FioraWillCarryJul 17, 20163 votes

I like Kayle the way she is. I don't play any of the others though.

xxxDogmanxxxJul 17, 20162 votes

I actually think Kayle's the one in most need of a rework. She hasn't been updated since Season 1, in 2010.

kJsJul 17, 20162 votes

But it's not the last once that's not been updated it's the kit that is most relevant.

RabblerouserJul 17, 20163 votes

Kayle doesn't really need a rework. Evelynn does need one, though.

DemoGuideJul 17, 20163 votes

I actually find all of them fine, except evelynn. But i would like a rework on Nunu instead.

The Yetii RiderJul 17, 20161 votes

Nooo don't rework my main. He's perfect.

DemoGuideJul 17, 20161 votes

Any tips on how to use his ult properly?

P.S. Please also rate me http://matchhistory.ru.leagueoflegends.com/ru/#match-details/RU/103401732/200202627?tab=overview

The Yetii RiderJul 17, 20162 votes

Well, I can't read any of the relevant information.

Let's see. As far as your KDA goes, I recommend you read http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/onOJu2V1-a-one-trick-pony-tank-mains-guide-to-tanking-in-season-6

^this

You should not be dying nearly that often as Nunu unless you're losing the game. (Though of course I'm not certain if you won or lost because I can't read anything).

Runic Echoes is a TERRIBLE item on Nunu. Nunu's maximum health was lowered in Season 5 specifically because of his interaction between Cinderhulk and his Consume passive. If you aren't building Cinderhulk, you are gimping your own maximum health. NEVER build this item, it's terrible.

Righteous Glory is alright, but Rod of Ages is much better. The AP gives you a stronger heal, which is what you want.

Read the thread above for my suggested full build, but to put it here for anyone else who may be curious it's item 1401 item 3009 item 3027 item 3512 item 3065 item 3143

As for his ultimate, typically the most important time to channel Nunu's ultimate is 3 seconds before baron or dragon spawn, in their pit. You get a nice huge chunk of damage right as the dragon spawns so you can take it that much faster, and it's not like you were doing anything important for those three seconds anyway.

With Baron specifically it's VERY important, because you get to deal all that damage before the Baron's Gaze debuff is applied to you that halves all physical and magic damage you deal to Baron.

For team fights, generally you channel the ultimate when two people are directly next to you, usually while they're trying to get to someone else on your team. The damage is largely unimportant, but if everyone is out of your ult you cancel the channel as the last person leaves to get what little burst you can. The reason Nunu's ult is insane is the massive massive AOE slow. The damage is just gravy.

DemoGuideJul 17, 20161 votes

We actually won that game =D Early game was complete mess with me and darius feeding a lot, so i decided to build semi-support for Twitch to carry. Worked good.

I've played a couple of games with Nunu this season. Overall was pretty fun. I rarely play jungle, and i really think Nunu can take place as one of the fun junglers for me. I played One for All with my friends as nunu, and it was hilarious. This walking animation... and three of us ganking bot lane. Felt super good. But away with good memories. I want to ask you a few questions about Nunu.

What you said about Runic Echoes - does that mean that only Tank Nunu is viable right now?
I see you build blue smite. Does that really necessary for Nunu, because having wards felt super great (definitely better than on any support i main).
What order should I max my spells? I usually go for 2 points in Q, then max E, then Q again, then W.
What runes should I use? Currently i have 2 pages: Generalist AD - as,ad,armor, Mres/lvl; and Magicpen: 20 mpen, 9 armor. I used to take second page: after finishing Runic my damage to squishy targets with a single E was good, but as i said i was super squishy myself, and jungle start was not easy at all. Generalist ad page should work IMO for your all tank build, but maybe some specific runes could be better on him?

btw if me and my friends gonna group for next One for All, I think i'm gonna try AD nunu. Maybe i will convince my friends, and we all gonna run to our target and kill it with our autos. Animation - its just hilarious, cant resist the urge to do so =D

The Yetii RiderJul 18, 20162 votes

AP Nunu has never been viable. Trust me, I try to make it work every time I roll Nunu in ARAM.

The problem with Nunu is that while he has quite a bit of base health, his base armor isn't really that good, so surviving long enough to make use of 45% CDR Ice Balls is actually quite difficult if you build full AP.

Runic Echoes is just a bad item though. 60 AP is nothing to a champion that only has 2 AP ratios he cares about (and one of them isn't that high). The MS buff is offset because you didn't buy Boots of Swiftness with that build, should be close to the same move speed. The mana restore isn't relevant, and the burst passive isn't worth spending an entire item slot on. Meanwhile, every aspect of Cinderhulk (Damage over time, flat health, % bonus health) are relevant and valuable.

item 3711 is a good item, don't get me wrong. I use item 3706 because often times, an opponent will Flash away from me and force me to pop my Absolute Zero a second faster than I anticipated, and Chilling Smite finishes them off. I get many kills that way. To be honest, it's just to make up for Nunu's general lack of damage options at range.

Runes - I got these from Meteos's Mobafire Guide to Nunu jungle back in Season 5, they've always been good for me: Attack Speed Reds, Health/Level Yellows, Flat CDR Blues, % MS Quints.

AD Nunu - If you want to kill your opponent with autos, I actually suggest this build: item 1419 item 3091 item 3153 item 3006 item 3748 item 3083 . Attack speed is what you want to see with the hilarious auto animation, and Nunu's % Max Health on hit damage is a pretty good substitute for AD (It's also magic damage, so it deals more damage than straight AD against targets who don't build resistances, since their natural armor is just higher).

DemoGuideJul 18, 20161 votes

Next time I play normals i gonna try your full tank nunu build. Thanks a lot!

Critmaster GarenJul 17, 20163 votes

i kinda disagree on jax. at the most he needs some very minor changes. he has a simplistic kit, but he was actually balanced for two years, before he started dropping off.

number tune ups should probably be enough on its own.

tryndamere and eve are probably the ones on that list that need a total sion level rework.

BakedLotionJul 17, 20163 votes

You f Urgot me

D3m37r1Jul 17, 20163 votes

Jax is good. He just needs a VU. I agree with the rest.

ArakadiaJul 17, 20161 votes

Jax really needsa VU just like Cho. I mean a GU would be good but there are much worse contenders, he could be fixed in a class update with just a update to his passive and/or E.

Imagine if Cho'Gath was like a Hydra and for every stack he grew a head.

AtanchanJul 18, 20162 votes

I don't think Jax really needs his gameplay tweaked at all, although there might actually be some clunkiness I don't feel anymore because I'm so used to him. Cho could probably use minor tweaks to his abilities, though, mainly QoL-wise. Though at the same time, he's considered a hard-counter to combo-reliant casters and not much else, not to mention that most of his abilities either don't really feel fitting on a all-consuming giant or only fit kind of, so I could definitely see Cho'gath getting a fairly significant ( replacing an ability and / or majorly altering how his other abilities work while still keeping them recognizable ) gameplay update to make him more versatile.

Maybe even a Poppy-level gameplay update to really buckle down on the theme, but if that's the case I don't see him getting near the front of the queue anytime soon since he's neither broken by design, like Yorick, nor incredibly bland, like Taric.

cyntrinthJul 17, 20162 votes

I usually play as eve and honestly she's pretty terrible beginning game so I'd love to see what Riot could do with her

I QJul 17, 20161 votes

Riot is trying to take stealth out of the game, so if anything changes it would be that.

I know this because of past reworks changing invis and/or taking it out.

foinhasJul 17, 20162 votes

yeeeeeeees, they are...

wanna hear a funny story? In season 1 eve's stun on E was removed because it was considered too strong for stealth champs to have cc. A few years later we get Rengar, which has a FUCKING SNARE AND INVISIBILITY...

Riot doesn't want stealth to go away, they just don't want eve to gain anything from it...

AsudurgaJul 17, 20162 votes

Irelia

LBB412Jul 17, 20162 votes

All Eve really needs is like a 0.25 or 0.5 second stun added to her ult

ZedexJul 17, 20162 votes

Kayle and Xin are so binary and as a result I feel are crap on purpose because of how strong they are when they're really good. They need some fine tuning for sure to give them clear strengths and weaknesses, like the Ryze update.

VlädïmïrJul 17, 20162 votes

Instead of reworking Jax, who still functions fine and isn't a toxic mess, rework Nocturne to keep up with the direction of the game.

His Q and ult are very cool thematically (thought they may need 'reimaginings'), but the W and E were built for how League was in the past. They can't keep up with the state of the game now and need to be redone entirely.

ShyvauniJul 18, 20162 votes

Shyvana and Sejuani suffer from getting nerfed due to items and then having items rebalanced more than those 5 do...

xxxDogmanxxxJul 19, 20161 votes

While I agree that Shyvana and Sejuani do suffer similarly to these champions, I believe these champions actually have it worse. Some of these champions got nerfed heavily due to the synergy of Devourer-Rageblade. Only for Devourer-Rageblade to be utterly destroyed and these champion left in the dust.

For example, Xin Zhao had a 53% win rate before patch 6.4, where he got heavily nerfed due to his synergy with the Devourer-Rageblade combo. They took away 20% of his attack speed and approximately 43% of his healing. And then in patch 6.9, they rebalanced Guinsoo's Rageblade to become extremely expensive and inferior to the former Rageblade, and then replaced Devourer with the also inferior Bloodrazor. As a result of those nerfs, Xin Zhao's win rate plummeted to 46% in patch 6.4, and plummeted even further to 41% in patch 6.9. Xin Zhao's win rate plummeted THIRTEEN PERCENT over the course of five patches.

It's not just Xin Zhao, all these champions fell down in win rates quite heavily this season. Drastic win rate drops like this are often indicators that a champion is fundamentally broken in some way. Plus, these champions have been waiting quite a bit longer for reworks, at least according to Riot's official champion update list.

ShyvauniJul 20, 20161 votes

Sejuani and Shyvana had thevwxact same thing occur with cinderhulk.

Also Shyvana got nerfs cus of devourer and guinsoo's as well. And like Xin zhao has never been reworked.

xxxDogmanxxxJul 20, 20161 votes

The Bami's Cinder line of items all got buffed this season, Cinderhulk included, and Shyvana didn't typically build Guinsoo's.

ShyvauniJul 20, 20161 votes

the buff to the bami line was not a rever to what it used to be and Shyvana still was affected when they did that. Also Yes she did build guinsoos in jungle for a good while.

Blue Moon WolfJul 17, 20161 votes

Amumu

xxxDogmanxxxJul 17, 20161 votes

Amumu seems to actually be in a good spot. He has an easy to hit skillshot and lots of cc. He can contribute lots to a team even when behind, and when he's ahead he becomes this unkillable raid boss type champion. Tanks in general don't rely too heavily on itemization, so I think Amumu doesn't quite need a rework.

Blue Moon WolfJul 17, 20162 votes

It's just that it seems like they don't give champs VU's anymore without a rework. He might be fine kit wise, but that model probably hasn't changed since his release (or at least feels like it). I don't even know if he got the texture update many other older champs got.

Friendly RamJul 17, 20161 votes

My list would be Eve Nunu Tryd Lissandra. Talon

Nathan078Jul 19, 20161 votes

Lissandra in need of a rework? How/Why?

Communist ToastJul 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}

All these champions have clunky, outdated, super-linear kits that make them very easy to predict. When itemization is broken, as was the case for the preseason and early season 6 Guinsoo's Rageblade, these champions become broken and subsequently get nerfed. When itemization is inevitably rebalanced, these champions become weak and neutered. As such, I believe they are the ones in most need of reworking.

Last Gameplay Update: 06/07/10

Last Gameplay Update: 07/25/11

Last Gameplay Update: 01/18/12

Last Gameplay Update: 07/18/12

Last Gameplay Update: 07/18/12

how can you make this post without Yorick on the list? (although he is getting an update pretty soon) Teemo also hasn't had one in ages

LuggJul 18, 20161 votes

Teemo got a minor rework not long ago.

Communist ToastJul 19, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Teemo got a minor rework not long ago.

they changed his shrooms, that wasn't really a rework.

xxxDogmanxxxJul 19, 20161 votes

Yorick is confirmed as next in line for a rework.

Communist ToastJul 19, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yorick is confirmed as next in line for a rework.

I mean, it's exactly what I said...

PoskeJul 18, 20161 votes

Where the fk did you get this info?

Literally all 5 champions you listed were changed after the dates you mentioned

xxxDogmanxxxJul 18, 20161 votes

"Where the fk did you get this info?

Literally all 5 champions you listed were changed after the dates you mentioned"

I got it off the official site.

https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/202294884-Champion-Update-Schedule

So I would appreciate it if you don't cuss me out from now on. They may have been nerfed or buffed, but their gameplays haven't been updated since those dates.

TrustN0ONEJul 18, 20161 votes

Where's Swain?

xxxDogmanxxxJul 19, 20161 votes

Swain was reworked quite recently. Patch 6.9, during the midseason mage update. We should likely wait at least another half-season before tastefully asking for another Swain rework.