Because pre-rework, that was a position he often fell into. And if you guys are keeping his execute Ult in spite of reverting his W back to its old form that'll hammer home 'Jinx, but shitty' that much harder.
So what's the plan?
Is there a plan?
Or is Kog going to be cast back into Jinx' shadow again?
Nahui1 votesHope so. When he's strong he's simply unfair and ruins games.
Rebonack2 votesHope so. When he's strong he's simply unfair and ruins games.
All champions are 'unfair' when they're over-tuned compared to the rest of their class. That isn't something unique to Kog.
Nahui1 votesButs it far more oppressive in ways that other overturned ones aren't.
Rebonack2 votesButs it far more oppressive in ways that other overturned ones aren't.
Isn't that the whole point of remakes, to set alter a champion so they CAN be balanced without being unhealthy when they're too strong?
That's what I'm calling Riot out on here. 'Hey guys, don't fuck up Kog again'.
Nahui1 votesThey are. You're right, it didn't work. However riot admits the old Kog actually wasn't bad. They reworked him to revitalize play rates since old Kog couldn't be bugged without going wild. They can't really fuck Kog up again because it's going back to a non fucked version minus the viable AP build due to ult staying, which is fine. That's not kog's intended play style so it doesn't really count towards balance Status.
They want a late game machine gunner fortified by a team. Right now we have a early-mid machine gunner fortified by a support and melting anyone.
ABSINTHEged1 votesSo for context, before the update I was a Kog'Maw main. I LOVE the old TF snipe maw gameplay. Mid was my secondary and I used Aquadragon's AP kog build to great success. I also spent a ton of time in season 5 playing Jinx. I'm familiar with you, we've talked on the boards and I really like a lot of the ideas you've had for Kog in the past.
That being said? I can honestly understand why they don't want old AP kog back. Especially with the new Rylai's (toxic AF.) It's not that people can't dodge his ult. It's not that it's even hard to dodge. It's not the range. It's the consistency.
Sure there are other artilery mages, but none of them can sit at 1800 range and consistently deal damage without ever walking into range of the fight. Kog, built full Mana regen and magic pen, used to be able to out-DPS a Xerath without ever being in harms way. At least Xerath has to be in range to use his eye of destruction. And to hit Kog'Maw levels of range? He has to use a high cool-down ult and becomes immobile while using it.
Old Kog had a theoretical higher damage output if he did the whole mid-range magician thing and actually utilized his void ooze, but a lot of the time the range and safety was just plain worth it.
That being said? AD Kog's old ult is the only thing that kept him alive in lane post 6. They will HAVE to find some way to compensate him for that massive of a Nerf. They'll need to do it in a way that affects his lane.
Kog in season 5 used to out DPS jinx vs a team with multiple tanks by a longshot late game if you could keep him alive. The trade-off was the up time of the damage and the reliability of the range.
I'm not really sure how to make him a competitive alternative to Jinx, but that may just be built into the identity of a Glass Cannon like Kog.
I don't think his old ult was Toxic for AD Kog in the slightest.
My last thought is, in order for him to fulfill his full dream of a, "Protect the Kog'Maw," team comp level carry, he should be really difficult to play with an uncoordinated team. If you don't one trick him it should probably be quite hard to pull off. Jinx should never be that. She's a beginner's late game ADC hyper-carry. Kog SHOULD be an ADC positioning stat-check and be punished hard for failing.
Rebonack1 votes{quoted} My last thought is, in order for him to fulfill his full dream of a, "Protect the Kog'Maw," team comp level carry, he should be really difficult to play with an uncoordinated team. If you don't one trick him it should probably be quite hard to pull off. Jinx should never be that. She's a beginner's late game ADC hyper-carry. Kog SHOULD be an ADC positioning stat-check and be punished hard for failing.
One thing that I'm not sure if Riot has really grasped yet is that if an ADC is going to be a hyper-carry, their damage MUST be reliable. Or at least the lion's share of it has to be reliable. Kog's old Ult (even with AD Kog) was a pretty hefty chunk of his damage. Being able to poke from long range was what kept him in the running. Because yes, he does out DPS Jinx. But when you compare him to Twitch or Vayne? Not even close.
Now that we know AP Kog is gone for good (I'm sad about it, but I can understand the reasoning even if I don't fully agree) I'm almost inclined to say that Riot should just give Kog a new Ult altogether. Maintaining it as Trinity fodder strikes me as a good idea, but it should probably be turned into something that meshes better with Kog's kit if artillery Kog is dead.
ABSINTHEged1 votesAP kog is still semi alive. And I think that's the problem. You can still play him quite effectively by roaming in and out of the mid-range magician positioning. Rylai's is really what holds that together. There's something magical about penning down even something like Ezreal with ult after ult and a 40% slow. But he's not where he will be playable in competitive. He's a fun gimmick in solo queue.
While I hate to see him go (I really do), if they're going to kill AP Kog maybe they should just pull the plug for real and revert to the old ult for AD kog, convert the ult to AD, and compensate with a bit of extra damage early in it in lane (because the enemy marksman will have Armor seals.)