So what Keystone mastery will Olaf junglers take now?

Oglaf·Nov 3, 2016·6 votes·3,284 views

I was thinking "Oh easy, I'll just pick the new one!" only to realize Olaf can't trigger it at all...

I guess we're pigeon-holed into picking Grasp now?

61 Comments

Malicious MetalNov 3, 20162 votes

Jep, as are many other Juggernauts and tanky junglers.

Sucks, huh?

Chamuel85Nov 3, 20161 votes

I think most tanky junglers have a hard CC. I'm thinking about it and I believe that Olaf is an exception in that case. Depending on how knock ups, pulls, and such. Trundle's pillar MIGHT count. If the knockback on Shyvana's ult counts. I agree with why they removed SoA, but I'm not sure how I feel about adding this one. I like it but it feels like it may have left some champions wanting a keystone. Olaf might pick up Ferver for all that Free AD.

RalanrNov 3, 20161 votes

Not really. Tanky junglers can range from tanks, juggernauts, to even Elise because of how she builds.

So tanky junglers without hard CC aren't really uncommon enough to be an exception.

Chamuel85Nov 3, 20161 votes

Which tanky junglers don't have hard CC besides Olaf? Also Elise has hard cc

I'm just checking champion.gg

And the only people who are tanky jg but don't really have hard CC are: DrMundo .9% play Mordekaiser .14% play Nunu 7% play Olaf 8% play rate.

4 junglers still seems uncommon enough.

RalanrNov 3, 20161 votes

Well I'm willing to admit I'm wrong.

Chamuel85Nov 3, 20161 votes

I mean I'm thinking about it... Looking at that play rate. It's almost 20% right? Is that uncommon? Nunu and Olaf making the biggest amount of it, but.

TalisidNov 4, 20161 votes

I play quite a bit of Mundo Jungle. Losing SotA will suck and he's also losing Oppressor in the same update. I'll probably drop him as a jungler pick next season. He's already a bit questionable. Strong mid-game that you can snowball off of but if that fails not really much ability to carry.

Chamuel85Nov 4, 20161 votes

You do gain up to 5% bonus dmg when in combat with champions though. That might make up for it. Also double edged sword is about 2% more damage.

EDIT: So maybe you can still play your Mundo. :D

EndlessSorcererNov 3, 20161 votes

Some of them don't. DrMundo Nunu

I think Grasp of the Undying will be the only viable option for them considering Bond of Stone still sucks.

RalanrNov 3, 20163 votes

Why is bond still in this game?! It feels like an uninteractive or at least unnoticeable keystone and it's only going to make Vow too strong.

Chamuel85Nov 3, 20161 votes

Bond of Stone was the only thing Resolve Tree Supports could take (I GUESS Trundle support takes grasp but...). With the introduction of Colossus, Bond of Stone loses a lot of its appeal now I think. I agree entirely though. It's unintuitive, and rather 'blah'. It doesn't feel like you're doing anything, but periodically you get an indicator on your screen pointing to an ally telling you where you're getting damaged from. if it helps, they're both support things. and supports probably won't be able to rush Vow every time, and they can't afford too many items. it might not be a problem.

RalanrNov 3, 20161 votes

Idk. I feel like marksmen with a Vow tank support will never die.

Like imagine Vayne Alistair bot with these items. They may be impossible to kill without even needing Bond. Tank supports can just take CoC.

Chamuel85Nov 3, 20161 votes

I think that by the time the support can afford Knight's Vow. Laning will probably be over already. If not, then yeah, it's going to be a pain in the butt.

OglafNov 3, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Bond of Stone was the only thing Resolve Tree Supports could take (I GUESS Trundle support takes grasp but...). With the introduction of Colossus, Bond of Stone loses a lot of its appeal now I think. I agree entirely though. It's unintuitive, and rather 'blah'. It doesn't feel like you're doing anything, but periodically you get an indicator on your screen pointing to an ally telling you where you're getting damaged from. if it helps, they're both support things. and supports probably won't be able to rush Vow every time, and they can't afford too many items. it might not be a problem.

Actually, Support items are becoming cheaper in general in the season patch, so they'll have more gold to play around with.

Chamuel85Nov 3, 20161 votes

They are, but a lot of the support items are either losing HP or are items that already had no HP. I'm not sure that you'll always be able to get Knight's Vow first. I agree. It'll make laning pretty hard if they get it. I'll wait to try it out.

OglafNov 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

They are, but a lot of the support items are either losing HP or are items that already had no HP. I'm not sure that you'll always be able to get Knight's Vow first. I agree. It'll make laning pretty hard if they get it. I'll wait to try it out.

The removal of the MR aura on Aegis makes me cry every time... [zombie-nunu-tears]

Chamuel85Nov 3, 20161 votes

Yeah, as a support, I'm already down a lot of HP compared to others (levels + items usually). Kind of sad. Sure, Locket has a way bigger shield, but if you build Banner, you kind of out on HP. Plus as an active, it's not as good imo as HP on the item for yourself.

Tychusfindlay919Nov 3, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q6dzUTsY,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-11-03T14:06:46.875+0000)

Jep, as are many other Juggernauts and tanky junglers.

Sucks, huh?

Darius juggernaut privilege lul

Malicious MetalNov 3, 20162 votes

It kinda triggers me that Darius' the only Juggernaut from the update that's in a better spot and actually a competitive pick.

Tychusfindlay919Nov 3, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q6dzUTsY,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2016-11-03T14:30:02.006+0000)

It kinda triggers me that Darius' the only Juggernaut from the update that's in a better spot and actually a competitive pick.

Darius is not competitive. The only competitive juggernauts are olaf and trundle.

Darius ate a nasty Q nerf that killed some of his matchups in pro play. Overall he is still definitely in a better spot than pre rework though.

RalanrNov 3, 20161 votes

Darius and Voli are probably the only juggernauts that can proc CoC. Whether it is good on them is a different story (Volibear is a probably, Darius is unlikely).

EndlessSorcererNov 3, 20162 votes

I would say that it will be taken on Volibear for lack of other options (though god forbid you get kited during your Q).

Darius will probably take Fervor of Battle, Stormraider's Surge or Grasp of the Undying.

Tychusfindlay919Nov 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Darius and Voli are probably the only juggernauts that can proc CoC. Whether it is good on them is a different story (Volibear is a probably, Darius is unlikely).

Darius would love it, he wants to get in the middle of everyone for those Qs anyways.

RalanrNov 3, 20161 votes

Except his E is what he needs to proc it. His sustain from Q is enough that he doesn't need to pull a bunch of people.

Tychusfindlay919Nov 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Except his E is what he needs to proc it. His sustain from Q is enough that he doesn't need to pull a bunch of people.

His E gets increasingly used later in the game to set up Qs in the first place.

I already take summoner 6 summoner 4 and a couple other d mains are hopping on that train, I'm not too worried about being able to get into the enemy team or not.

DeathBurstNov 3, 20161 votes

Yeah, but do you really need yet another shield on top of all your healing?

IMHO, Stormraider seems like the best fit in isolation, except I don't want to go deep into the Cunning Tree. No Keystone looks very attractive in Resolve, but the Tiers 5 is great. It's hard to choose. And let's not forget the new Fervor that is much better for Darius with raw AD instead of on-hit. But 12 points in Resolve (if you go 18 in Ferocity for Fervor) is under-whelming.

Tychusfindlay919Nov 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, but do you really need yet another shield on top of all your healing?

IMHO, Stormraider seems like the best fit in isolation, except I don't want to go deep into the Cunning Tree. No Keystone looks very attractive in Resolve, but the Tiers 5 is great. It's hard to choose. And let's not forget the new Fervor that is much better for Darius with raw AD instead of on-hit. But 12 points in Resolve (if you go 18 in Ferocity for Fervor) is under-whelming.

Why not? The shield allows darius to fight longer. Everyone knows what happens if they allow darius to fight for too long.

Hint hint he turns red.

The Yetii RiderNov 3, 20161 votes

Shyvana, Udyr, Trundle all can as well (if Trundle hits his pillar right on someone it displaces them).

RalanrNov 3, 20161 votes

Isn't Shyvanna's ult knock back still 50/50?

Udyr I can see using it, but I feel Trundle wouldn't make good use at all with only his pillar.

Meep ManNov 3, 20162 votes

Maybe Warlord's or Stormraider's Surge

OglafNov 3, 20162 votes

I know for certain that Lee Sin will love the new mastery though: those dangerous "dash into the enemy mob and kick the ADC/Midlaner into your team" won't be as dangerous as it will trigger the most powerful shield possible...

As if Lee needed to become an even more viable jungle pick than he already is...!

RalanrNov 3, 20161 votes

... FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUU-

ArnoldSchwarzensNov 4, 20161 votes

He won't have a way to proc it outside of his ult though, I wouldn't say that's worth it.

TalisidNov 4, 20161 votes

Well maxed out ulti with 40% CDR is a 36s cooldown which lines up pretty well with Courage.

It won't do much for him in the early game though.

ZelorxonNov 3, 20162 votes

Mmmmh, let's see...

-Olaf gains 1% bonus attack speed for every 1% missing health. WOW ,looks like at 50% hp i'll have 50% attack speed, i guess what could back it up...

-PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 70 / 115 / 160 / 205 / 250 (+ 100% bonus AD) WOAH, IF I ONLY COULD HAVE ATTACK DAMAGE WITHOUT SACRIFICING ITEM SLOTS, that would be sooooo nice!

-BONUS ATTACK SPEED: 40 / 50 / 60 / 70 / 80% WOOOO, more attack speed?

-TRUE DAMAGE: 70 / 115 / 160 / 205 / 250 (+ 40% AD) WHAT THE FUCK? LESS THAN HALF OF MY ATTACK DAMAGE AS TRUE DAMAGE THAT REDUCES ITS COOLDOWN IF I KEEP AUTOING?

mmmh...

I guess i'll go thunderlords, you know, for the damage.

Sahn UzalNov 3, 20161 votes

Fervor or Warlords will probably be his way-to-go. Fervor, when stacked, will also empower Olaf's Q and E's now. Warlords synergises with Olaf's passive very well. It might change up his itemisation a bit. I could easily see Black Cleaver becomming a must-have, while Olaf currently just goes full tank (When Jungleing atleast.)

OglafNov 3, 20167 votes

Warlord's might synergise with his passive, but notice how it only works against enemy Champions.

The whole reason why SoTA was picked at all wasn't necessarily what it did, but the fact that it is/was the only Keystone that had any kind of interaction with jungle creeps whatsoever.

Chamuel85Nov 3, 20161 votes

I mean... Technically Bond of stone will reduce damage you take from Monsters by 4% still.

OglafNov 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I mean... Technically Bond of stone will reduce damage you take from Monsters by 4% still.

Does it? I **think **it might only work against enemy Champions.

EDIT: It mentions the damage absorption from an ally only works with damage they take from enemy Champions; nothing about the raw damage reduction so you're probably right...

Chamuel85Nov 3, 20161 votes

SUPER nit picky I know, but I don't think Bond of Stone is a worthy alternative for Olaf to pick up now. Maybe WHO KNOWS! 4% damage reduction is still a % increase in effective health (not 300 hp but). Not sure how well it'll work in a team fight. taking damage for allies will help keep you lower so you attack faster and heal more. Sounds useful. The numbers probably aren't there though.

N PelosiNov 3, 20161 votes

I'll just take Windseeker blessing in protest.

warpenguin555Nov 3, 20161 votes

Either Grasp or Storm raiders I guess

TheIronRevenantNov 3, 20161 votes

Same with Skarner item 3070

ArnoldSchwarzensNov 4, 20161 votes

Colossus should still proc on ult and the E auto combo. But still, SotA is probably better than any other Keystone ever will be on him.

TheIronRevenantNov 4, 20161 votes

Ya Skarner really needs the hp from it since he's not the tankiest till late

ArnoldSchwarzensNov 4, 20161 votes

I'd go for the new Fervor, now that it gives you extra AD instead of on-hit. Since you're so tanky you stack it up rather easily and your Q and E have pretty good AD ratios.

TheHurricaneGamrNov 4, 20161 votes

For some reason, I feel like either fervor of Bloodlust would benefit Olaf greatly, but I don't play him, so who knows.

Big LincolnNov 4, 20161 votes

i like oglaf too

OglafNov 4, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q6dzUTsY,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2016-11-04T12:42:58.956+0000)

i like oglaf too

....ssshhh! Don't make people Google my username and get me banned for NSFW stuff!

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

ValexforNov 4, 20161 votes

Maybe they should make warlord work on monsters too with 50% effectiveness like it does on minions since it makes really no sense that junglers can't use it especially now that SotA is out of commission... maybe they don't want early game junglers to be too strong with the free sustain, but then we should question about SotA too in the first place then... actuallt would it seriously change that much compared to the extra health you got from SotA? Maybe someone good at math and at the jungle could do some general math on a kit with no self sustain (champs with sustain already top the jungle mostly full hp anyway, so I think that it would actually be worse than SotA on them since they would get pretty much no extra sustain from it by simply being nearly full health all the time)?.