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Why does it feel like riots changed their mind about RNG?

hi ìm groot··88 votes·16,223 views

Yet another RNG element is about to be thrown into league, which river the crab spawns in. I can't say how impactful which side it spawns on will be, but I can say its yet another unnecessary addition of something I thought league wanted to avoid because its an element that you cannot plan around. And it really goes to the same problem the elemental dragons presented. If you go nunu/shyv/warwick into a game where the first dragon is one that synergizes with your team, you got an RNG advantage.

Now this dumb crab is going to RNG decide which side of the map the jungle should be playing around during the period normally a first gank would occur, and both sides will know where it is. This means if you happen to have a stronger side on the map due to champ picks you COULD NOT HAVE PLANNED FOR, you have an advantage.

To give an example, lets say the two mid laners are about even in pressure early game, but your bot is cait braum against some scaling play back bot laners, but your top is a nasus vs riven. Who the scuttler goes to will basically be decided by a coin flip, because one of those two lanes will not support a fight.

As I said in a previous post about the dragons, the RNG elements they're adding aren't anything major YET, but the direction is just negligent. Who actually wants this kind of stuff in the main game mode that is suppose to be competitive? You shouldn't be giving advantages of any kind based off RNG, crits kind of still around and tolerated because its just been here, but why add more? Do shit like this in seperate game modes that aren't considered competitive, and make them like mario party fun games for all I care. I don't want to see any advantage in my games be determined by a coin flip.

28 Comments

TS Media51 votes

It feels that way because the people who imposed those rules in the first place are no longer in charge. How I wish we could get back the good devs.

Nymzo35 votes

When a MOBA has more RNG than Fire Emblem, I think we have a problem.

Doozku1 votes

Hello Dota?

inplane1 votes

{quoted}

When a MOBA has more RNG than Fire Emblem, I think we have a problem.

Even Fire Emblem Heroes has more strategy and planning involved compared to LoL right now. And it's a fucking mobile, gacha game.

rtbf22165141217 votes

Forget the fact it snowballs the game indirectly.

Clearly what people want is more snowball games.

Kappa

Boulderox13 votes

the reason i gave up playing, but poke around to see what dumb crap they pull out of their hat to add to the "i don't know how to balance my game anymore" book. they want to make the jungle play differently so lets make it so only top tier dueling champs have any chance to have huge advantages that make snowball soooo much easier now...

The Spicy Crit3 votes

{quoted}

the reason i gave up playing, but poke around to see what dumb crap they pull out of their hat to add to the "i don't know how to balance my game anymore" book. they want to make the jungle play differently so lets make it so only top tier dueling champs have any chance to have huge advantages that make snowball soooo much easier now...

Exactly my situation. And i'm glad that i gave up playing. I have been literally spending 26 hours consecutively playing League of Legends last summer, things were not perfect, not even near good, but it's been tremendously better than now. New level system, new runes, new this, new that. Seriously, i don't know who comes up with OP, unnecessary and rather stupid things like these in season 8.

Teridax687 votes

Indeed, it does feel like Riot's perception of RNG has shifted over time, and so likely because it's now being seen as this diversity generator in a game that has long suffered from stagnancy. However, I don't think randomness is the way to go, and I feel relying on it to create variation in games only further ignores the real problem, which is that the metagame in League is incredibly restrictive and repetitive. Looking at this change, I'm even less convinced that Riot will meaningfully change bot lane in the future, because the core intent of the bot lane changes is to introduce diversity to team compositions. I don't really see confidence in the ability for this to radically change the meta when we're also being given more random jungle objectives, as well as a new Ranked model next season that fundamentally relies on a rigid 1-1-1-2 team setup. I hope to be wrong, but if the bot lane changes really do revolutionize team comps, I don't really see the need to force diversity through a jungle change that seems both more RNG-dependent and more snowbally.

To me, I think RNG is useful only in games that lack the systems to generate rich and complex gameplay on their own. In pen-and-paper RPGs like DnD, random dice rolls are perfect, because pretty much all the variables are otherwise known to the players and can be easily processed, so if the game were perfectly deterministic, it would become entirely predictable and lacking in variety. In card games, randomness is necessary for many of the same reasons: if there were a non-random algorithm to everything, one could perfectly predict every outcome and exploit that knowledge, which would cause most card games to fall flat.

However, these games are extremely simple, using a very basic medium and, at best, the power of human processing in order to generate gameplay. By contrast, a video game like League is vastly complex: there are a lot of known variables and systems, but it's generally impossible to process them all perfectly in real-time, and on top of that, the existence of an opposing team of players means there's no real way of knowing what they're going to do either. There is a vast number of actions and decisions one can take at any given moment, so if games are so repetitive and predictable as to become boring, then that is a problem with the game presenting too few valid options, rather than one of the game needing randomness.

At the end of the day, RNG works purely to generate a certain set of outcomes, so whatever can be created then, can usually be done better by a system designed by people who properly understand what the most interesting outcomes are, and who push for those, rather than the many negative outcomes that tend to come out of a random system. Because of this, I'd rather Riot asked themselves what exactly is the gameplay they're trying to create with this kind of randomness, and find a non-random way to achieve it, instead of having more randomness in League just for randomness's sake.

Marothennan5 votes

Some people get stupid with age, looks like it happens to some companies too

kargish1 votes

Possibly because it's not the same people that runs said company anymore

Marothennan3 votes

Yeah that's why I said some companies. Because I didn't want to talk shit about the old designers.

YuGiHo5 votes

its not even that rng, its a basic coin flip and it will alert every one in the game what side it will spawn on well before it spawns.

Anatera3 votes

Don't feel too bad. Riot doesn't understand the changes either.

Snowman Arc2 votes

You made a very good point about lane priority. This will probably enforce a meta of strong early game laning champions that have control and priority. Again, even more favoritism towards early game meaning faster snowballs.

Dasdi962 votes

Meanwhile later fights are still decided by whichever adcs gets better crit rng.

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

Late fights, ADC's generally have enough crit chance that RNG doesn't really matter. Unless we're doing a 1v1 quick-draw thing. . .

FlameadoDeKoorvo1 votes

{quoted}

Meanwhile later fights are still decided by whichever adcs gets better crit rng.

top lane vs trynda and bot lane ADC battle feels like lottery right now

Xonra2 votes

It just feels like the newer people working on the game don't understand balance and are just trying to look busy at work, so they feel they have to do "something" for the sake of doing it. They come in with these clear goals stated, sounds great, then they throw out ideas that make me go "this literally won't even accomplish the goals you set. What are you doing?".

This is what happens when you have newer people coming in that just feels they have to prove themselves (or maybe Riot has too high of expectations and they DO have to prove themselves). They come up with half-baked crap like this.

DW Diana1 votes

Personally I see it as a Honey Trap. People will run for it thinking it's so important, missing their camps along the way just to get the scuttle, and leave me free to invade the other side of their jungle and pick up 2 camps for free. Or they will go for a methodical clear without prioritizing the scuttle allowing me to path towards it and pick it up at a time convenient to me. Already I see people starting their blue, grabbing gromp then going to scuttle. They don't realise their mistake until they find their raptors and Red/Krugs gone, at which point I'm happy back in my blue side cleaning up, hitting 5, with a boatload of gold to spend.

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

Already I see people starting their blue, grabbing gromp then going to scuttle. They don't realise their mistake until they find their raptors and Red/Krugs gone

That's fine. During that time, I stole your red, raptors, my blue, gromp, wolves, scuttle, ganked bot twice, and recalled. XD

https://image.prntscr.com/image/7aUUni6uQDmvpMjOLvl2xg.jpg

######(Disclaimer: I stopped playing SR a long time ago.)

DW Diana1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q5GoHfE1,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2018-04-29T23:32:57.004+0000)

That's fine. During that time, I stole your red, raptors, my blue, gromp, wolves, scuttle, ganked bot twice, and recalled. XD

https://image.prntscr.com/image/7aUUni6uQDmvpMjOLvl2xg.jpg

######(Disclaimer: I stopped playing SR a long time ago.)

Actually Ivern is a perfect example.

I played against one yesterday with my nocturne. I started Blue, he invaded my red (which was warded ofc) then ganked top for first blood. I went straight from my blue to his red, then raptors, then cleared the rest of my jungle while he tried desperately to find a camp that was still up. I was level 5 when he was level 3, invaded his bot side (obviously where he would end up) and killed him, He's now 3 and I'm 6. Clear up his wolves before getting bot lane colapse on me with a tp from top so ult the midlaner, get a kill and walk straight to his raptors, then onto mine.

A good jungler will learn to invade when being invaded, mitigate their own loses while maximising on their opportunities. Pathing, warding, and map awareness are all massive parts of being a jungler, and I don't see these changes making any difference to this.

Ahri Body Pillow1 votes

I don't know, I kinda feel like this type of RNG forces your strategies to evolve. Crit RNG feels like shit bc theres no way to deal with it.

Saianna1 votes

I'm looking forward to all mage/slow-junglers quitting the game lol

Eranell1 votes

[{quoted}](name=hi ìm groot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q5GoHfE1,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-04-28T23:58:18.358+0000)

You shouldn't be giving advantages of any kind based off RNG, crits kind of still around and tolerated because its just been here, but why add more?

And here I though I was the only one who thinks crit still being around is a problem... Or at least a nuisance.

But yeah, the anounced jungle changes are horrible. I actually think that, if they come through, people start to find out with which champions you can effectively gank at lvl 2 if one buff camp even still gives you 1 entire lvl. Prepare for more jungle Twitch, yay...

Mokuto Bunshi1 votes

I think they realized that normal play has elements that spice things up in people making changes. In LCS there are no changes everyone does the best thing available and are deadly good at it so they need something to spice it up, so RNG. Which norm games dont need and jut makes thing more reliant on chance than skill for us NON-pro players. I don't mind plants too much but cant stand the dragon change still.

FakeGravity1 votes

they mention you get information of where the crab with spam before hand, i expect the lane swap meta comeback if scuttle spawns top, bot lane just move top to contest it with the jungler maybe?

Fawksea1 votes

i feel kinda bad for the kindred mains

SnowLeopard911 votes

I remember when Ninja Tabi gave 10% dodge chance. Entire games were decided on that RNG to hit Jax.

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