Man, it is fun to get out-traded by Orianna at every stage of the game

Fisher No Chains·Jun 30, 2017·17 votes·1,234 views

Weak early for insane late? Nope, just press E for shield + bonus resistances, press Q W and aa once to win every trade because you have both damage and utility so why not.

Really, why is Orianna allowed to be good at every stage of the game when other champs aren't? Why is Orianna able to win a trade early game, when she's supposed to be weaker, against every champion? Can we revert the Q mana cost buff or something? I'm honestly tired of seeing her spam Q at lv 1 without considering her mana pool at all. Also, why are other utility mages nerfed either damage-wise or utility-wise whereas Orianna remains an "utility burst mage" with little to no tradeoff?

46 Comments

NoobTangerangJul 1, 20173 votes

She's been like this for a while now in diamond and it's fucking annoying lol.

Fisher No ChainsJul 1, 20171 votes

If Kassadin wasn't op (and also hard counters my champ pool) I, as a midlane main, would ban Orianna 24/7. Not a single champ makes laning phase so annoying except for Yasuo or LeBlanc.

All you have to do is farm/survive ganks because even if you want to trade you either: 1) get a decent trade with both of you at half hp (if she misplays), 2) end up losing the trade because she takes less damage thanks to E and also deals shit ton of damage thanks to her combos+passive.

I mean, she's also a pretty popular pick (around 19% playrate in plat+) and her winrate never drops below 50%. I would really like some changes about her early game power considering how game changing her late game is.

TelosenJul 1, 20171 votes

I try to ban her or ahri since they're the only mages in the game now.

Why the fuck does Ori do bonus magic on her autos by the way? It's just so tacked on and it's just preposterously strong against virtually any opponent especially melee champions, and it means she CS's super easy. Everything about her lane phase is easy.

Anu3isIIJul 1, 20171 votes

Her base Attack Damage is extremely low to compensate for her passive.

FantasySniperJul 1, 20172 votes

Because her damage range is only 825, while every other mage has like 900+.

Fisher No ChainsJul 1, 20171 votes

Can you please list those champions with 900+ range? I'm pretty sure they're the minority.

Also, this range excuse makes no sense. Other mages have reasonable mana costs and CDs too.

FantasySniperJul 1, 20171 votes

Swain Nevermove Velkoz Plasma Fission, Void Rift, LFDR Veigar Baleful Strike, Dark Matter Sear, Pillar of Flame Morgana Dark Binding, Tormented Soil Taliyah Threaded Volley, Seismic Shove TwistedFate Wild Cards Malzahar Call of the Void Lux All Abilities Xerath All Abilities Zilean Time Bomb Ziggs Bouncing Bomb, Hexplosive Minefield, MIB

A couple of others technically count, but those spells are either especially easy to avoid at such a range or are worth more as CC. Several other spells have 850 or 875. Also, this is all without considering less mage-like champions such as Cho'Gath or who have similar range.

sit kidJun 30, 20171 votes

The Q change was something that really bothered me too

I dont get why champions like ori, viktor, jhin ect. should have low effort anti melee abilities that cost like 40 mana early game

Fisher No ChainsJul 1, 20171 votes

Ori Q isn't really an anti melee ability, but I agree that 30/35/40/45/50 is a ridiculous mana cost for a spell with almost no CD that also deals considerable amounts of damage.

sit kidJul 1, 20171 votes

it doesnt really do that much, it is just more the scaling cooldowns as well

that said, i think her ball is pretty rough against melee champions

TekkenPlayerJul 1, 20171 votes

gets lost chapter, Q -> Ws for 40% balanced :')

Fisher No ChainsJul 1, 20171 votes

Well she doesn't even need it before she puts some points on W because her Q mana cost is so ridiculously low that she doesn't need to manage her mana at all.

Hotaru is WaifuJul 1, 20171 votes

i havent seen an ori in a long time so i cant relate but if she is strong at all parts of the game she needs a point where shes weak i can relate it to yasuo hes strong all phases but ive never balanced a game before so i dont know what should be done

Fisher No ChainsJul 1, 20171 votes

Plain and simple, revert an unnecessary buff to her Q. 20 mana cost up won't make her unplayable.

xCupidJul 1, 20171 votes

Lucian

King of MongooseJul 1, 20171 votes

dodge her spells lmfao

Fisher No ChainsJul 1, 20171 votes

Yea no trouble in dodging her Q if she throws it when the ball is on her, but that shit is an insane zoning tool. If you get close to the ball, she can QW you and there's nothing you can do about it except if you have a dash.

King of MongooseJul 1, 20171 votes

then don't pick a champion that has neither range nor mobility to deal with her

if you are picking ryze or annie or some mid range champ then you will get stomped

Fisher No ChainsJul 1, 20172 votes

What you're saying is basically "pick Xerath or Vel'Koz and don't complain". Do I really have to pick one of 3 champions to have a chance to win vs Orianna? That's not very healthy tbh.

King of MongooseJul 1, 20171 votes

or assassins

you can win with a lot more champs but if you just want to complain then you can pick a long ranged champion and push wave and then you won't get outtraded by ori because she won't be able to reach you

Fisher No ChainsJul 1, 20172 votes

Actually Orianna is a quite decent pick vs assassins. I HATE playing vs her as LB for example, because a good Orianna will never die to you and will just push you 24/7, preventing you from roaming and try to get kills and stuff on other lanes.

Also, I don't see how Orianna has trouble in reaching people. Her range is average for midlane so she can reach you in more than half of the midlane matchups.

King of MongooseJul 1, 20171 votes

lb isn't an assassin anymore

try picking ori vs a kass or a fizz, you will get wiped after lvl 6/11 and core items

Fisher No ChainsJul 1, 20171 votes

Fizz is manageable with barrier/exhaust and some decent timing, even though I agree that he's a pain if he's good at ulting.

Kassadin is stupidly op right now and he doesn't even count vs magic matchups.

LauchmelderJul 1, 20171 votes

Dude, just stay out of her range. Stand as far away from her as possible while still getting farm.

She moves up? You move back. The last time I played against her she hit a total of 4 QW combos on me during laning.

Fisher No ChainsJul 1, 20171 votes

I mean, that's what she shouldn't be able to do. As a scaling mage, why should I get zoned even if I'm playing a lane bully?

LauchmelderJul 1, 20171 votes

Orianna's a scaling mage AND a lane bully. Same for Syndra btw.

Fisher No ChainsJul 1, 20171 votes

That's just bad design then. Every champions has a weak and a strong phase in the game.

Also, Syndra isn't really a scaling mage. Her late isn't as good as Orianna's.

ParvatiShallowJul 1, 20171 votes

She's the new Ahri of Mid. Just a strong pick in general. Actually her and Ahri are top 2 pickrate. I don't think Ori is 'OP' but just too reliable. You can outplay Ori if you know her patterns.

ReySolomonJul 1, 20171 votes

4 months ago everybody said she was really balanced xD!

LauchmelderJul 1, 20171 votes

She still is.

OP claims that she's overpowered and then backs it up with "She just needs to Q W and AA to win every trade." Well no shit sherlock, if you don't even try to fight back she obviously wins every trade.

The only time Ori is that strong is lategame.

Spicy RiceJul 1, 20171 votes

The problem is, she can q-w, and then e for a shield and resistances. It's makes out-trading her extremely hard unless you massively out range her, or you have enough mobility to attack and get out.

LauchmelderJul 1, 20171 votes

Or you CC her and she can't do anything.

Fisher No ChainsJul 1, 20171 votes

I'm not saying she's broken op, but she needs an actual weak early to compensate for how good her mid/late is.

PS: I tried to fight back, she still wins every trade If she has half a brain. Please send help.

ZapMyHeartJul 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I'm not saying she's broken op, but she needs an actual weak early to compensate for how good her mid/late is.

PS: I tried to fight back, she still wins every trade If she has half a brain. Please send help.

She drops off at late game, actually.

Also, I'm surprised you're complaining about how easy it is to play Orianna, considering you only have a 30% winrate on her in Ranked. If she was that easy as you say, you should be rolling in ELO.

Fisher No ChainsJul 1, 20171 votes

You're the only guy saying Orianna falls off late. Lol, everyone says that she has a godlike late game.

Also, when did I say that she's an easy champion? She isn't, personally I suck with Ori, but if you're good with her you still have no counter and no real bad matchup. Remember that skill cap/floor IS NOT an excuse for a champion who has too much. For the same reason I could say "Draven is op, but since he's hard to play it's all good".

ZapMyHeartJul 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You're the only guy saying Orianna falls off late. Lol, everyone says that she has a godlike late game.

Also, when did I say that she's an easy champion? She isn't, personally I suck with Ori, but if you're good with her you still have no counter and no real bad matchup. Remember that skill cap/floor IS NOT an excuse for a champion who has too much. For the same reason I could say "Draven is op, but since he's hard to play it's all good".

Look at her stats. She falls off late game.

Easy to say a champion has "too much" when you're listing all pros. Did you bother to list the cons too?

She's a squishy mage. No escapes except a decaying MS boost. Requires great control of the ball. Kit is tied to ball positioning. Need good positioning of the champion itself. Minions reduce her Q damage. Q-W combo burns a lot of mana early game. E doesn't offer too much shielding early game. E's damage is also lowered by minions and you can sidestep it instead of run at her. 450g MR item negates a lot of her early Q poke damage.

If you got smacked by a Q-W-E, chances are, you were going to get smacked by some other mage's combo as well. Her range on her Q isn't far. 825 is around how much most mages' skills are at. Keep in mind, if she's tethering at a farther range, the slower her ball moves.

Considering your highest winrate champion in Ranked is Ahri and according to her personal stats, she doesn't fall off at any point of the game either. Why aren't you making a thread about how she deserves another nerf then?

Fisher No ChainsJul 1, 20171 votes

I don't think she falls off as hard as other champions tbh. Ahri is just a special snowflake that never falls off because of how her kit works. Also, I don't really care about Ahri being op or not because she doesn't feel unfair to play against.

About Ori weaknesses, yes, she has a lot of them, just like every other more-or-less balanced champion. What you don't understand is that I'm not saying "Orianna broken gut her", just that her laning is annoying as hell considering how much damage and utility she brings to a team. What I would like is her Q being back to 50 mana, stop. Nothing else, maybe just small CD changes.

ZapMyHeartJul 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I don't think she falls off as hard as other champions tbh. Ahri is just a special snowflake that never falls off because of how her kit works. Also, I don't really care about Ahri being op or not because she doesn't feel unfair to play against.

About Ori weaknesses, yes, she has a lot of them, just like every other more-or-less balanced champion. What you don't understand is that I'm not saying "Orianna broken gut her", just that her laning is annoying as hell considering how much damage and utility she brings to a team. What I would like is her Q being back to 50 mana, stop. Nothing else, maybe just small CD changes.

You should propose a nerf thread for Ahri then as well. She's unfair to play against for many others. Therefore, make a nerf thread about Ahri. If it's just your bias showing against Orianna because you can't personally beat her, then that's on you and it makes your thread pointless. Learn to play better and buy item 1033 early.

You do realize they dropped her mana cost for a reason. She had a lot of mana trouble back then because her Q burned a lot of her mana pool, leaving her next to nothing for the rest of her kit. Considering that her Q's cooldown is an integral part of her kit, nerfing her Q's cooldown isn't a "small CD change", as it affects everything else in her kit.

ReySolomonJul 2, 20171 votes

pretty much.

Unironic SJWJul 1, 20171 votes

didn't you know, mages are allowed to be overtuned for months and months, while the moment adcs or assassins or even fighters get out of line they get whackamoled

nachocheeseeeeeJul 1, 20171 votes

Your grammar is wrong. I know you were taught in primary school that any word that starts with a vowel (a, e, i, o, u) must be preceded by the indefinite article "an" instead of "a," but, you see, some words that start with vowels are pronounced with diphthongs (double vowel sounds in a syllable) such as the words university, universe, or, in your case, utility. It's not "an utility", it's "a utility." I know, shocking. You tried to sound smarter but really you made yourself sound stupider than the average English speaking person.

zxinferxzJul 1, 20173 votes

Or... maybe... he's not a native english speaker... so he might not know how the words are pronounced, and he only knows how to write properly in english, and that rule you're saying only applies when you know how to pronounce the word properly... I know, shocking. No need to be such a turbo%%%% about it, either

Fisher No ChainsJul 1, 20171 votes

This. In "EUW" there's not a single country that primarily speaks English. For example, I'm Italian, and unlike some North American players, I don't feel smart for speaking fluently my native language, because unlike them I can speak decently two languages. Yea, my English isn't perfect, but still. You can understand me, that's what matters.