@Meddler . opinion on some "pain point" mastery choices

SonicÐeHedgedawg··8 votes·3,060 views

I've heard you mention before that you like posts that get to the point, so that's what I'll do:

First off, let me just say that I think the mastery system in general is amazing now, and, while it may need some numbers tuning in a few places, on the whole, the concept is great.

My problem is that there are a couple places where, since you only have 2 choices in a teir in a given tree, you might feel forced to pick a "bad" mastery.

I'll elucidate two places as an example:

  • Tier 2 Ferocity for mage supports. Feast is a useless choice because, ideally, you should be killing so few minions. Double edged sword has perks, but also drawbacks since mage supports are already very fragile and taking any % extra damage is painful. You could always opt-out entirely and go into the Resolve tree, but that really is a non optional use of 12 points.

  • Tier 2 Cunning for non-mana dependent assassins. Given that both Stormraider's Surge and Thunderlord's Decree are in the cunning tree, most assassins should want to spec 18 in this tree, but that teir 2 mastery feels really useless on them. Without mana, or, at least, without mana problems, there's a low chance they are going to be given many blue buffs, so they are forced into the biscuit mastery, which isn't bad at all, but at many lower levels of play, you won't see summoners buying potions past the first buy or two, and even in higher levels of play, getting bonus mana isn't really useful to them, though the extra HP is kinda nice, it still feels like a halfway wasted mastery in many cases, and it kind of eliminates the whole idea of getting to choose your playstyle through masteries since you are going to be forced into biscuits by default, even if you don't have a portion heavy playstyle.

The good thing is that this is super easy to fix just by adding a few more mastery choices. Previous masteries "Expose Weakness" and "Blade/Spell Weaving" seem like good candidates, but that's hardly the important part. As long as they get replaced with SOMETHING that feels more worthwhile, I think there are a lot of good options.

What do you think Meddler? Or have you not thought about this much... In which case, feel free to mull it over and let me know what you think :)

22 Comments

RiotMeddler8 votes

We're generally on the same page. Long term we'll probably flesh out the tier 1 and tier 2 keystones until there are three choices there for each tree. First thing we're likely to add to is the Cunning tree. We're currently considering a tier 1 or tier 2 keystone that's a good fit on laning assassins.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

Ah, that is good to hear. I think making it so there are three masteries in all of the tiers would likely solve any gripes people have with the new masteries.

Lucifer2 votes

Would you consider the tier two upgrade as well? I personally prefer to opt into damage, and I don't care about the rune choice or the dangerous game. I'd rather pick something else. I generally agree with you that cunning feels kind of strange in general. Would like more options all around.

Also please address the bug with Thunderlords :( ? It's making me sad nothing is being done about it.

RiotMeddler6 votes

Yeah, plan is to get a third choice in at tier 2 as well.

The Thunderlord's bug where it only worked for one person per team was fixed in the hotfix last week.

Lucifer1 votes

It's still bugged. I posted about it awhile ago, but I don't think a red was able to pick it up.

If you check the tooltip, it says 10% AP and 20% bonus AD. It's currently giving 20% AP and 10% bonus AD (and has been since release). It feels balanced, but the tooltip does not match the in game. Hoping we can keep it in its current state, but I imagine that the change from 30 seconds to 20 seconds may make it too strong on AP assassins?

Crowe Stalker2 votes

It's 20% of AP every 20 seconds, regardless of whether it's AoE or not that's still negligible contributions on a mage's damage, forgetting the fact you have to weave to get that damage as opposed to something like item 3285 where it procs on the spell.

Lucifer1 votes

I think you misunderstood. If you look at the tooltip on the mastery page, it says it's supposed to give you 10% AP. In game, it's giving you 20% AP.

The reverse is true for AD. It's supposed to be giving 20% bonus AD. It's currently giving 10% bonus AD.

My post wasn't about the AOE (which is rather small, about the size of lay waste)

Crowe Stalker4 votes

Oh, well then that should be rectified, incorrect tooltips are the bane of calculated decisions.

AHeroNamedHawke1 votes

{quoted}

Oh, well then that should be rectified, incorrect tooltips are the bane of calculated decisions.

Bonus points

Strength of the Ages' tooltip referencing bonus HP on kill is backwards for siege minions and jungle mobs

Should be 20/10 not 10/20

This patch is a mess

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

I thought they had just decided to be nice to tanky junglers (giving them some early health to scale with Cinderhulk), but after I'd noticed how slowly health was accumulating in game I learned that they had just made a mistake in the tooltip for Strength of Ages.

SonicÐeHedgedawg1 votes

First off, thank you for replying!

Second off, why are you up so late!?!

Third off, since you say you are tailoring the new cunning mastery to lane assassins, which is perfect because that's exactly what they need, can the equivalent new ferocity mastery be tailored to non-farming mages... Because that's exactly who needs it.

I appreciate you taking the slow approach though. I'd rather have mastery options that give everyone a decent choice at every teir that takes 3 months to get out, than to have more options NOW that still leave champions left out.

I still think blade/spell Weaving is perfect for most assassins, and expose weakness is perfect for mage supports, but Riot always surprised me with their creativity, so maybe something entirely new would be even better! (Like, since it's for LANE assassins, maybe "after dealing X damage to enemy champion, take reduced damage from enemy minions" so it's easier to go for kills without dying

LankPants2 votes

If you're adding to the tier 1/2 keystones I think Spellblade was a great mastery that was left out this season.

SonicÐeHedgedawg1 votes

I think it's a great mastery, but I think it's too powerful to go in the low mastery tree.... Seems like it's about the same strength as pickpocket and dangerous game or bounty hunter and uh... Whatever the other one is called though! Could be a great alternative there!

Khell DarkWolf1 votes

{quoted}

We're generally on the same page. Long term we'll probably flesh out the tier 1 and tier 2 keystones until there are three choices there for each tree. First thing we're likely to add to is the Cunning tree. We're currently considering a tier 1 or tier 2 keystone that's a good fit on laning assassins.

We need more masteries and the mechanic of spending skill points changed. You guys have gimped the usage of the new mastery tree system: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/vGxtB0Yl-riot-here-is-my-quibble-season-6-masteries-misc

Siachi1 votes

This is a little off-topic, but I have a small nitpick with the Cunning tree. Could the positions of Bandit and Dangerous Game, and Wanderer and Savagery be switched? Otherwise, it seems like the more 'support' masteries are on the right side, with the 'assassin' masteries on the left, except for these two spots.

J Eevo1 votes

Any plans on introducing an option for poke mages like Xerath Ziggs who mainly poke with one spell (so thunderlord's a waste) and don't synergize well with deathfire (as opposed to champions with dot/ multihit abilities) and for mages that prefer to build CD reduction instead of flat AP (something with better base damage or benefitting them anyway)?

SonicÐeHedgedawg1 votes

You don't need a DoT to synergize well enough with DFT to use it, just reliable poke.

Of course if you have poke AND a DoT ability, the synergy is even higher, but it's not a requirement

J Eevo1 votes

The damage DFT adds to poke spells is laughable though, in comparison to mages that can utilize it well, and those that just go for thunderlord's. It's negligible enough to consider not going into third keystone at all because it's so bad, and considering doing half and half of two trees instead

SonicÐeHedgedawg2 votes

Adding an extra 0.2 AP Ratio to every spell you hit with is not "laughable". It adds up, that's the point. You aren't going to find anything nearly comparable in strength going 12/12/6 instead

J Eevo1 votes

Pretty sure it's not a pure 0.2ap also it's calculated diffrently for aoe spells (which Poke Qs are most of the time) My point being that even though it adds up (hell, AAs add up, doesn't mean they're good on mages) it it'd benefit more from just regular ap or mpen instead.

You don't believe me, fine, play a game as Ziggs with DFT and tell me how great it is on him. Then try someone who's damage is not frontloaded on one spell then compare

Chromatic Eagle1 votes

Why weren't more options considered before release? I'm sincerely curious.

ULTRA RAMOOSE1 votes

Congrats on chasing away a mass amounts of LoL players, when does TENCENT realize something is amiss and step in to cull Greg Street and the rest of you that are ruining the game. I'm guessing there will have to be like a 50% drop in player base before he mysteriously moves on to jack with another game.

The changes made to the "masteries" was the worst ever, you guys took the magic out of the game and dumbed it down, Pre-season 5 when you guys ruined the jungle, this preseason where you took away the ability from slow clearing tanks to jungle and then added a jungle item just for leesin, now you made the jungle gold more scarce, raised prices on all tank armor, beefed up anyone that benefits from crit (placed %hp true damage on almost everyone) and made it so playing a tank (like rammus) feels anorexic (starving to keep up and scale against the other team).

Mass exodus incoming, I left last week, gg!

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