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A message to riot: please change Zac back

Excellent Era·10/4/2018, 9:58:27 PM·101 votes·22,528 views

here are some comments from riot shrieve after/during the zac rework to the zac main community, let's look over them RiotShrieve: We're very aware that changes to R would be more contentious then anything we did to Q and W. Bottom line here is that we're looking into squishing the ~4 seconds of chaotic AoE effects into one high moment that can easily determine the outcome of a teamfight. Versatile is a pretty good for it as well. yeah. riot achieved their goal, you either get a good ult and feel great, or get a shit ult and feel shitty. and due to humans wanting to avoid loss, for example losing $100 or winning $100, the shitty ults always hit harder and stay in memory. but you know is "easily determining the outcome of a teamfight" really healthy? or even fun? to me and the majority of zac mains we prefer the old ultimate, and we prefer being able to carry ourselves not the enemy team, we don't want to be team reliant tank CC bots. thats not what zac was. zac was a FIGHTER I have no doubts in my mind that zac was a fighter, he was like rumble (Ap fighter) but could go assasian full ap and snipe you from the bushes dealing more burst damage than rumble ever could, he could also choose to go full tank, and move all around the fight with his R and knock many opponents in varying directions (not just one). I mean it's really not fun that an ultimate can easily decide a teamfight, thats why zac had over a 100% ban rate after rework and is only balanced while having a 48% or less winrate ever since a month after rework We the zac community couldn't even care less about whether or not zac has a 50%+ winrate we just want him to be fun, we want to be able to play top/mid/support/jungle like we used to, be able to build FULL AP, half ap/half tank, or full tank, we don't want to be restricted to just full tank, please riot, I understand hes great in pro play but please I don't want another ryze that's only good in fakers hands requiring extreme coordination and teamwork

Zacs ult - either land E or you don't get R enemies when landed by E - either flash out, or you get caught by R

thats all it comes down to. if enemies are caught in ur ult they have to flash if they even have time, and if you miss the ultimate well hey u get poked while you run back to a bush waiting for E to come back. it feels like a blitzcrank hook, you either hit it and enemy is screwed or you miss and wait until it's up again not really fun compared to old zac, for either side

I just want to be able to play zac and feel the carry potential I used to have, I want to be able to press R when someone is chasing me and have them knocked back while I go forwards with my movment speed and survive with 1 hp, I dont want to be stuck on the ground and have the enemy fly with me when I R, or tap R and get zero movespeed and just get auto attacked to death, I want the W base damage back, we want to be Duelers, we were FIGHTERS not tanks, not pure Cc zero damage bots, we could be AP assassins like Evelyn if we wanted without being called trolls and going 0/20/0 because our new ultimate doesn't allow for any reliable escape and our Q damage is gutted along with W

     AP and Top Lane will certainly have to modify their playstyle to account for the major changes to Q and R. Tank Jungle will continue to be his primary role, however we're not intending to nerf his other position and alternative build out of existence.
  1. AP zac mains didn't/couldn't modify their play style, they were blasted out of existence, there is no room anymore for full ap zac, and that's just disheartening.
  2. top lane zac has no where near the amount of dueling potential as old zac and can be considered also out of existence, lets take a look at the damage difference of old top vs new top

  • new Q 30 / 40 / 50 / 60 / 70 (+ 30% AP) lets see the damage if you hit target and slam him to a minion lvl 1: 60 dmg, lvl 2: 80 damage, lvl 3: 100 damage, lvl 4: 120 damage lvl 5: 140 damage + the 30% AP. old Q? 70 / 110 / 150 / 190 / 230 (+ 50% AP) damage lost by level = 1: 10 2: 30 3: 50 4: 70 5: 90 so he gained CC but his Q now has longer cooldown and does less damage.. hard nerf to top lane zac and hard nerf to ap zac with the 20% less AP ratio and base damage lowered

  • new W 15 / 30 / 45 / 60 / 75 (+ 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8% of target's maximum health) old W 40 / 55 / 70 / 85 / 100 (+ 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8% (+ 2% per 100 AP) of target's maximum health) zac loses 25 damage at every level every 5 seconds, along with the extra 2% max hp at 100 hp, take a 500 AP zac. on a 2000 hp target that is a total loss of 225 damage EVERY 5 SECONDS. 10% max hp(200) and the 25 base damage hard nerf to AP and Top zac

  • old E had 20 more base damage each level and new E has 20% more ap scaling which is 100% useless because again AP zac is gutted and non existent, so for top zac it's a nerf, also old E didn't need to charge to max range for the 1 second stun/knockup

new R 150 / 250 / 350 (+ 90% AP) old R 140 / 210 / 280 (+ 40% AP) (2nd and third bounce) 70 / 105 / 140 (+ 20% AP) again idk why riots giving his ult more AP scaling when they have completely removed AP Zac. so old ult could do 280 at level 6, 420 at lvl 11, and 560 at level 16, damage difference at lvl 6: 130 lvl 11: 170 lvl 16: 210 old ultimate also giving you movment speed to catch up to your enemies (in this case solo laner(top)) so this is a definite nerf to top lane tank zac at least in the laning phase (which is where all the fun happens) or any situation that you don't have a team.

I get it. tanks are supposed to have a team and protect someone, but atm zac is way less tanky than other tanks, also riot nerfed zac during the rework, he used to get blobs during ult with R and W, adding to about 24% max health regained during a fight, that's a lot of health he's losing simply because his new ultimate doesn't drop blobs and he can't W during it.
And I understand that ever since the scuttler changes all tanks not just zac have suffered, but it's not about zac having had a 45% winrate, it's about zac not being FUN anymore, hes not the old zac, and it's about zac being 100% team reliant, I can't even think of a more team reliant champion other than soraka, and at least soraka has control over who she heals, when you ult to ur team as Zac you just have to pray that they're competent enough to do something with your ult. also the new ult allows for zero adjustments after firing it. there's no ebb and flow, it's plan where ur going in. and thats it. that's all. old ult you could have a plan set up, press R, suddenly their teammates flash, and you'd still have 2 bounces to adjust to what it was you wanted to do. it was just way more chaotic imo than the new ultimate, new ultimate is either un fun for your team, or un fun for the enemy team, and we do zero damage and it's so shitty missing a zac ult

the zac community feels like Zac has been neglected, GankR a master teir player has made so many posts on zac, and even on the dev corners and they had 30+ upvotes on the front comments of dev corners and never get a response. Riot doesn't even want to mention zac except in their tank update they put his name but have no plans to talk about him. and on the zac subreddit theres a screenshot going around about a rioter who in game said that zac wasn't going to get changed as far as he knows.

look leblanc, rengar, fizz have all gotten reverted, we're honestly begging you for some compromise here.

ah... please posts your thoughts, on whether or not you like new or old zac, I do understand that there are people who like the new zac in the zac subreddit but many of them haven't played old zac and I don't know what people who have never played either zac think about facing each version

103 Comments

PhantomSpirit10110/4/2018, 10:02:03 PM29 votes

Yeah... Bring Sej back to us as well

Boulderox10/5/2018, 12:27:39 AM19 votes

Riot: we don't like players having fun and playing Zac in a more damage focused/bruiser way, so we are taking most of his damage away and giving him more CC

Riot a few weeks later: we have to nerf zac because he is a bit too dominant due to his CC

Zac didn't need the fucking change, he is a shell of what he was imo. And he is stuck in the jungle, pre rework, i found a lot of fun with him top lane, great sustain and poke with old Q. But fuck fun.... he won a worlds, so if it isn't an adc, it needs a nerf fam.

TheSingularity10/4/2018, 10:22:36 PM19 votes

Agreed. I miss bouncing around the place sooo much. His new r is so boring and anticlimactic

Bouncemaster Zac10/4/2018, 11:06:07 PM15 votes

I actually submitted a long and detailed thread on this to G+. Waiting to hear on approval. That said, his old kit was healthier; period. The rework awas an utter failure, and he didn't need reworked in the first place anyway.

GIbbyGiblets10/5/2018, 1:52:14 AM8 votes

Please god give me old Zac back.

He was so much fun ive basically stopped playing since the rework happened. From 30ish games a week to maybe 3-4 arams

KOGMIDONLY10/4/2018, 11:48:20 PM7 votes

Miss u old zac. Riot can eat a ass

CleverCactus10/4/2018, 10:58:13 PM7 votes

I thought being able to bounce around in his ult while using W and picking up blobs was genius. He feels so one-dimensional now.

FCJAAAAGOOOO10/5/2018, 3:27:20 AM5 votes

Give us our zacc bacc

MarkedOfKane10/4/2018, 11:25:19 PM5 votes

I would really like old Zac back. Also Sej.

Power Cosmic10/5/2018, 12:32:09 AM5 votes

It seems abundantly clear Riot should stop basing their decisions on what they want, bc they're always wrong. Just revert all the bad reworks to bring positivity back to community.

soopcan10/5/2018, 2:05:30 AM3 votes

Yes. YES. YEESS. The Zac rework did nothing except piss off Zac mains and make Zac feel mediocre to play as (since they nerfed him 20 bajillion times). Hopefully they acknowledge these kinds of threads and revert him soon instead of reverting him wayy later (cough rengar leblanc). I get that he's still good in high elo, but that's basically all he has going for him in terms of support from players lol

DarukongSr10/5/2018, 1:51:37 AM3 votes

This post made me sad, and I feel terrible for Zac mains. I think the OP made some good points and they should revert Zac.

Keladinus10/5/2018, 3:49:20 AM3 votes

If you're asking Riot to change a champ in a way that would make them less team-reliant and more self-sufficient, you can save your breath. Riot has become convinced that in a game that is 75% solo queue based, relying on complete strangers is, somehow, fun.

RottedApples10/5/2018, 4:35:16 AM3 votes

zac and maokai are two of the really big like, there was literally no reason to even do a balance change on these chamions let alone a rework because they were the pinnacle of their class, while maokai is still maokai (admittedly i do miss the old ult and saplings) zac is just like, why. his old ult was way better imo, and a lot more fun to use (because you could ult then zhonyas)

also i still miss old quinn

Corgi Sinefind10/5/2018, 11:56:59 PM3 votes

Old Zac carried me out of bronze. I won 13 games straight with him to get into silver, 2 years ago. I loved e'ing into the backline, ulting the carries forward, and then flashing in front of the front line to knock them backwards. Normally my team would have time to burst the squishies, and it made team fights feel epic.

I personally liked his old q as it made clearing easier and was a quick reliant slow. His new q is so frustrating when you q the wrong minion during the first part or auto the wrong minion during the second part.

The new Zac is so boring. I haven't played him since shortly after his rework because of the changes to his ult and q. I found it easy to climb with old Zac because I could control fights and peel for my teammates. Now I feel useless when I play him.

Please bring back the old Zac, Riot. I miss him very much. It's like I lost an old friend.

warmcorntortilla10/7/2018, 11:35:01 AM2 votes

My favorite duo q buddy used to main Zac and Sej.... now he hardly plays anymore post reworks.... please Riot...... revert him U_U

The Trent10/5/2018, 11:44:33 PM2 votes

I dislike the new Zac R. It's clunky and boring. When playing against Zac the R is just annoying and half the time I can just dash or walk out of it. Old Zac R was tons of fun though. I miss it.

Gamma Anomaly10/8/2018, 5:29:18 AM2 votes

Hm no Riot response despite the large amount of attention this post has. I wish I could be surprised at that but that's been par for the course when it comes to Riot acknowledging Zac players, Zac criticisms, etc.

Deep Banana10/6/2018, 7:09:45 AM2 votes

100% Agree, old Zac was best Zac. Zac was my go to champ, complete confidence for ranked before the rework. I felt like I could effect the map early and protect my jungle with a long since forgotten aspect, FEAR... Yes back then you could actually kill someone in a 1v1 or atleast do significant damage and consequently MAKE PLAYS! New Zac feels so bad with out his ability to make people afraid. Now its a singular playstyle with a binary checklist for success and being effective.

1.) Do not ever expect to kill a champion that is not under 10% health unless a teammate is relatively close by.. Oh and actually helps out. 2.) What made Zac unique, his amazing ability to reliably start fights off from down town and cause glorious unadulterated chaos.... NOPE CANT DO NO MORE, U A SUPPORT NOW = ( Thx to people B*tching about his E landing zone not being as easy to see as a fking lighthouse thats also on fire, unless that person is in some way under cc they gonna move away in time which disables any chance u can use your ult without heavy cc assistance. Ult is extremely telegraphed and so underwhelming for the wind up time Q just makes to people do kisses for a quick sec. Every other engage tank does his job better

Gadwar10/6/2018, 7:16:24 PM2 votes

Hey guys call me crazy but add additional Passive like: metamorphosis use your jello body to form: here lay out option for old abilities at the start of the game or as you play the game collecting exp. He is formed of jello he should be able to even form sions q with jello hammer xD. Lore free body xD hehe.

Pr0vince10/5/2018, 11:15:35 PM2 votes

Zac was my favorite champ before rework. I didn't care that he only had like two skins because it was a blast to play him. Now he's ruined forever.

TheGr8WhiteD10/7/2018, 12:57:21 AM2 votes

I quit League when Zac was reworked. I actually came back to the game trying to have fun with it today, and I just look at my champ select not knowing what to pick...just nothing interests me and Id never want to play my former main. Its really depressing honestly, like I kind of lost an old friend in a way. :/

Tormentula10/4/2018, 11:34:12 PM1 votes

Worse part.

I don't think they can change zac back due to SKT zac. His old ult was basically another model with stretching mechanics, they never animated his old Q (which they could do but they'd have to factor in his armor stretching) or made an SKT version of the "blob" ult and re-animation that blob.

This isn't like LB or rengar where its just simply animation work if there was any, SKT zac was a really really difficult skin for the skin team to make due to his jelly body rig and using different models in his abilities opposed to just animations.