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I've mained shaco for a while, but I haven't realized till now why he isn't used much in high levels

Weathered··1 votes·881 views

I have around 150K mastery points on Shaco and am currently placed in silver 3. Yes, I know, silver. I almost never play shaco in ranked however simply because its too risky. Anyway, I almost always am fed during shaco games and more often than not it ends in a win. Long story short, I started play some games with a few friends at a higher ELO and realized the problem with shaco at higher levels. People are really on the ball with pink wards. Every person but one in that game had a pink ward placed, and some of them were carrying a spare to put down in a skirmish against me. I still did decent in that game because I realized what was going on and played safe, but it was still worrying. Shaco's whole kit is centered around stealth and outplay, and its so easily counterable with a single item. It'd be ok if it was a few champs, but an item that everyone can have?

Essentially, I'm proposing a change to pink wards. I realize this could be unbalanced, and if it is please say so. Make it so that pink wards only give true vision on stealthed champions for the first 15 seconds on activation. To compensate for this, the vision they grant is slightly larger. They still have to timer on how long they last, and they still are visable when you walk near them. This means that they still work when you put them down in a fight to see an enemy vayne ulting, but they wont hard counter champions like shaco so hard that they really won't ever be used in high ELO.

(constructive) Feedback appreciated.

35 Comments

Best Darius KR2 votes

So, let me get this straight.

You haven't played ANY games whatsoever in high ELO, and despite this, you say you have come up with the reason why he is not used in the said high ELOs?

Also, just because a champion gets countered by an item doesn't mean you have to change the whole god damn game because of it.

If you want to see Shaco in a better place, ask for changes on Shaco HIMSELF, not the only buyable wards in the game.

Weathered1 votes

I wasn't speaking for all shaco mains nor was I saying I knew what I was talking about. I was making an observation that since I started playing some games with higher ELO players that I found it weird that a champion could be near completely countered by an accumulative 500 gold from the enemy team. I wasn't trying to invalidate pink wards either, and was trying to keep them as important or more important. If I could spend 500 gold and have Yasuo's windwall only work 20% of the time I'm sure there would be some commotion on the boards.

Edit: 375 gold with the price decrease

Rocky22 votes

{quoted}

Anyway, I almost always am fed during shaco games and more often than not it ends in a win.

Actually, according to your stats, more often than not it ends in a loss ;)

http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/55471549#ranked-stats

My problem with people playing Shaco at my rank and below is that they aren't significant contributors to the team fights we have. Which would be fine if they're taking objects, but often they don't. I do notice that the shacos usually get a lot of kills though.

Weathered1 votes

I don't play shaco in ranked, which I thought I mentioned. If you look at match history of normal games its much better (I have a habit of bad ranked games but good normals). And to add on the subject of team fights, during the tank meta more often than not I would build bruiser tank, similar to how Shaclone builds. I'm not the kind of player who just tries to carry solo :P

Maximum Morde2 votes

Pink wards are fine. Kill them and come back later. If they keep replacing them, you are hurting them badly on money. Keep doing that.

Stealth is a bullshit mechanic anyway.

Teémò1 votes

If you try to ping shaco in a team fight it's supposed to ping the real shaco and not the fake, not entirely sure how true that is but with old poppy I would always just drop my ultimate on him because it would tell everyone who was the real shaco well I went in beating faces :P

I wouldn't say it's at all out of meta, but if you go shaco top you can get to level 2 coming into lane once you took gromp and it's actually pretty good because of his ability to outplay getting ganked well, but he really needs that jungle monster because his wave clear isnt strong without items more like a teemo you poke and run away, but with pre knowledge of the jungle for a shaco top you need to take advantage of your stealth and bother the enemy jungler so its like ok shyvanna jungle clear 2:36 evelynn 2:30 fizz 2:34 I believe If they got the right masteries of course.

It really scares me to proxy with evelynn or singed in this meta because of how easy it would be to get the jungler going. but it's still a viable option after a few levels as a shaco because you can always use your Q to get away from anything see them and blink into towers to kil yourself xD

Teémò1 votes

Oh, when proxying you can use your jack in the boxes as vision control to check when your getting ganked or you can just go all in on them, totally didn't see the pink ward thing o.o with only 1 pink on the map that would suck so bad getting ganked out of no where by a eve when she backed and walked into your lane after 20 seconds

Weathered1 votes

Ya, I've played a little bit of shaco top and its really fun ^.^ I just felt like jungle shaco needed a little more leeway or at least a counter that is harder to pull off rather than just using 75 gold per person to have a ward that invalidates half of his kit. He's too heavily centered around his q right now, which I love and hate at the same time.

Teémò1 votes

unlike an akali though who gets destroyed by pink wards you can always just blink over the wall with a guinsoo and clear fast well proxy jungling the enemy camps.

wukong i think has one of the worst problems with pink wards in lane though, because pre 6 he is so reliant on his combo that if a teemo went and grabbed cloth armor 2 pots and a pink he'd be completly zoned from cs and would fall off in gold until the jungler could push teemo out to help clear it, but even then that amount teemo could be so ahead it would be scary.

which is why I said its so important shaco gets that level 2 so quickly because he would just get destroyed in the early game :)
Right now though I've never seen so many people playing shaco, but he's really easy to beat as long as you know his gank times/ clear times I find shaco support one of the funniest, but best for vayne for that early jungle clear though. because she struggles badly in the early game, but getting an early level 2 for vayne spells defeat for the enemy bot lane double invisibility xD

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

Better change the only counterplay to shaco

Weathered1 votes

If you played shaco you would know there are more than just pink wards to counter shaco.

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

Played him,and that's the only thing that counters him before 20 min(surr) and his gambling potential. Q--->walk behind an enemy--->w behind them and aa---> profit Muh skill muh counterplay

Weathered1 votes

Your profile says that your last like 6 posts are complaining on every thread that champs dont take skill. "nidalee doesnt take skill, lee sin doesnt take skill, shaco doesnt take skill"

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

Yeah,and?

FHMarshy1 votes

I honestly don't think there's a problem with shaco. I play Shaco a lot in diamond ranked. I don't find any problems.

Weathered1 votes

I'm really in the business to learn then, because I seem to always have trouble with it. Most people on this post are just downvoting and arguing. Other than just making sure you walk through bushes and keep track of when the enemy loses a pink ward from their inventory, is there anyway to really determine where the pink wards are and how to avoid them? I realize that you can just clear them and try again for a gank later, but it sets me behind a good bit having to walk up to a lane like top, clear the ward, then just walk back to farm. It always feels like wasted time.

FHMarshy1 votes

First off, i want to establish the fact that Shaco is really not the best pick in the current patch due to other tanky junglers being more favorable. Shaco lacks the sustain in team fight and lacks the CC to lock down when ganking.

Now, how to efficiently deal with pink wards. You can play around it. There are bushes that each lane like to pink up. Best way to defeat pink ward is really just the basic wards. If enemy pinks a bush warded by your team, they will most likely take out the ward. That, in itself, should be a clear way to see which bush is pinked.

I really don't know what elo you are playing at, but 5 Pinks don't really come out til 6-7 minutes in the majority of the games. What i generally do is counter jungle often. Once you set back the enemy jungler, even if it's just a buff or a few camps, you eliminate his ganking potential early on as most jungler requires level 3 -4 to do an efficient gank.

Weathered1 votes

Thanks, and I'm in silver. Since most people don't even buy pinks, thats why I do so well with Shaco. It was only when I started playing with some friends in higher ELO games that this came up. On the topic of other junglers, what do you suggest? I've had success with Amumu and Hybrid Zac so far, but I'm always weary of trying others because of the jungle changes. Kha'Zix and other assasin jgs just arent the same anymore.

FHMarshy1 votes
  1. Diana DrMundo Ekko Elise Fizz Gragas Kindred JarvanIV Jax LeeSin Olaf Nunu Maokai RekSai Rengar Sejuani Shyvana TahmKench Vi Volibear are all pretty decent choices
Weathered1 votes

Thanks! I'm not to sure about Fizz and Diana jungle anymore since runeglaive is being removed, not that Diana had good base AD to scale of of the proc anyway. I mostly play her mid so it doesn't really matter. By the way Vi was the next jungler I was going to save up for: Does she mainly build tanky or a bruiser with some damage (warrior)?

FHMarshy1 votes

I really think build path is defined as the game progress. You have a damage dealer that is getting fed? Go tanky to peel and engage. You don't have enough damage on the team? Build damage and act more as an assassin/bruiser.

Chaos6891 votes

Bc shaco is a toxic jungle...also pink wards are good bc noone likes ur invis BS

Keti1 votes

The reason shaco isn't played at high elo is that Lee sin does almost everything shaco does, but better.

Colgate Gator1 votes

{quoted}

The reason shaco isn't played at high elo is that Lee sin does almost everything shaco does, but better.

This, pretty much, except that Lee has reliable damage and CC instead of the stealth gimmick.

Another reason why Shaco isn't exactly used a lot save for some people (if I remember correctly there's some high Elo Shaco main somewhere on youtube) is because he's the definition of feast or famine.

Spicy Rice1 votes

You are referencing PInk Ward who plays AP Shaco top

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

Tekk or Shaclone I think

BluePolarizer1 votes

Silver is not high elo.

Weathered1 votes

Thats why I made a point of saying it so that people would know that I might be wrong.

Bemapon1 votes

Gold 3 Shaco Main imput: While i am not really "High elo" pink wards no not really need nerfs.

{quoted} Shaco's whole kit is centered around stealth and outplay

Dealing with pink wards and stuff becomes a lot easier if you focus on "outplay" and less on the stealth. If you notice the enemy team is spamming pinks everywhere, just play the game like you dont have stealth. Always assume they can see you when you invis. And if the enemy is focusing so much on countering you, GOOD. That less attention they are paying to the rest of your team.

Spicy Rice1 votes

The problem with nerfing Pink Wards instead of buffing shaco is that it buffs literally all champions that use stealth.

You'd be buffing Evelynn Rengar Vayne Twitch Akali Teemo MonkeyKing

along with Shaco.

Weathered1 votes

True. Keep in mind I'm silver and was just kinda voicing something I was thinking about xD

Spicy Rice1 votes

Nothing against you XD, just pointing out the unintended consequences of nerfing an item instead of buffing the champion

Guyy Fieri1 votes

Ya I'm sorry but vision has already been hit hard enough in preseason. Had green wards not been removed, maybe I would agree but i definitely can't agree with the state of vision

Sir Yamazuki1 votes

He has an above average pick rate plat+, so unsure what you're talking about.

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