I thought riot understood what counterplay meant....

Bellows·Apr 1, 2016·2 votes·1,227 views

Counter play does not mean Pick talon so Aurelion Sol has 0% chance to win lane. This is an unhealthly way to shape league. I mean yah LB, Fizz, Zed, and yasuo are tough, but i can beat them with good positioning. Talon? absolutely no fukin way to control shittttttttttttttttttt as Sol. It's toxic and he needs double tap Q like anivia to have a chance to counter play talon. I mean COME ON RIOT, at max everything it still has like a 10 second cd, thats ten seconds talon will still have if they bait out my stun and i miss (which is not hard to dodge if skilled).

This isn't healthy and his weakness is too weak. Sure he's strong, but it doesnt excuse losing in champ select. Don't believe me, go play a game vs Talon as Sol, you have 0 chance, even if jgler ganks you, Talon can always come back and turret dive you ez.

Pls riot, give him double tap Q. Even if i hit double tap Q inside my "weak zone" it pretty much uses the whole time of the stun to even align my outstretched stars with them and they can move out of the way, it is not compromising Sol's weakness, instead barely gives him a chance to counter play in lane.

58 Comments

Nameless VoiceApr 1, 20163 votes

So you're saying that Talon's kit doesn't have enough counterplay, so they should buff Sol?

BellowsApr 1, 20161 votes

they should buff sol cause Sol is the one that suffers from his blink and annhilate worse than ANY other mage in the game, his output drops to literally 0 unless you want to blow that 120cd ult

9L9L9L9L9L9L9LApr 1, 20162 votes

Agreed he needs a double tap Q...but Riot is going to nerf his stun soon [zombie-nunu-tears]

BellowsApr 1, 20161 votes

a shame, i would be alright with the stun time nerf if it was double tap, i would say that would be a great trade off that wouldnt make him over bearing and still be effective in situations like Talon blink.

DeaerasApr 1, 20162 votes

So you're saying that Aurelion, a champ who completely eats immobile mages like Kog' maw, Lulu, Xerath, Vel' Koz, Syndra, Orianna, to an extent Azir, etc. Should have a way for him to negate his own counters? Why don't they give this to every champ? Why doesn't Vel' Koz' stun be targeted, or maybe Azir's soldiers cancel blinks! Or maybe, Lulu polymorph lasts until they die! Just give all these champs who are for the most part countered by assassins as well, bullshit mechanics that would make them incredibly OP.

BellowsApr 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

So you're saying that Aurelion, a champ who completely eats immobile mages like Kog' maw, Lulu, Xerath, Vel' Koz, Syndra, Orianna, to an extent Azir, etc. Should have a way for him to negate his own counters? Why don't they give this to every champ? Why doesn't Vel' Koz' stun be targeted, or maybe Azir's soldiers cancel blinks! Or maybe, Lulu polymorph lasts until they die! Just give all these champs who are for the most part countered by assassins as well, bullshit mechanics that would make them incredibly OP.

What youre saying is not really relevant as Vel Koz has a knock up that is really effective, also a constant slow on his low cd q

xerath has a nifty stun and more range on me and has more mana sustain then me due to passive, orianna is painful to go in on, that ball is no joke especially when her W i think it is, slows you, reducing your kiting efficiency and her ult will destroy my positioning to kite her, syndra's stun isnt hard to land and knocks me away from kiting, she has more burst potential., and kog maw is an adc and an off meta pick for midlane. Off pick, but effective also out ranges you lol. They all have ways of dealing with tough lanes, Talon is creates issues where thats not possible. You can do nothing and then get turret dived later.

DeaerasApr 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

What youre saying is not really relevant as Vel Koz has a knock up that is really effective, also a constant slow on his low cd q

xerath has a nifty stun and more range on me and has more mana sustain then me due to passive, orianna is painful to go in on, that ball is no joke especially when her W i think it is, slows you, reducing your kiting efficiency and her ult will destroy my positioning to kite her, syndra's stun isnt hard to land and knocks me away from kiting, she has more burst potential., and kog maw is an adc and an off meta pick for midlane. Off pick, but effective also out ranges you lol. They all have ways of dealing with tough lanes, Talon is creates issues where thats not possible. You can do nothing and then get turret dived later.

Vel' Koz knockup is easily missed and dodged, you can easily Q my ult leaving half my damage output down, the Q slow is mediocre in lane phase and won't do much to stop you, and W will do nothing really. Xerath E is easily dodged and so is slow, and is easily it by spells. Just becasue Syndra knocks you away doesn't mean that you can't do shit, she can only knock you away once like every 13 seconds sooooo. Kog' Maw doesn't outrange Aurelion at all, his ult range is only slightly higher than Aurelion's outer limit at rank 1, and Aurelion literally shits on every aspect of Kog' Maw. Aurelion hard counters every immobile mage in the game leaving very little room for counterplay on their parts. So giving him the ability to point blank stun an assassin after they gap close, ult them to his outer limit, and kill them basically means he hard counters assassins to, because most assassins only have 1 gap closer. Aurelion would have no counterplay if such a thing happened.

BellowsApr 1, 20161 votes

Heres the problem you havn't put into context, xerath could miss stun.... but keep in mind the situation is a melee same distance that the inner stars would be (closer actually). so hard to miss that, vel's knock up.

I could use your argument against heimer dinger, before sol only thin that helped was brand, and a skilled heimer could still take him down if he tried. Keep in mind, they can do something if they get close, infact the closer those assasins are, the easier it is to hit the cc for them. Sol is purposely locked out of that. might as well take away heimer's stun grenade since he has so much bully potential as well like Sol.

DeaerasApr 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Heres the problem you havn't put into context, xerath could miss stun.... but keep in mind the situation is a melee same distance that the inner stars would be (closer actually). so hard to miss that, vel's knock up.

I could use your argument against heimer dinger, before sol only thin that helped was brand, and a skilled heimer could still take him down if he tried. Keep in mind, they can do something if they get close, infact the closer those assasins are, the easier it is to hit the cc for them. Sol is purposely locked out of that. might as well take away heimer's stun grenade since he has so much bully potential as well like Sol.

But heimer is meant to counter assassins and lose vs mages, giving his turrets insane range would mean that mages couldnt do shit against them, the reason aurelion cannot instantly stun is because that would be too broken. his damage is already too high, and his ability to shit on mages too great. its literally like vel koz in lane phase, if he stuns you youre dead. thats why you need to play assassins to counter him, because theyre the only ones who can reliably get into his outer limit and kill him. giving him the ability to instantly stun negates that, and then he has no weaknesses.

theonlyaustinApr 1, 20162 votes

Why does your op.gg never show you playing against talon as Aurelion Sol?[slayer-jinx-unamused]

the Anarchit3chtApr 1, 20161 votes

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2143697044/216523302?tab=overview

Because OP.GG never updates correctly or on time and NEVER has.

CatastropApr 1, 20161 votes

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2143697044/216523302?tab=overview If OP.gg is being a bitch like usual, just check their match history from their boards profile. Seriously though, I caught between laughing at how Talon got to feeling the smallest bit of sympathy for OP.

the Anarchit3chtApr 1, 20161 votes

Looks to me like most of your deaths were in turret space. Are you some kind of mad crazy diver?

BellowsApr 1, 20161 votes

My own. Lol.

the Anarchit3chtApr 1, 20161 votes

Makes sense now that I realize you were on purple team.

Michael SykesApr 1, 20161 votes

Well, counterpicks are intended. But I agree with you that matchups which could one of both only lose (like 35% winrate on champion.gg in a matchup) should not be allowed. But I am sure that there are ways for Aurelion to win lane and at least the game against a Talon. His q and r gives you so much utility, the passive is extremely good for kiting. And Talon has been nerfed.

BellowsApr 1, 20161 votes

that ult isnt enough and its a waste to blow it to escape and you cant kite when he blinks to your inner circle.

Michael SykesApr 1, 20161 votes

yes, his blink is annoying. But it depends on your playstyle, he SHOULD counter immobile carries. Just play safe, he can't towerdive you when you are full, and Aurelion Sol has the ability to farm under tower or stay near to it. Be sure that the other lanes are safe when he is missing, then you will make his life hard af

BellowsApr 1, 20162 votes

and then at 10min him and alistar from bot lane will just turret dive me and i will be extra useless when talon gets in my "weakzone" even under my own damn turret.

Michael SykesApr 2, 20162 votes

Stun them before they do this. Go back to the tier-2-turret or ping for help. And use your waveclear to ensure that they can't take the tower. This are just suggestions and I am sure that there are some ways to win against him. Just stay motivated and use your mid-lategame utility

Yosuke ApperuApr 1, 20161 votes

Have you ever seen talon vs vlad? Talon absolutely HAS to roam.

BellowsApr 1, 20161 votes

not necessarily. Its just a difficult lane.

Yosuke ApperuApr 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

not necessarily. Its just a difficult lane.

I've watched really high elos play the lane and the talon roams every time i've seen it.

QuephaApr 1, 20161 votes

That's a problem with Talon, not Aurelion Sol. He's balanced around having a combo that always hits.

BellowsApr 1, 20161 votes

How? having double tap will only give him and edge to people countering him too hard, other mages will be unaffect at range with this detail.

QuephaApr 1, 20163 votes

{quoted}

How? having double tap will only give him and edge to people countering him too hard, other mages will be unaffect at range with this detail.

It would make Talon worthless and Zed and Diana and every assassin in the game and every melee diver, tank, and juggernaut Aurelion's one major weakness is getting within his orbits and you want to throw it out the window because of one bad matchup.

BellowsApr 1, 20161 votes

IT WOULD NOT HAHAHA! Talon and the others you mentioned would have to bait out the stun and dodge, not that hard of a stun to dodge in lane, and then go in. Even if they go in first and i stun them, not enough time to line up and trade damage, would have to run and then they have ten seconds to go back in, longer since thats max rank cd and I doubt it would be max rank until late laning phase.

Theres a difference between weakness and having your potential drop to about 0.

QuephaApr 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Talon and the others you mentioned would have to bait out the stun and dodge.

And then they have to bait out the ult and then they have to bait out the stun again and then they have to bait out the flash and then they have to bait out the stun again

He already has ult and summoners to accomplish what you want him to do when he messes up, adding a normal ability on top of that has a compounding effect that is way more imbalancing than you realize.

BellowsApr 1, 20161 votes

ok so what other champ is as vulnerable in the game in the way that his potential drops to 0 with no way to peel but to ult or waste sums? NONE. Riot will give him double tap q cause they will realize he needs it.

AurelionSol

QuephaApr 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

ok so what other champ is as vulnerable in the game in the way that his potential drops to 0 with no way to peel but to ult or waste sums? NONE. Riot will give him double tap q cause they will realize he needs it.

Ashe Varus Kog'maw and twitch don't even have self-peel on ult Cassiopeia Karthus Ryze Orianna Teemo

Champions have been surviving without self-peel for a long time.

Riot is actually nerfing Aurelion Sol next patch, his Q and ult specifically, because he's turning out to be more effective in-game than they expected.

BellowsApr 1, 20161 votes

yaaaah however you missed the fact that none of those champions lose 100% effectiveness as clsoe rangs. Orianna's autos hurt, karthus's e was made for close combat. I mean come on. Ryze been nerfed out the wazoo has one of the curret lowest winrates now (go figure) in the mid lane (corki has best winrate if you were wondering). The point is that none of them lose 100% effectiveness. if Sol doesnt have an ult to waste, gg.

AurelionSol I'm going to throw a star at you now, good luck

QuephaApr 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

yaaaah however you missed the fact that none of those champions lose 100% effectiveness as clsoe rangs. Orianna's autos hurt, karthus's e was made for close combat. I mean come on. Ryze been nerfed out the wazoo has one of the curret lowest winrates now (go figure) in the mid lane (corki has best winrate if you were wondering). The point is that none of them lose 100% effectiveness. if Sol doesnt have an ult to waste, gg.

I'm going to throw a star at you now, good luck

Oh gosh I didn't realize that Aurelion Sol didn't have auto attacks.

And again, Aurelion Sol sure does have an awfully high winrate if he were really as easy to shut down as you claim.

BellowsApr 1, 20161 votes

OMFG YES, how could i forget the aa's of a mage whos gonna get massively out traded my the assassins and die if he chose to stay and aa, excuse me, im so sry.

His winrate so hight cause people are finally catching on to how to play aginst him..... in the cheapest of no retaliation ways.

And now we have looped back to the original argument. :/

QuephaApr 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

OMFG YES, how could i forget the aa's of a mage whos gonna get massively out traded my the assassins and die if he chose to stay and aa, excuse me, im so sry.

His winrate so hight cause people are finally catching on to how to play aginst him..... in the cheapest of no retaliation ways.

And now we have looped back to the original argument. :/

So for Aurelion Sol his auto attacks don't count because the assassin will kill him first, but for the 8 examples I gave, all those champions will easily out-burst a Zed, Talon, or Fizz?

If Sol's winrate is high because people don't know how to play against him, then why has his winrate been going up since his release? it seems more likely he's straight up strong and the burden is more on his players to learn how to use him properly.

BellowsApr 1, 20161 votes

they could, have you seen tide-turning oriana ults? I PLAY ORIANNA and i've beaten plenty of zeds in the past. The problem is not how that they can fend off champs like zed and fizz off well, but rather that they have a reason chance for outplay. They dont have to just attempting to run and take everything to the face. The can fight, Sol can't fihgt at that point.

QuephaApr 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

they could, have you seen tide-turning oriana ults? I PLAY ORIANNA and i've beaten plenty of zeds in the past. The problem is not how that they can fend off champs like zed and fizz off well, but rather that they have a reason chance for outplay. They dont have to just attempting to run and take everything to the face. The can fight, Sol can't fihgt at that point.

Why is Orianna allowed to use her ult against an assassin but Aurelion Sol is not? That seems like a pretty drastic handicap.

QuephaApr 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

particularly because if she ults she has a much better kit to go full ham and win a fight.

Orianna can't follow up her ult with another piece of hard cc, and she rarely builds as tanky as an Aurelion Sol can. I would say you have their positions in this situation completely reversed.

Spartan SolApr 1, 20161 votes

the thing your not realizing is if you buff sol. he will be broken. he already stomps most of his losing lanes. talon IS the counter to most mages. if he couldnt do his job he might as well be erased. there are champs who hard counter others thats the beauty of counterpicks.. stop first picking a.sol without knowing who your laning against its that simple.. you don't first pick kassadin or swain for those exact same reasons they have hard counters they make them useless. It's talon's job to erase immobile mages like a.sol all you can do vs him is play safe and hold your ult. you can do this thing called roaming since a.sol is prob the best roamer in the game now thanks to his E.

BellowsApr 1, 20161 votes

issue is, you should be able (and riot has said this in the past) pick any champion for the intend role and have decent chance of being able to counter play your own counters. Its called balance. That's true balance. And his winrate is dropping now that hes been out for a week, God I wish people would stop comparing to early winrates...

QuephaApr 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

issue is, you should be able (and riot has said this in the past) pick any champion for the intend role and have decent chance of being able to counter play your own counters. Its called balance. That's true balance. And his winrate is dropping now that hes been out for a week, God I wish people would stop comparing to early winrates...

And Talon is always really good in his good matchups while being really bad in his bad matchups because his kit has very little counterplay, which is why people say that Talon is a problem while Aurelion Sol is fine.

BellowsApr 1, 20161 votes

see, I am flexible on the topic that talon is jsut broken as shitt, but it irks me when other mages have a chance when jumped and all sol can do is take it to the face. He's like heimer without as much campiness and less burst. He deserves the double tap q like anivia, just as all other supposedly immobile champs that have face stuns and cc

QuephaApr 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

and all sol can do is take it to the face not counting ult, summoners, and the actions of their teammates which a number of other champions also have to rely on when in that situation.

Don't worry, I fixed it for you.

BellowsApr 1, 20161 votes

so basically, like you JUST said, what all other have in the situation..... minus their cc to the face. Still lacking what others have. Summoners and ult take to long to use, the gap for saftey is way too long where as the toher immobile mages have them every5-8 seconds.... SOLS STUN IS EVEN 10 SECONDS LONG.

QuephaApr 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

so basically, like you JUST said, what all other have in the situation..... minus their cc to the face. Still lacking what others have. Summoners and ult take to long to use, the gap for saftey is way too long where as the toher immobile mages have them every5-8 seconds.... SOLS STUN IS EVEN 10 SECONDS LONG.

Ashe, Varus, Kog'maw, Twitch, Cassiopeia, Karthus, Orianna, Teemo have hard cc to the face without their ults? Wow, this is new information to me! I rather like playing Twitch so please tell me what button I'm supposed to press when a Talon jumps on me that will keep him from killing me.

BellowsApr 1, 20161 votes

LOLOLOL why are you talkin adcs? they are not designed to have extra utlility regardless if they are being played in other lanes right now, jsut cause their meta favors them so highly right now. Cass and Karthus has targeted slows they can palce anywhere to zone them out. Cass for example can ult and go batshitt crazy with her other abilities because she is NOT so limited. Karthus too. Turns on E and walls, zoned right off or risk dying to karthus. Thats what usually happens.

QuephaApr 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

LOLOLOL why are you talkin adcs? they are not designed to have extra utlility regardless if they are being played in other lanes right now, jsut cause their meta favors them so highly right now. Cass and Karthus has targeted slows they can palce anywhere to zone them out. Cass for example can ult and go batshitt crazy with her other abilities because she is NOT so limited. Karthus too. Turns on E and walls, zoned right off or risk dying to karthus. Thats what usually happens.

Cass's W is targeted? I'm learning so much about League of Legends today! I could swear it was an incredibly slowly expanding area that applies a slow of a similar strength to a paper fan being used to ward off an approaching 60 mile an hour semi-truck.

I also like how you can't talk about other champions with similar weaknesses for more than 3 sentences without talking about how they use their ULT to turn around an assassination attempt.

So the next time you play Aurelion Sol, just use your ULT exactly like Cass does so you can start kiting with your Rylai's slow and then you too can discover why Aurelion Sol deserves the nerfs he's going to eat next patch.

Spartan SolApr 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

issue is, you should be able (and riot has said this in the past) pick any champion for the intend role and have decent chance of being able to counter play your own counters. Its called balance. That's true balance. And his winrate is dropping now that hes been out for a week, God I wish people would stop comparing to early winrates...

his winrate isnt dropping.. its been steady for the last 3 days. the thing a.sol already have a way to counter play talon.. HOLD YOUR ULT. once he jumps to you Hit R and Q all of a sudden talon is now stunned in your power zone. talon isnt tanky your full combo plus a rotation or 2 of orbs+ AA's will kill him easily.. when you dont have ult play safe and sit back and farm with Active W. just because you cant win vs him doesnt mean others cant.. cus obviously they are doing fine since hes sitting about 50% winrate.

DREADN0UGHTApr 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It's toxic and he needs double tap Q like anivia to have a chance to counter play talon.skilled).

Wait, you mean that you have to double tap a single key in order to have a chance at counterplaying a Talon? Wow that really does suck...

BellowsApr 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Wait, you mean that you have to double tap a single key in order to have a chance at counterplaying a Talon? Wow that really does suck...

It does. Considering his stun is the only thing talon has to fear, and that which is the only thing that could give him leverage in his kit. Sarcasm not welcome, bring something constructive pls.

DREADN0UGHTApr 1, 20162 votes

Your username is xAurelionxSOLx, so what I'm seeing here is a Sol main who complains that his favorite champ can't have easy counterplay options vs that one specific champion.

In league, like most other mobas, champs have hard counters, and counter other champs. Talon might counter Sol, but you have a stun Q, you know that Talon's E sets him behind you. You know your ult is a skill shot knockback. Use that knowledge to your advantage. I love playing Gnar top lane. I know Riven, Jarvan and Renekton can shit on me, and I know what NOT to do when matched against them. I don't come on boards to complain about being countered.

And forgive the sarcasm, its something I can't get away from.