Rylais is balanced, Frozen Mallet is Not.

Bellows·Sep 27, 2016·34 votes·2,421 views

Reason being, Rylais usually allows for skill shots to be a tad easier to land. Frozen mallet allows you to stick to the enemy but by the use of an Auto Attack that locks on and is completely broken on 3 hit passive champs. Seriously, Rylais is no where near as broken as people make it out to be. Gives total burst mages minute utility, thats why you buy items, sometimes, its for utility.

Frozen mallet, takes that to far IMHO, providing too much for auto attack based fighters.

72 Comments

Genuwhine36Sep 27, 201637 votes

aur sol main saying rylais isnt broken LUL

the weeabooSep 27, 20164 votes

{quoted}

aur sol main saying rylais isnt broken LUL

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

So true

PalPlaysSep 27, 20163 votes

It really isn't. Just because an item is good on a champion doesn't mean that it's overpowered. The same goes for Frozen Mallet, though the problem lies with the Tank Yasuos of the world who were designed to deal damage and were given movement to account for the resulting squishy build. When built tank, the weaknesses that traditionally non-tank champions were designed around disappear (Yasuo being squishy, Ekko being intended to survive on the edge of a fight). That is where most (not all) of people's issues with the two items come from. Other than a select few champions, Rylai's is procced by ABILITIES, meaning they just put an ability on cooldown in order to slow you. Unless they are DoTs, this means that there WILL be some downtime between the application of slows. Frozen Mallet, on the other hand, is essentially permaslow. There is no downtime for the slow once applied, especially on ranged champions like Gnar. In the end, Rylai's is balanced, though a few champions are required to be designed with it specifically in mind (Vladimir, Swain, Viktor, Brand). Frozen Mallet is NOT overpowered, but the champions who abuse it all too well are indicative of how they were designed without any consideration for the item due to how bad it has been for years. It suffered a TERRIBLE build path for years, but now that it's been fixed, it has become clear that the game was not designed with it in mind.

What Is SmiteSep 27, 201612 votes

Rylai's isn't broken, however some classification of abilities hit should not be getting the strong slows from it such as: Azir Soldier's and Zyra plants (40% slow)

Hell I would be glad if they made mallet a melee only item to prevent ADC top laners like Vayne from abusing it and they could even take it to where only Mega Gnar can proc it if he buys the item

RalanrSep 27, 20163 votes

I'm starting to wonder if Gnar was a good idea since every idea to nerf ADC's abusing bruiser items is an indirect nerf to him.

CremepieSep 27, 20161 votes

Imo Gnar is great champion, that is super annoying only because of one item that makes him a bit too strong against melee laners. item 3022 Edit: Luckliy this item is expensive and skirmishers/divers have a good chance to beat him in lane before its completion with their dashes

notmarkedSep 27, 20163 votes

{quoted}

aur sol main saying rylais isnt broken LUL

/thread

oSEXYPLATYPUSoSep 27, 201618 votes

item 3022 30 ad item 3116 100 ap

yep rylais is balanced

TyrekGoldenspearSep 27, 20163 votes

Hey that Scepter makes it easy to land those Thresh hooks yo! XD

foristSep 27, 201614 votes

Both items are too strong. Saying rylais gives "minute utility" is a massive understatement. In general, being able to add utility to a champion's kit that is balanced around limited utility will never be balanced.

Vistha KaiSep 27, 20161 votes

That can be said about pretty much every item with an active.

foristSep 28, 20162 votes

Not necessarily, most items with actives have cool-downs which give proper windows in which to exploit. Rylai's and mallet both are lacking in counter-play because they add utility without any built-in restrictions on the passive component. These items are only gated by the individual champion's spell cool-downs and/or attack speed stats.

SalronSep 27, 201612 votes

Meanwhile Targetted spells + Rylais Kek

XeruonSep 27, 20161 votes

inb4 Downvotes because you're a Yas main.

BesthunterjkSep 27, 20169 votes

"xAurelionSolx" "Rylas is balanced"

LOL

AHeroNamedHawkeSep 27, 20168 votes

"Muh Rylais skillshot"

Azir Cassiopeia AurelionSol Evelynn Elise etc

INoble KnightISep 27, 20162 votes

Azir needs it for reliable damage from soldiers. Cass needs it to kite effectively. Brand needs it to land skill shots more easily. Sol needs it to kite effectively. Eve is just a bitch. Elise is just a spider bitch. Most of the mages that get Rylai's is so they can actually kite or apply damage more easily cause they are usually slow moving and simply can not land hits against the highly mobile champs.

AHeroNamedHawkeSep 27, 20167 votes

[{quoted}](name=INoble KnightI,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R4WHfqaE,comment-id=000e0000,timestamp=2016-09-27T07:19:14.166+0000)

Azir needs it for reliable damage from soldiers. Cass needs it to kite effectively. Brand needs it to land skill shots more easily. Sol needs it to kite effectively. Eve is just a bitch. Elise is just a spider bitch. Most of the mages that get Rylai's is so they can actually kite or apply damage more easily cause they are usually slow moving and simply can not land hits against the highly mobile champs.

Except it breaks their entire design

Lets go with Azir for the primary example. His kit is built around positioning his soldiers, and they (used to) do insane amounts of sustained damage. If you stood in that zone you would die, so you had to move out.

That's all well and good until Rylai's is involved, and suddenly you're permaslowed for 40% as soon as you enter his zone, and cannot effectively position against his soldiers. By the time you leave their range he's moved them again, and has full uptime on you.

Now because his uptime is permanent, his soldiers and Q damage had to be nerfed extremely hard, because Rylai's gives a ridiculous amount of control over enemy positioning. Old Vlad with and without Rylais was a difference of night and day, Azir is no different.

DracocrashSep 27, 20163 votes

and frozen mallets is bought so that bruisers dont get kited easily. Whats your point?

INoble KnightISep 27, 20161 votes

That Rylai's is needed for some mages just like Mallet is needed for some. You kinda restated my point.

Sexy Jack RabbitSep 27, 20162 votes

I like how your argument for Elise and Eve is non-existent. Cass doesn't need help kiting, and any good brand should not require Rylai's. You're stupidly bias and just plain stupid.

INoble KnightISep 27, 20161 votes

I was agreeing on the Elsie and Eve part hence why I called them a bitch. Actually with how easy it is for a lot of champs to build MS into their kits Rylai's is need to slow them down. Plus don't forget the mobility built into a lot of newer champs. Rylai's is very needed. Also thanks for just insulting me instead of actually countering my points. It shows how you have nothing to actually counter with.

DracocrashSep 27, 20168 votes

"rylies is balanced"

Riot has admitted it is a problematic item. Rylies is the reason azir is gutted.

Rylies is as problematic as frozen mallet.

Vistha KaiSep 27, 20161 votes

Azir is gutted, because he deserved it and Riot didn't bother to actually balance him.

VeraskaSep 27, 20166 votes

Both are toxic as hell

Maximum MordeSep 27, 20165 votes

It's pretty much in the same boat as Frozen Mallet where on some champs it's fine, and on others it's not.

afk soon btwSep 27, 20165 votes

nice try ASol Main

Akali is SO HOTSep 27, 20165 votes

Most champions don't even buy Ryalis for the passive that part is just icing on the cake. The stats it gives for how much it costs is just dumb. Getting a huge ass slow on your abilities in addition to all those stats makes it even better. It is by no means balanced.

Sexy Jack RabbitSep 27, 20161 votes

Literally all champions who buy Rylai's, but it for the slow. That is unless you don't understand itemization. If I want Tanky AP, I am going to buy Liandry's. The 80 AP, 15 Magic Pen and 3% Life burn do more damage then the 100 AP provided by Rylai's.

Akali is SO HOTSep 27, 20162 votes

Liandries sucks on every mage that doesn't have low cooldown dots and even then Rylais is still a really good buy over it in a lot of situations. Can't even remember the last time I saw Liandries bought in a game. Even Anivia and Lissandra buy Rylai's because of the broken stats. Ever since they buffed the shit out of Rylai's passive it's basically been one of the best items in the game.

Critmaster GarenSep 27, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R4WHfqaE,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2016-09-27T03:48:01.616+0000)

Most champions don't even buy Ryalis for the passive that part is just icing on the cake. The stats it gives for how much it costs is just dumb. Getting a huge ass slow on your abilities in addition to all those stats makes it even better. It is by no means balanced.

the stats arent the problem.

champions like Rumble should have access to decent ap/hp itemization. the real issue with the thing is its passive, and nothing else. since they buffed it, and nerfed swifties, its toxic.

item 3116 is either a bandaid for terrible champion kits like AurelionSol (and lets not kid ourselves, his kit is garbage). or its broken on ranged champions with dot abilities who can create permaslows with it.

AnagsSep 27, 20163 votes

If frozen mallet was that great more champs would actually use it.

It is basically just annoying on a couple champs who just need the slow and don't really lose damage by purchasing it.

Maybe it shouldnt be as good for ranged champs but I would say Rylais is the better item because you don't lose out on much by buying it.

And casters can easily chain the slow. Cooldowns are low enough that isn't a problem for anyone really.

TheWarlord101Sep 27, 20162 votes

Frozen mallet has a bad balance history , that being said rylize doesn't have as bad a history(looks at mallet gnar)

PalPlaysSep 27, 20165 votes

There's something worse; I once accidentally locked in Ashe support (thought I was ADC) back when slows stacked.

I built Frozen Mallet, Black Cleaver, then Runaan's. At one point I sniped our red buff from the enemy Volibear then shot him while he was going around the corner of the camp. I rounded that corner to find that he was still there...and wasn't going anywhere....because my slows were practically rooting him.

dapositivevikingSep 27, 20162 votes

red buff q slow and frozen mallet? you absolute monster

Hardstuck G4Sep 27, 20162 votes

Slows don't stack anymore, I thought? As far as I remember, only the strongest slow applies.

Vistha KaiSep 27, 20161 votes

Don't tell him. He may feel bad about wasting so much gold.

PalPlaysOct 11, 20161 votes

I think you missed the part where I said "back when slows stacked."

PalPlaysSep 27, 20162 votes

Wait...so you're saying that Frozen Mallet + Black Cleaver + ZZ'Rots is unhealthy for the game?

The DeckownerSep 27, 20162 votes

Rylais feels unfair on certain champions, moostly due to rito spaghetti coding, for example Azir's soilders and Zyra's plants are clearly multitarget/aoe damage, yet it applies for single target slow effect.

CalabokSep 27, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R4WHfqaE,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2016-09-27T03:29:04.500+0000)

Rylais feels unfair on certain champions, moostly due to rito spaghetti coding, for example Azir's soilders and Zyra's plants are clearly multitarget/aoe damage, yet it applies for single target slow effect.

no read what it does again.

The GovernerSep 27, 20162 votes

Multi-hit means an ability that can hit the same target multiple times, not an ability that hits multiple targets.

Also, both single-target and AOE spell damage slow for 40%. The difference here is the duration (single-target damage slows for 1.5 seconds and AOE damage slows for 1 second). Whether Zyra's plants and Azir's solders should be coded as pets or not is arguable, though clearly they are not. I think Riot has mentioned somewhere that there are reasons for Zyra's plants to not be coded as pets (I forgot the exact context however).

ItsOrvalSep 27, 20162 votes

Funniest thing ive read today that has more upvotes than downvotes

KetiSep 27, 20162 votes

The horror of permaslow malz e

FalconPawwwwnchSep 27, 20162 votes

Uh no, Rylai's is worse

You can apply rylai's from much longer range than mallet for many cases You can apply rylai's in an aoe for the same % slow, and in some abuses cases like Viktor, you can keep the slow applied for much longer without doing anything

ForgiveColourSep 27, 20162 votes

Muh skillshot as syndra casually one shots you with rylais without landing any q

hhaavviikkSep 27, 20161 votes

all rylais and frozen mallet do is punish immobile champions even more, got a dash? you got the possibility of escaping them, got not a single mobility spell? might as well go make a sandwich cuz you won't escape

WoonStruckOct 11, 20161 votes

It wasn't really an issue in the past when the large majority of champions were immobile.

The amount of fluid mobility they've added to the game is what's ruining it. Imagine if Gnar didn't have mobility. All of a sudden, FM on him is only as 'oppressive' as it is on Vayne. After you remove his retarded passive attackspeed, at least. hint hint, Riot