Two things seriously bother me about Vlad's recent return to popularity.

Over Innsmouth·Mar 19, 2017·89 votes·5,555 views

Stupid meta sheep who flock to whatever the pros play, with no idea how to properly utilize them or even why they're being played.
He's popular again for the same reason as when he last made an appearance up in the professional scene: his bloody ult.

Riot, please, if you find yourself looking at Vladimir again, take a look at his ult and how it functions, rather than slashing the values on his basic skills as you did before. Maybe the AoE % damage amp is too difficult a mechanic to balance altogether, and warrants scrapping. A while ago Reav3 mentioned that he'd like the VGU team to tackle Vlad someday, but that was far into the future, maybe he needs a small Shyvana-level rework to Tides him over until that day comes?

If his ult is the reason that he's such a bipolar Champion depending on what level of the game you play, that's what needs to be looked at.

96 Comments

Tyrone LannisterMar 19, 201732 votes

Vlad has cursed Riot ever since he was created. I remember them saying that they wished he was never created. Let that sink in

Over InnsmouthMar 19, 201777 votes

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/let-that-sink-in-tumblr.jpg

MelledoneusMar 19, 201732 votes

http://i.imgur.com/3m8k0g3.jpg?noredirect

Legacy HydralphaMar 19, 201725 votes

As much as I'd love to see Vlad in a healthier spot, depending on Riot's opinion of him into pro play Vlad might end up being the next Shen: Nerfed where he shouldn't be nerfed and ends up being in a worse spot than he should be.

Considering how well I've seen mini-reworks do, Vlad might be a great candidate for one. Let's just see how Rek'Sai's update performs.

DuskDaUmbreonMar 19, 201720 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tides of Blood,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PXBtjVxx,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-03-19T13:39:38.627+0000)

...his bloody ult.

Upvoted for that pun alone.

I do agree that meta sheep are one of the biggest problems, however. It ends up getting games lost because someone thought they were OP, and either wasted a ban on them, or picked them and fed to insanity, throwing the statistics way off, and leading to obnoxious circle-jerking on the boards...

Over InnsmouthMar 19, 20171 votes

Why cant Aurelion Sol be sheeped on? I love Aurelion Sol.

DuskDaUmbreonMar 19, 20173 votes

¿???? Is confused in Spanish

What does the star dragon have to do with this…?

Am I just retarded, and missing the world's most obvious joke…?

Over InnsmouthMar 19, 20172 votes

No, I just like Aurelion Sol.

5000000000000000Mar 19, 20175 votes

Probably because his skill floor is so high.

You can be trash Ryze and still be okay (like using only E-Q and no QWEQ or EWQ or QWEQEWQQWQWQWQQ or whatever), but if you're trash ASol you're gonna be nothing.

God RaijinMar 19, 20176 votes

I'd disagree on the part about ryze, His winrate is trash and it's pretty much always been trash ever since this rendition of the champion has existed. It honestly seems like hes only actually good at really high levels of play.

Sagan ForeverMar 20, 20172 votes

Ryze has an average win rate of 39 to 41%. in his first 25 games on average has a 28% win rate on average. So he has no skill floor, but his win rate goes from 28% to 48%from a new player to an expert at ryze.

GayFluffyUnicornMar 21, 20172 votes

Lol have you ever played ryze? If you are trash your team plays 4v6. Ori, Syndra or any other meta midlaner is 100x more valuable on a bad player than a bad ryze. You either snowball with him and know how to do it, position in teamfights etc. or you end up being deadweight. And right now ryze is absolutely destroyed. 38% winrate.

RavenMagusMar 19, 20172 votes

Aurelion Sol probably has the highest skill floor of any champion in league. He takes a while to get used to just his basic patterns.

So even when someone pulls him out and does well in LCS (...or, more likely, causes him to be disabled to yet another visual bug...), meta sheep can't exactly just start playing him. He doesn't click for a lot of people.

SteelMankindMar 19, 201713 votes

His mechanics are pretty average difficulty, actually. Certainly way easier than Taliyah Azir Gangplank . What makes him hard are a few things:

He has to adapt an unusual macro playstyle that no other champion in the game has to the same degree (shove and roam)
The first three levels are played in an extremely specific and unintuitive way, and deviating from it even the slightest is very punishing AND unclear what went wrong
He is free food for every melee champion in the game with a gap closer. Seriously. Without ult, he has to use for a chance to get away.
People expect him to be somewhat tanky due to his status as a battle mage, but he really isn't. He builds tanky AP items out of necessity; his base defensive stats are rather poor.
The whole "grow a Q into a giant stunfield" may be the largest noobtrap Riot ever conceived. There's almost never a situation where using Q normally isn't the best option, but since this feature was celebrated so much at his release, everyone thinks that playing means flying into the enemy team with a bigass star and immediately dying because you're a squishy mage with no ways of avoiding damage.

EDIT: Not really contributing to high skill floor as its an advanced tech, but some of the things really good Sol players do are so bizarre. For instance, moving in clockwise circles around your target = higher star DPS. Yup.

MonkeyMadnessMar 19, 20171 votes

idk, it's pretty OP when you charge out of base with homeguards and other movespeed items and hit the w and fly into the enemy base with a star that takes up the entire screen thus forcing them to scatter or take a 5 man stun with a pretty decent chunk of damage. Obviously situational, but still can be used to devastating effect if done properly.

RavenMagusMar 19, 20174 votes

You have to start that move well over 20 seconds or so in advance of actually arriving. It's like an Ashe arrow that moves several times slower than normal. So you need either godlike prediction to know the enemy team's still going to be there, or you have to be incredibly lucky. Essentially, the stars have to align for it to actually work.

SteelMankindMar 19, 20175 votes

Its also pretty OP when Ekko takes top turret, TPs bot and finishes bot turret, Q's, ults back top, and steals Baron, Elder Dragon, and gets a pentakill all with the return Q projectile

Hyperbole aside, the Q + E combo on Sol is like E into W with Ezreal. Rarely a good idea, and to make it worse, Riot showcased this feature at the champion's launch.

Big LincolnMar 19, 20178 votes

probably wouldn't be an issue even with that power if it wasn't instant

AhristocatsMar 19, 20177 votes

no clue why you're being downvoted

vlad ult is a huge amount of power without counterplay enemies cannot do anything to avoid damage amp for a long time

and it has 700 range and 450 aoe and lasts 4 seconds

MeritasMar 19, 20174 votes

Don't give Riot any weird ideas, Vlad doesn't need more "counterplay". They should either scrap the ult alltogether or not bother at all.

AbyssphereMar 21, 20171 votes

The damage amp has exactly as much counterplay as the damage it amplifies, in addition to being very, very vaguely dodgeable. Vlad ult's damage amp is only concerning in its lack of counterplay if the damage your team is doing lacks counterplay itself.

An Undead bratMar 19, 20171 votes

That's... actually a good idea. Removes the epicness but Rito should come with an idea to make it epic in a different way.

Big LincolnMar 19, 20171 votes

I'm a big fan of super-telegraphed but incredibly punishing moves

It's part of what I love about juggernauts and would probably play mages if we had one that was like that

An Undead bratMar 19, 20171 votes

AurelionSol does not appeal to you?

Big LincolnMar 19, 20171 votes

I used to play him a lot (and really well, for being gold) but lately he hasn't been doing it for me

he doesn't have the same sense of satisfaction that I've come to need

An Undead bratMar 19, 20171 votes

I understand that - also in the meta of AD assassins I doubt there is i character that suffers more.

I'd recommend you Zyra as I main her, her spells are all slow and delayed and hit like a truck, but I'm not sure she'd fulfill your fantasy.

How 'bout Karthus ?

Big LincolnMar 19, 20171 votes

of the mages I used to play Karthus AurelionSol Viktor Veigar Fiddlesticks Mordekaiser

i can't play karthus, viktor, or fiddle consistently anymore -- i either carry hard or feed from minute 3

i also hate viktor's new rework with a passion, he's the wrong kind of delayed spells. kind of a weird opinion to have but I preferred the first rework by a massive margin, but what I REALLY want is a return to the burn damage on his original laser upgrade

i like veigar a lot but I can never play him more than a couple games before I get bored

and I've bitched about mordekaiser enough so i won't write a lot

and i don't like any of the rest

An Undead bratMar 19, 20171 votes

I did not play back then to know about the burning-laser Viktor, so I can't speak to that opinion, but understand the rest.

I just hope Swain gets a VGU that makes him more strategic, then we migh enjoy him both...

Big LincolnMar 19, 20177 votes

I'd like them to combine it, rather

instead of just being free extra damage, make it like a lasting burn zone so that he can set up these areas you can't walk into with his E and W

I've always liked Viktor better when he was a strong control mage, it felt more thoughtful and deliberate. This new Viktor is only good for dumping his entire rotation on whoever's he close to. i hate it

MelledoneusMar 19, 20177 votes

Shen Welcome to the LCS hell club.

General Esdeath Mar 19, 20174 votes

YEAH BUT SHEN NEEDS NERFS, OMG HIS SHIELD IS FOR 250 THAT'S LIKE 3 AUTO ATTACKS. HOW DO I COUNTER THAT? AND HIS TAUNT OMG SO EASY TO HIT, UNLIKE Rammus HIS IS HARD TO GET OFF

MelledoneusMar 19, 20173 votes

Careful. Your sarcasm isn't obvious enough.

General Esdeath Mar 19, 20173 votes

UHHHH

NERF GALIO OP

MelledoneusMar 19, 20175 votes

You thought you doused that fire with water, but you grabbed the can of gasoline by mistake.

General Esdeath Mar 19, 20173 votes

[intense sweating]

BUFF LETHALITY

MelledoneusMar 19, 20174 votes

ABANDON THREAD.

EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF!

thomasb1215Mar 19, 20175 votes

I don't understand why this is the new circlejerk topic for gameplay. Vlad's pick rate has risen by 1% and you're acting like he's in every one of your games now.

LauchmelderMar 19, 20177 votes

I would be surprised if Vlad wasn't in the majority of OPs games, because Tides of Blood is a Vlad main.

Over InnsmouthMar 19, 20177 votes

Shit, you're onto me.

Sahn UzalMar 20, 20172 votes

"Vlad main" :^)

Over InnsmouthMar 20, 20173 votes

*Vladimain.

General Esdeath Mar 19, 20173 votes

1% is too much for Riot :^)

AckelopeMar 19, 20173 votes

He's popular again for the same reason as when he last made an appearance up in the professional scene: his bloody ult.

but isn't everything about Vlad bloody?

TurquoiseYoshiMar 19, 20171 votes

Well, it's a variety of things. His ult is a big part of it, but he has solid lane presence from his bases and Crimson Rush, and his pool gives him major safety in lane as well as a very easy way to dive a back line in a fight. His ult is important, but I really can't call it the only reason.

Over InnsmouthMar 19, 20179 votes

His bases are garbage and you can literally see when his Rush is up. Pool has a 28 sec cd at rank 1. I defy you to find an all-in combo with a higher cd.

Theres only three players Vlad can actually dominate in lane. Gangplanks, Poppys, and morons who just let him use Crimson Rush on them.

YoungSirJ0eyMar 19, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tides of Blood,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PXBtjVxx,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2017-03-19T16:26:51.825+0000)

I defy you to find an all-in combo with a higher cd.

That's not even slightly what defy means. "Challenge" would be more appropriate.

SilmarilMar 19, 20174 votes

{quoted}

That's not even slightly what defy means. "Challenge" would be more appropriate.

It's an acceptable, but uncommon use of defy

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/defy?s=t

verb (used with object), defied, defying. 1. to challenge the power of; resist boldly or openly: to defy parental authority. 2. to offer effective resistance to: a fort that defies attack. 3. to challenge (a person) to do something deemed impossible: They defied him to dive off the bridge. 4. Archaic. to challenge to a combat or contest.

noun, plural defies. 5. a challenge; a defiance.

Over InnsmouthMar 19, 20175 votes

English is a stupid language, and I know my way around it.

GayFluffyUnicornMar 21, 20171 votes

vlad isn't too bad for GP. Only pretty annoying.