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@Riot, Mordekaiser rework is fine except...

Helmight··45 votes·3,431 views

So I love Mordekaiser. I also like a LOT of what the proposed Mordekaiser rework is bringing to the table. The new passive on his ultimate? Excellent news. The new Q? A lot more entertaining to use. E getting an AD ratio? Strange, especially since its bases got hit hard, but I can dig it.

However, the ONE thing about the Morde rework that I dislike is that he cannot self-cast his W. That alone guarantees that Mordekaiser can no longer function in his traditional solo lane role - the role that I prefer, and the role that he was almost exclusively played in prior to the rework. Having an ability that is literally uncastable without an ally is frankly a little silly on a champion who prefer solo lanes.

I don't think that Morde would be broken if he could use Harvesters of Sorrow on himself. On the contrary, it would allow people who prefer solo Morde to keep playing it and would still enable the duo lane Morde that you're trying to push. A simple compromise, don't you think?

36 Comments

KoKoboto3 votes

Yeah and thematically it makes no sense (Riot likes to use thematics a lot now) now Thresh being a support makes somewhat sense, he dosen't wanna kill he wants to torture and with his CC he does that making him a thematically sound support Mordekaiser wants to beat people up, he dosent need a "buddy" to help him but with this update he absolutely CANNOT do anything by himself which is lame

Helmight1 votes

I would argue against the fact that it makes no thematic sense. Morde's old lore made references to the fact that he resembled a general, which works perfectly well with playing in a duo lane. Not only does he command his support, he also uses the souls of enemies in battle. So I could see Morde on a duo lane. The problem is if he only works in a duo lane.

KoKoboto1 votes

{quoted}

I would argue against the fact that it makes no thematic sense. Morde's old lore made references to the fact that he resembled a general, which works perfectly well with playing in a duo lane. Not only does he command his support, he also uses the souls of enemies in battle. So I could see Morde on a duo lane. The problem is if he only works in a duo lane.

Yeah Mordekaiser is like the boss guy, but so is Gangplank! You don't see him often in duo lane hes more of a solo laner. You can play Gangplank duo lane but its more cool solo lane just how I think Mordekaiser is a more cool solo lane. I like the changes but forcing Mordekaiser to bring along a babysitter when he wants to do something is lame

Helmight1 votes

I agree with this whole-heartedly. Mordekaiser should be able to solo lane as effectively - or maybe a little less effectively - than he duo lanes. I don't think that's too unreasonable to ask, and I think if Morde was able to selfcast Harvester of Sorrow on himself it'd fix the problem.

Wolfeur3 votes

Gosh, the point is to enforce duo-lane Morde... He's expected to be picked instead of an regular ADC and bring a new concept in the meta.

Malicious Metal2 votes

{quoted}

Gosh, the point is to enforce duo-lane Morde... He's expected to be picked instead of an regular ADC and bring a new concept in the meta.

Than make it more attractive to take him bot instead of forcing him to.

Also gods have mercy if you ever get caught without an ally. 1v1ing with Morde on the PBE is impossible as long as you don't have your allies nearby as your MS is shitty without the shroud and you basically only have 3 abilities.

Wolfeur2 votes

Well, that's the kind of feedback he'd want, but people just refuse to play him duo-lane and don't give useful feedback.

Helmight1 votes

I'm fine with Riot incentivizing people to play Morde in a duo lane, but it should NEVER feel mandatory. Thresh was designed to be a support but people still play him in other roles. Same needs to be true with Morde, and right now he feels worthless in a solo lane.

Wolfeur1 votes

We're dealing with a major problem here: Morde cannot be viable AND healthy at the same time in solo lane.

Helmight1 votes

I don't believe that's true at all. I think there's a fine line of balance that Mordekaiser can straddle that makes him so. Like Pantheon, Morde is dependent on essentially harassing his opponent mercilessly until he can close out the kill with a sudden burst of damage. The counterplay is essentially that Morde is killing himself slowly while harassing, and that he shoves the lane at the same time. If Morde goes too aggro for a kill, he gets turned on and killed. If he pushes too hard, he gets killed - junglers are a thing.

The key to balance this is to make sure that Morde either has options to escape with, or to leave him as a risky pick for these situations.

Wolfeur1 votes

I don't believe that's true at all. I think there's a fine line of balance that Mordekaiser can straddle that makes him so.

Oh, cause you're a game developer and you know how to balance a game, now?

junglerboy162 votes

Right now Harvesters of Sorrow has 3 functions: Damage when near an ally and vice versa, movement speed towards that ally and vice versa, and a heal for self and that ally.

They could easily make solo lane Morde even a little more viable if they did this: Morde's W when self cast deals 50% damage, doesn't have access to the MS, and can't be reactivated for the heal. This is a buff to solo lane Morde in the slightest and also a big QoL Buff to duo lane Morde for whenever his support is roaming, since it allows him a slightly easier time stacking his shield and pushing a wave, but not enough to be broken or oppressive, without buffing his best case gameplay any.

Cloud Potato2 votes

I don't think that Morde is intended to leave bottom lane. An unpopular decision to be sure, but he has had a lot of balance problems in the past with snowballing, and having to outplay 2 champions is a lot harder than 1 (although you could hardly call Morde a champion who outplayed people when he was strong).

agbudar2 votes

W and movement speed nerf is what will gut morde away from anything niche that he might have filled in any meta.

to begin with morde has always and always will be an off meta pick.

Soulcrest2 votes

"Misery loves company" ?

This would work so well with Thresh in the bot lane though. Their abilities complement each other entirely. Thresh has the CC and lantern to help Morde stick to a target or escape ganks/engages. Morde has the damage (I hope) and the duo health sustain, which Trash lacks.

WiegrafOfValor2 votes

Good to see someone thinking the same way I do.

Jamaree1 votes

He can't self cast W in the rework, can he at least cast it on a minion?

Count Zubat1 votes

{quoted}

He can't self cast W in the rework, can he at least cast it on a minion?

nope, only on ally champion, not even on minions

Jamaree21 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord of Iwul,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PWN8XdEB,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-08-10T11:01:26.145+0000)

nope, only on ally champion, not even on minions

And now I understand this rework even less.

Malcha1 votes

You just summed up how everyone else feels about it =/

YumaS2Astral5 votes

{quoted}

And now I understand this rework even less.

It is to force people to play Morde bot instead of just making it a viable option without making Mordekaiser unplayable at solo lane.

That's why everyone is upset.

Ale non è male1 votes

Uh? Morde can cast his W on himself, it is just that even if you have selfcast activated you got to specify on who do you want to cast it and this can cause slight delay if you are not doing it properly

Terff5 votes

In the new rework he can't self cast W, it requires an ally champion or ghost.

Ale non è male1 votes

Is there going to be another rework on Morde? I have been out of town with internet for some days and I missed it in case, I was thinking they were talking about the last rework that is actually live on servers

Terff3 votes

yeah its out on the pbe and its not so good. He is basically forced into a duo lane. And he's more hybrid than AP mage.

Ale non è male1 votes

What are the other changes?

Terff3 votes
  • if he hits dragon within 10? seconds of his team killing it he can get dragon's ghost
  • He has an 0.6 AD ratio on E.
  • His Q is now a 3 hit ability. The first one deals a small amount of damage and each subsequent hit multiplies the damage by 2/2.25/2.5/2.75/3
  • His champion ghosts are weaker.
  • He gets full EXP from killing minions (has to last hit) even in duo lanes.
  • He no longer gets armor/mr on w and it can only be cast on allied champions/ghosts.
  • He can detonate his W to gain some health back.
  • His shield can't go below 25%
  • His max shield scales with HP.
Bijorn15 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PWN8XdEB,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-08-10T11:49:25.245+0000)

Uh? Morde can cast his W on himself, it is just that even if you have selfcast activated you got to specify on who do you want to cast it and this can cause slight delay if you are not doing it properly

Incorrect. This is the biggest reason why Mord players are really upset. His W will no longer be able to be used unless it is used on an ally champ (when he does this he gets the shield as well) or his ghost. So he can not use it on himself, and he can not use it on a minion. It is only usable on an ally champ, essentially making it so if he wants to use his full kit, he needs to be close to an ally.

GenghisEmo1 votes

Well, he is one broken champion that can go from 10% health to maybe 75% after using one ability since that Spell vamp so OP even when you think the guy was shut down. Yet, you can go a game do everything right, but somehow still not be as helpful as you could have been (but hey, chances are you are still walking away from the fight at least even though you did not perform well).

Champ seems "polar". You are either a Godless immortal killing machine that one shots (or two hits) enemy champs, or you are pretty much there for show.

I think the champ needs a complete rework, but so far i like the changes to W. This will make him a more "support" like champ, and i like Supps. As for the pet dragon, i am curious to see how that works out.

Additionally, even after the rework, he needs to not be allowed in Ranked so that no player just simply takes advantage of a possible OP champ at rework launch or to prevent people from using a new champion or reworked champ before they truly figure out the ins and outs of said champ (and while on the subject no new champ should be allowed in Ranked until the balance tweeks are done to prevent broken, op, or weak champs from ruining the experience or granting an unfair advantage, like make them playable in Ranked the patch following their release).

The Loveless1 votes

max e and q, do better damage, get higher shield without losing more health

0000

Kalista w passive and r are useless for the most part without someone around to help

Poske1 votes

Sorry but nothing about morde rework is fine except that he can control dragon .OH WAIT even thats not fine since it puts his ultimate in an awkward spot

Drakylon1 votes

You're pigeonholing a melee with next to zero engage potential into a lane dominated by either double ranged or ranged + melee partners, who likely both have some way to kite. Then you shove 80% of said melee's damage on a melee ability that requires him to hit three basic attacks, split his damage ratios between AD and AP, and force him to build half tank, lowering his damage potential to a fraction of that of a traditional ADC at nearly all points in the game (i.e. after 1 item).

And you expect people to still play him?

Helmight1 votes

To be fair, Riot gave him some things to level the playing field. He gains full xp from minion kills despite having a partner with him, and can last hit with E/regen with W to at least stay moderately healthy. Mordekaiser's presence in lane isn't going to be fantastic, but he at least has staying power.

Finally, if you pair Morde with a hard engage support like Thresh, his Q being split over three attacks isn't that big of a deal. He can also prime his Q on minions and at least get the hardest-hitting third attack when he goes to trade.

I don't understand why he needs AD ratios, but I do like Morde building at least off-tank. Dude's a giant metal suit of armor - it never made sense to me why he was intended to build so squishy.

Meeks0111 votes

Can he cast it on ghosts?

Helmight1 votes

The ghosts count as champions for all intents and purposes, so yes he can.

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