Anyone else disappointed with Gnar and Rek'Sai's VO?

Helmight·Nov 26, 2014·16 votes·3,228 views

The recent approach Riot's been taking with the VO of monstrous or otherwise non-human champions is immensely disappointing. Previously, even if a champion's lore explained nothing about them, you'd still be able to learn something of their past and how they act by listening to the VO. It added depth to the champion and really helped fill in gaps.

Having a VO that's nothing but growls means that your only source of information on the champion is through their lore, and as we've all found out, the new lore doesn't actually explain anything. Rek'Sai is a Voidborn, same as Cho'Gath and the others, but is portrayed as nothing more than a monster because of her VO.

Furthermore, even with the Institute of War being retconned out of existence, the whole concept of Summoners and summoning is still in existence. Therefore, the mental link that Summoners hold with their champions still exists, meaning that they SHOULD be able to understand what the champ is saying regardless of the language differences.

I understand the direction Riot's trying to take here, but it's unnecessary. Get Rek'Sai a real VO.

43 Comments

A Superb VillainNov 26, 20148 votes

I am not disappointed with the voice acting, per se. What I am disappointed in is that Riot chose to use it for this particular champion; Rek'Sai is the first, explicitly female, Void champion. Until Riot provides us with more lore or creates another, monstrous female champion from the Void - don't hold your breath - the Void Burrower is our only frame of reference.

I would have been deeply appreciative if Riot had provided her with some lines to shed greater insight on her purpose beyond simply being and exterminator's worst nightmare. She could have had taunts for our previous Void champions, establishing unknown details.

Some suspect Vel'Koz is similar to a drone from a hive, gathering information. What if Rek'Sai called him a stray who has wandered too far? She could have blatantly referenced Kog'Maw's "father", by recognizing our beloved biological artillery as one of his many children.

The voice acting is wonderful, that it is for a female champion is even better, but the timing is wanting.

SharjoNov 26, 20147 votes

She's an alien. If anything, it's bizarre that she's the only one who doesn't speak an intelligible language. This VO's cool because it allows for her behaviour to be explored in different ways; the sounds she makes and the body language she uses is completely different, but distinctions are key in her VO, she has clicks, screeches, growls and bellows to express her emotions and thoughts. Here's a thing as well. If a person doesn't speak a set language, and you read their mind, you still wouldn't understand it, because you're reading the mind of someone who doesn't speak or think in that set language. We can make the argument of magical translation but honestly that just seems dumb at this point. The Zerg of Starcraft are still amazing, varied and cool even though the majority of them don't speak a lick of ANY language except their primal Zerg language.

IMO the fact we don't know what she's thinking, and have to infer from her tone, what she's actually doing when she makes sounds, and her body language is a positive point and only strengthens her as a character.

Shadow MerchantNov 26, 201410 votes

She's an alien.

No she's not. Not really. She's from the void. Velkoz, Khazix, and Cho all speak English.

Here's a thing as well. If a person doesn't speak a set language, and you read their mind, you still wouldn't understand it, because you're reading the mind of someone who doesn't speak or think in that set language. We can make the argument of magical translation but honestly that just seems dumb at this point.

In a world where tentacled monsters show up out of nowhere to dissect and experiment on humans, where people are brought back from the dead as undead juggernauts, and where there is a man who will beat you to death with a giant door, THAT is dumb? Really?

IMO the fact we don't know what she's thinking, and have to infer from her tone, what she's actually doing when she makes sounds, and her body language is a positive point and only strengthens her as a character.

Op seems to be talking about how the Lore and VO can make a character. That even with bad lore the VO can give insights to the character. Take Kalista. Most of her stuff is all "blah blah vengeance betrayer blah blah". However she has one line where she talks about her past and remembering herself. That gives a MAJOR insight to the character. Now we won't be able to hear Rek'Sai talk about her kind or her past or even about herself. With the way the lore has been lately we're probably just going to get "blah blah sand wurm blah blah eats things" as her lore. That's it. So I can understand why a OP is against the unintelligible speaking and growling from the new champ.

HelmightNov 27, 20141 votes

Op seems to be talking about how the Lore and VO can make a character. That even with bad lore the VO can give insights to the character. Take Kalista. Most of her stuff is all "blah blah vengeance betrayer blah blah". However she has one line where she talks about her past and remembering herself. That gives a MAJOR insight to the character. Now we won't be able to hear Rek'Sai talk about her kind or her past or even about herself. With the way the lore has been lately we're probably just going to get "blah blah sand wurm blah blah eats things" as her lore. That's it. So I can understand why a OP is against the unintelligible speaking and growling from the new champ.

Basically this. Knowing that Rek'Sai's lore will give us no insight into who she is and what her motivations are makes the lack of VO even more frustrating than before. With Kalista, we can play the champion and find out kind of how she thinks, get hints about her past, etc., even if her lore tells us nothing. Rek'Sai and Gnar don't have that though, and that's a huge hit to their development and characterization.

The5lackerNov 26, 20145 votes

This is like complaining about Zerg Queens having feral screeches when Broodmothers can talk. Some of us like the unknowable monsters being unknowable.

King KowabungaNov 26, 20145 votes

I made a thread similar to this and got downvoted.

I was extremely excited to hear this champions voice and when I found out "she" (I use that term liberally since there is literally no way to tell what this champ is) was nothing but a collection of squeaks, clicks and squeals. II clicked on her voice over video and with 7 minutes worth I thought "Damn! There's a not to get out of this one! I can't wait to hear her taunt and interactions!" And then skipping through minute after minute hoping she says something really sucked.

Extremely dissapointed with this release, especially since it's probably the only "girl" monster we'll ever get from Riot again. Such a massive waste of potential.

Aria StormNov 26, 20145 votes

I was actually kinda really hoping she'd have like a Shyvana-type voice. (something kinda deep but still distinctly feminine.) Maybe with some sort of filter to make it echo-y or something. (Like Varus, Sona, etc)

It took them so long to release a female monster. They refer her as female and nothing that really proves she is in game. Gnar has a bit of both. He growls, says DEMOGLIO and several other words and you can clearly tell he's male. Change his voice slightly - make it slightly higher pitched, and you practically have an instant female. (Or a primitive yordle on helium)

It just doesn't sit right with me and her VO kinda made me lose any interest I had in her.

Best KhaZix VoidNov 26, 20144 votes

I was disappointed at first too, But I can definitely see why they chose not to give her a "voice". P.S. I don't think a mental link with a void champion is very healthy considering what little we know about them.

HelmightNov 26, 20143 votes

Regardless of whether or not it's healthy, it was done for years with Cho'Gath and Kog'Maw. While not recommended, it was obviously not unsafe enough for the Summoners to avoid making them champions.

BLU MedicNov 26, 20143 votes

But Kog'Maw is being assisted by Malzahar and Cho'Gath (and Kha'Zix and Vel'Koz kinda) wants everyone to think they control him. Cho'Gath in particular knows full well what's going on, as mentioned in his (probably soon to be retconned) lore.

Woe betide the day when Cho'Gath grows weary of the League.

HelmightNov 27, 20141 votes

Regardless, the fact that human magic is able to translate their thoughts should mean that it also applies to Rek'Sai. If the other Voidborn are permitting it, there's no reason why she shouldn't permit it as well.

Sneak DogNov 26, 20149 votes

I think you just uncovered Cho'Gaths plot? Have you heard his lines ("Your darkness beckons, summoner")? I mean, even his background states that he isn't really as held captive by the summoners as the summoners like to tell themselves he is.

I miss the institute, it made these lines so much more immersive. I can only dream now of an event that actually has you becoming corrupted by the voidborn you summon (you'd get an icon though, that's worth it, right?).

ZenithEeveeNov 29, 20141 votes

I was disappointed at first too, But I can definitely see why they chose not to give her a "voice". P.S. I don't think a mental link with a void champion is very healthy considering what little we know about them.

Well, look at it like this, Sona (So far the ONLY champ to have a link with the "Summoner") Can cut with sounds, Considering IF Rek'Sai was Captured, it wouldnt end up being a link to the summoner him/herself, but to the device they use to control her.

DiahaneNov 29, 20144 votes

I've posted the following in another thread, but I think it may add something to the discussion, so I'll repost it, because it addresses one possible reason for people not to like how she's been characterized through her ("lack of") VO lines.

So yes, every character has to think their autobiography at you for you to understand them. It can't be any sort of non-verbal indication of their personality or concept.

If you can't understand Gnar just by looking at him, you have serious problems. Gnar's obvious. He's this primal, child-like critter that seems alternately ecstatic at being alive and pissed off that everything around him isn't dead yet. And he needs absolutely no words to convey that, because ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS, and SHOW, DON'T TELL. These are two cornerstones of good writing.

That's why people would like to be shown things like, you know, characters being characters, with mental processes and interactions. Rek'Sai is a good monster design, but is she a character? She's as much a character as Tremors were in their movies. Hint: they were not real characters, they were more of a plot device than anything else. They were the Raison d'Être of the movies, but they were not the ones the audience was meant to impersonate with, they were not the characters presented with forms of plot progression, problem solving or development. Rek'Sai risks to be as much of a character as faceless guards or big creeps are in your usual TES game. She doesn't seem to have any other agency than being, uh, a big tough monster. We could argue Godzilla too falls under this category and does just fine, but Godzilla is the star of his movies and eventually faces other big monsters with his same character depth, while Rek'Sai is part of a world where there are actual meaningful characters with some agency (apart from Sivir, she's just the Disney princess needed to shoehorn Azir). There's the serious risk of her being overshadowed by the major complexity of other characters, thus turning into just a plot device, a foe to put other more meaningful characters in peril and to maybe let them show off how strong they are. You know, like when in ME2 you go and shoot that Thresher Maw to death. That's just to remind you how cool you are. The creep isn't per se a character, it's a device in your story.

Regarding Gnar, he's obviously who you said he is. He's hyperactive child and we are shown that, that's good. But if we want to talk about his relevance in a Runeterra global scope, well, we wouldn't have anything more to say. He's pretty one-dimensional in his characterization and doesn't offer that much of potential character progression. I don't think he will ever have a big role on the lore, apart from eventually being a plot device - i.e. maybe his genes will get studied and that will unveil something of Yordle history and all. But it won't actually be Gnar doing it, it will be done through him, but not thanks to or by him.

HelmightNov 29, 20141 votes

Very relevant to the discussion and excellently put. Thanks :D

DiahaneNov 29, 20141 votes

Very relevant to the discussion and excellently put. Thanks :D

You're welcome! I'm glad you found it interesting enough to say so =)

Kobila2000Nov 26, 20143 votes

Plenty of other monster champions have shallow lores, but that's because they're monsters. You would not look at a crocodile and find some great personal introspection, you'd find a primal brain that operates on instinct. Same with these champions, except the destruction angle is turned up to the extreme.

The first lore I read was Skarner's, because of his "I miss my kind" line. I didn't expect him to be anything but a fearsome scorpion and was pleasantly surprised to see that he has a small story. But not every champion can be like that and I think that's okay. Some monsters are shallow, some are not.

And I like Rek'Sai's VO. It's different. What would you have her say? More stuff the lines of "Death awaits" "You will perish" "Destruction is coming" etc.?

HelmightNov 27, 20141 votes

And I like Rek'Sai's VO. It's different. What would you have her say? More stuff the lines of "Death awaits" "You will perish" "Destruction is coming" etc.?

With the vastly expanded VO scripts that are all the rage in new champions, we'd have at least a few lines that hinted at Rek'Sai's past, her thoughts process, why she's on Runeterra, etc. Think of Vel'Koz's VO: sure, some of it is just "I'm a mad Void scientist guy", but we do learn that he misses the Void and get to hear what his exact thoughts on human beings are.

I can agree that a VO like Cho'Gath's is somewhat boring because it's seventeen different shades of "I'm going to kill you all", but if we could get a VO more along the lines of Kalista or Vel'Koz, I think that'd be worth it.

Kobila2000Nov 27, 20143 votes

I guess I just don't see what a monster that's only about destruction would have to say. My main used to be Hecarim and I was pretty disappointed in his lore until I realized that that's really what his fanasy is all about and that's that. He's not human, so I shouldn't expect humanity from him. Not all monsters are gonna be sophisticated, some are just primitives functioning on instinct.

HelmightNov 27, 20142 votes

Hecarim is a bit different in that his backstory is being deliberately left vague so the writers can play up the whole "what happened in the Shadow Isles?" story that they're working on. Hecarim was also released back before Riot decided to expand champion VOs, so they chose not to include hints as to his origins or previous life a la Kalista.

And Rek'Sai isn't just a monster. That much can be deduced from her laugh and taunt animations - you could honestly argue that she's mocking Kassadin's laugh with her own. She obviously has a higher intellect - but Riot chose not to let us in on the loop.

There's also the fact that she's a Voidborn. Every other Voidborn thus far - Kog'Maw included - have been freethinking, sentient individuals. Though they are somewhat driven by instinct, they're also immensely smart. Rek'Sai would be a major exception to that rule, and I don't think it's one that Riot made here.

Kobila2000Nov 27, 20141 votes

His old lore. Where he joins League because...to spread destruction or something. Same with Morde. Just glorification of how big and dangerous they are. That was their lore. Pretty darn shallow. A champion like Rek'Sai can only work once, so it'd be silly to expect more of them. Riot did say they attempted with Rek what they wanted with Omen, a completely bestial champion. I don't know if that necessarily means she lacks higher intellect, but it does say something about the kind of experience Riot has been aiming for for her players.

There is one exception, Malza's voidlings.

HelmightNov 27, 20142 votes

His backstory was still left vague in his old lore. We don't know how he became a spectral centaur, or why he charged across Runeterra to join the League, but we do know that there's some kind of motivation behind it. Riot left it vague because they were keeping the Shadow Isles a mystery at that point in time. Same with Mordekaiser. With Kalista's release and Maokai's updated lore, they're starting to peel back the shadows, so it's only natural to assume that if Hecarim were to get a new VO, he'd have lines hinting about why he causes destruction and where he came from.

There's a difference between the Voidborn and voidlings. The Voidborn are described as "creatures so ancient and terrible that they have been removed from history altogether", and that they "command vast armies of unspeakable creatures." These vast armies are likely to consist of creatures much like the voidlings - unthinking killing machines that can be somewhat controlled. Remember too that Malzahar serves the Void - he's allowed to use their pets in his battles, but cannot control the Voidborn "lords", as it were.

Rek'Sai is at least being treated as a Voidborn, especially due to her status as the "Queen" of the Xer'Sai. It stands to reason therefore that she has the same cognitive abilities of the other Voidborn.

Colgate GatorNov 26, 20142 votes

Maybe she just doesn't feel like talking to your whinny ass, so just growls at you.

2 out of 100+ Champions don't talk and yet you find it a reason to complain about.

Rek' Sai is an independant Voidwomonsterwoman and need no Summoner.

EDIT: I'm not particularly interested in what Gnar has to say, to be honest, it'd be mostly derp shenanigans and we have enough of those. Come to think of it, all Yordles only say nonsense, save maybe for Poppy.

GreenLoreNov 26, 20142 votes

You are wrong about the whole "summoners should understand them",the link between summoners and champs was never depicted as "the summoner understands the thoughts of the champ" and more like "the summoner hears some thoughts of the champ"

You want proof? Well just look at Karmas VO. When she uses her ult,she says stuff like "Lath Rian Oune Vi..." which translates to "Weave the threads of..." we do not get the translated version because karma doesn't think this line in english,she thinks it in old ionian,just like gnar and rek'sai don't think in english or whatever language you use(and yes Karma says that even in her old VO)

Garens HaremNov 27, 20142 votes

I am not disappointed at all

mainly because i do not give a hoot about VOs

Rune OcarinaNov 27, 20142 votes

I actually like it. We got our female monster. Riot delivered. There's no need to give her real vocals cause she what you guys wanted - a monster. We already have monsters that speak, actually having a monster that sounds like a monster is actually nice to have. And hey, she's female too - like everyone wanted XD

HelmightNov 27, 20141 votes

She may as well not be given her current VO. There's nothing concrete in her characterization to let us pin her as female in the first place. And Cho'Gath and Kog'Maw have spoken dialogue, yes, but they certainly sound monstrous at the same time. Intelligibility and monstrous-sounding are not incompatible.

Rune OcarinaNov 27, 20141 votes

Well, there's the text Riot gave us that solidifies her as female, so there's that :3

HelmightNov 27, 20142 votes

The point is that there's nothing within the game that states it. And more serious than determining her gender is establishing her as the intelligent and cunning beast that all Voidborn are supposed to be. Cho looks like a scary monster, but it's his VO that lets you know that that's not ALL he is. Rek'Sai doesn't currently have that advantage. For all we know, she's nothing more than an objective monster in terms of intelligence.

Kobila2000Nov 28, 20141 votes

Uh, yes it is. She is clearly referred to as "she" in her ability description, along with an ability that states she's a queen. Anyone playing her will know she's female.

HelmightNov 29, 20142 votes

Hello again Kobila. We seem to be running into each other quite often these days :P

Players don't read nearly as much as you give them credit for. Even when they do bother to check out skill descriptions or tooltips, they're usually just parsing them for the important information, like scalings, stun durations, mana costs, etc. And almost no one bothers to read skill names - why say "Piercing Light" when you can say "Q"?

So it's still valuable to have gender conveyed in other means.

Kobila2000Nov 29, 20141 votes

Players do read tooltips. It's the only thing they bother to read, alongside patch notes. And even then, one of her abilities specifically includes the female title "queen" (your claim that no-one ever reads ability names seems downright silly). You'd have to not ever play her or heck, hear people talk about her to miss the fact she's female. It's like not knowing that Quinn is Demacian, but at least being Demacian is not mentioned in her pronouns.

HelmightNov 29, 20142 votes

I specifically said that people read tooltips. What I did say though is that they parse tooltips for the useful information and disregard the rest. When I look at a champion's ability tooltips in-game, I'm looking for information that's relevant to the game at hand, like cooldowns, mana costs, CC durations, scalings, etc. I'm not paying attention to personal pronouns like "he" or "she".

And I would bet that most people don't know the names of champion abilities. In fact, the ranked team that I'm currently on finds it amazing that I can actually rattle off all of a given champion's ability names. Most people might know the name of the ultimate, or of a particularly broken skill, but certainly couldn't list them all on command. Passive abilities have even worse visibility than active ones do, so even though Rek'Sai's passive is listed as "Queen of the Xer'Sai", few people will ever bother to read it in-game.

Therefore, it IS important that other visual clues exist to help identify who Rek'Sai is. Given that she doesn't follow human morphology, she needs a VO that can help convey her gender.

Kobila2000Nov 29, 20141 votes

We're not talking about knowing names of the abilities. I don't remember the names, but I did read them because they're right there in the description in big letters. And I don't see people just conveniently missing all pronouns.

What baffles me is why you think such a ridiculously unimportant and yet easy-to-know information is so crucial that it needs to be portrayed somehow? Does Kayle need big boobies because people who play with no sound won't know she's female?

DiahaneNov 29, 20142 votes

We're not talking about knowing names of the abilities. I don't remember the names, but I did read them because they're right there in the description in big letters. And I don't see people just conveniently missing all pronouns.

What baffles me is why you think such a ridiculously unimportant and yet easy-to-know information is so crucial that it needs to be portrayed somehow? Does Kayle need big boobies because people who play with no sound won't know she's female?

And that's perhaps exactly why Kayle's new splash ended up having boob plate instead of her old unisex armour. Apparently, better showing she was a female was a need they felt. So why not with Rek'Sai?

Personal anecdote, by the way: in the past I have witnessed several friends clearly being surprised when I told them Kayle was female, even if they knew her in-game. People, as said above, may parse the only information they do care about and it wouldn't surprise me if someone didn't notice Rek'Sai is a female.

Kobila2000Nov 29, 20141 votes

I don't see how their crappy treatment of female characters in any way means they should take another step back with Rek'Sai. Like does doing stupid crap necessitate continuing to do so?

And we're not talking "someone didn't notice", we're talking "a couple of guys can't read so we need to bash them over the head with a champion's completely irrelevant femininity so they get the point".

DiahaneNov 29, 20143 votes

I don't see how their crappy treatment of female characters in any way means they should take another step back with Rek'Sai. Like does doing stupid crap necessitate continuing to do so?

And we're not talking "someone didn't notice", we're talking "a couple of guys can't read so we need to bash them over the head with a champion's completely irrelevant femininity so they get the point".

If you meant that you don't like Kayle's new boob plate, I agree with you, I don't like it as well. What I meant is that your example was kind of flawed. You were ridiculing a person for their opinion like it was nonsense presenting a case in which indeed the developers felt the need to convey visually that the character's a female, thus giving his/her concerns a validity.

We're not talking about people being unable to read, we're talking about people not always reading everything and eventually skipping some irrelevant information (like gender is, as you said). What the one you were responding to said was just that it may be useful to convey that information through other means. Not because it's necessary or relevant, but just for the sake of getting that information out there. Simply, on this aspect the "female monster" hype isn't understandable, because the character is unrecognisable from a male one but from tooltips, which are not lore, but gameplay information and thus may be parsed for only relevant mechanics and figures.

Kobila2000Nov 29, 20141 votes

Gender is irrelevant as in, you shouldn't compromise your design just because looking/sounding female takes precedent over everything else (like what they did with Kayle). It does not mean that it's irrelevant as if people naturally ignore every mention of a pronoun when reading. Visually Rek looks great and I love how abstract her voice is. To ruin that just because some small number of people have issues with reading makes no sense. It is literally a number of simple sentences.

By your logic, a regular person is going to read this sentence as "Rek’Sai gains fury whenever N/A attacks N/A enemies. Burrowing consumes N/A fury, briefly regenerating N/A health." Do you realize how ridiculous this is? Pronouns aren't some single word you'll miss by skimming over the text and never see it again. Not to mention, players are already well aware that she's female.

Athenes LuluNov 27, 20141 votes

If I'd get a translation of Gnar's lines, that would be nice. That at least gives us some idea on how old he is.

And of course, now to the new champ... I wanna know what my waifu says too :(

Athenes LuluNov 27, 20141 votes

If I'd get a translation of Gnar's lines, that would be nice. That at least gives us some idea on how old he is.

And of course, now to the new champ... I wanna know what my waifu says too :(

HelmightNov 27, 20141 votes

Only one of us is allowed to have Rek'Sai as their waifu, and it isn't going to be you :P

In all seriousness, someone actually proposed adding subtitles for Rek'Sai's lines. It's a bit of a weird solution, but it solves a few problems: the people who liked her VO get to keep it, the people who wanted to know what she says can know, and it's cost- and time-efficient for Riot to implement.

TabsNov 29, 20141 votes

I think it be cool, if she kept her current VO, but tried to attempt to speak, depending on what champs are on her team. Kinda like shes trying to pickup, and understand their language. It would keep her current feel, but let people know she IS a female

HelmightNov 29, 20142 votes

There've been people who posted about giving Rek'Sai a broken command of English, so that her VO is still mostly clicks and grunts and screams, but so that there are a few lines of English mixed in. Sounds kinda similar to your idea, and I'd be okay with either one of them. Just not with a full 7-minute VO of nothing but growls :P