Relic Shield and Skill Level - a disparity

Tolinar··2 votes·738 views

Something that irks me about Gold Generator items, is that they tend to lead to "Midgame Broke" once the laning phase ends.

This is really common in the LOWER tiers of play - Bronze to early Gold.

For Coin and its relatives, this is less of a problem, you tend to be able to hang out on a wave and try to Last Hit, and if/when you fail, well, you're still getting SOME gold.

But many fights in the midgame tend to be quite divey in these lower brackets, with little restraint shown. Players want to have fun and get desperate. There's not much opportunity for a support to safely harass an enemy team, so spellthief produces a bit less gold, but its fully-grown active is so excellent that it doesn't hurt very much.

The item that suffers the most is definitely Relic Shield, and its counterparts. The odds of you getting to Proc a Relic Shield are already kinda low in the early brackets. It's 50/50 to hope your ADC will leave you the siege minion even if they say they will. In the hype of some pushdown, it can get forgotten. But once you're offlane, things turn really ugly. The item's gold generation and benefits plummet, hard. Nobody even leaves any minions for the Support to hit, and it doesn't matter how many little shiny orbs are floating around you.

At higher levels of skill it is less of a problem, people will let you have some of that gold. But certainly not in the lower sets - if an average team sees a Taric walking up to a minion, they will scramble to kill it first regardless of who they are or what position they play.

This strongly demotes Melee Supports, because they don't get full benefit of a Gold item unless they choose to take Coin. Especially in the case of those tanky-types who fall a bit behind, coming back can be really tough. You can't farm, you can't get up front and earn assists... Taric can heal to get a pass, but for an environment trying to encourage alternate roles, it doesn't work.

I chalk up Relic Shield, as the main reason Support Mordekaiser never really went anywhere when his absurd power spike was removed. When we look at our currently functioning Melee Supports, we see Taric with a ranged stun and heal, Blitz and Thresh with their pulls to punish mistakes (common occurrence in low skill games) and Alistar, who can functionally tank with almost no gold thanks to his Ultimate and Combo. And all of them, have the high potential to become broke in midgame and significantly less important at the end. My most successful games on Taric almost always involve taking Coin first, not Relic Shield.

If you want to promote Supporting Diversity, you need to up your Support Item game, and I think Relic Shield is the place to start.

8 Comments

Nyaboron1 votes

Relic is fine and the reason there is less support diversity is because of the vision changes. You need tankier or safer supports in general to be able to face-check or ward solo. Relic lets you execute minions like the siege whether your adc lets you or not, since your execute does more damage than adc's autos. The only support that takes targon that has trouble proccing is thresh.

Tolinar1 votes

{quoted}

Relic is fine and the reason there is less support diversity is because of the vision changes. You need tankier or safer supports in general to be able to face-check or ward solo. Relic lets you execute minions like the siege whether your adc lets you or not, since your execute does more damage than adc's autos. The only support that takes targon that has trouble proccing is thresh.

But on-lane isn't really the issue, like I said... Do you people all just skim?

Nyaboron1 votes

You don't really need the gold generation as much later, and it's still not that hard to proc. Yeah, you might sit around with a bunch of orbs but it's not really that high of priority. The gold generation is to get you through the early game, after that it doesn't matter as much. The point of support champions is that they have really strong kits but don't scale with items well (thus are good early game but are pure utility late game).

Tolinar1 votes

{quoted}

You don't really need the gold generation as much later, and it's still not that hard to proc. Yeah, you might sit around with a bunch of orbs but it's not really that high of priority. The gold generation is to get you through the early game, after that it doesn't matter as much. The point of support champions is that they have really strong kits but don't scale with items well (thus are good early game but are pure utility late game).

I've played support many, many years. And I don't necessarily agree with that philosophy.

The point of support champions are skills that dynamically improve with teamwork as opposed to skills that function equally well in groups as in solo. Support champs can scale especially well with gold, or fall off without it. Letting go of the "Broke Support" concept will open the door to new and interesting support types, and help make primarily gold-dependent support champs more appealing.

Grey Fortune2 votes

By mid game you should be racking up assists. Thats what your support abilities are for, and the actives from the upgrades give assist credit as well. In lane phase, you don't get nearly as many assists (give the lack of opponents available to kill) so thats why supports purchase gold items to begin with. Often times, carries will soak up waves of minions mid/ late game and leave their fellow carries hungry for CS. Your gold masteries and Items will still proc however, giving you gold while your other 3 teammates get nothing.

Also, supports don't scale as well with gold. At least, not as well as their teammates. When you buy support items, you essentially donate you item slots to your teammates. Buying locket, and Mikaels can let your carries forgo rushing defensive items (thus preventing their power spikes from being delayed) While Zeke's give's them a huge damage multiplier. Every carry wishes they had more item slots for more damage and every tank wishes they had more slots to make them more unkillable. Supports allow for this indirectly, and that kind of is the point of the role.

Nyaboron1 votes

I've been playing support since season 2 and it's not necessarily just my philosophy, it's game design. As a support, you are not taking creeps, you're protecting your marksman while they scale or partnering with your marksmen to set theirs back. Because you're not taking creeps, you have to be able to function on very little gold. Think about support champions, they all have utility to bring to the table regardless of how much gold they have: janna has strong disengage abilities, alistar has strong peel and engage abilities, thresh has strong engage and peel, soraka has heals and mild disruption. Most CC doesn't scale off of hp, damage, ap, or whatever. It's independant of the items you have. Thresh and bard don't get stupid tanky like a mundo or malphite can. Nami and janna build AP but don't do nearly as much damage as any laner that builds AP. Supports are used for utility, not tanking or damage (they can off-tank or provide some supporting damage, yes, but they aren't spectacular at it). GPM items get you through the early game to get sightstone, boots, and other essentials before you group up and get more income via turrets and assists. They still help you late game but not getting targon procs every time your passive is up doesn't hurt you that much. The only "gold-dependent" support champs are cheese kill-lane "supports" who don't belong in the role, and don't get played much when you get out of shit elo.

Casri1 votes

It's true that item 3401/item 2303 are difficult to proc in the** late-game** unless your team is mindful and allows you to get your stacks off.

In the late-game when minions have scaled up and have more health (melee minions around 700 by 36 mins), getting the minions low enough to execute without your LuxLucian obliterating the wave before you have a chance is pretty irritating, and not uncommon.

  • I think the easiest/simplest fix to this is to simply allow the item 3302 items to completely execute minions (except for Super Minions), rather than having a health requirement of 200-400.

The effect this would have during the laning phase would be pretty minor, and if it turned out tank-supports had too much pushing potential, the full execute could be activated around 25 minutes, when the laning phase has long-since finished.

I would argue that Relic Shield/Targon are incredibly powerful currently, the heal they provide (with the gold share) goes a long way when it comes to enhancing trades and healing up poke damage. It also allows tank supports to fully tank when they are leashing for their jungler and heal up as soon as they get to lane with 2 charges. I would prefer my buff/change to anything drastic, really.

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