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Let's face it, bot lane is in the shitter right now.

Guanxi··71 votes·4,163 views

Before you down-vote, here me out. Over the past 2 or so weeks, I've been seeing a bunch of wacky shit in the bot lane, and me being a Draven 1 trick at low diamond-high plat MMR, it can get a little rage inducing. I'm sure you guys of higher elo are aware of the Malzahar support being pretty good right now, due to his ult making an adc useless, but now i'm starting to see Ziggs "adc". Like, i'm aware that adc's are in the worst spot they've been in for A LONG TIME, but I think this might give you guys at RIOT an indication that something needs to change. I've seen the Ziggs carry bot, the Brand, Malzahar combo, now i'm starting to see Darius in the bot lane now too.

Yes, I'm aware of the "adc is strong due to the fact that you can crit for 1500 by simply right clicking" and the "adc is important for constant DPS for sieging turrets". Trust me, I'm aware, and I'm also aware that if you're good enough at ADC, you can simply carry the game single handedly, but that's not the point i'm trying to make. The point i'm trying to make, is that there's better shit you can put down as a bot lane carry right now, and it's kinda irritating. The only really safe ADC's you can play right now are Cait, Ez, and Jhin in lane, Twitch is good for late game if he can get out of lane, and Vayne, if she gets her IE and Shiv. Other then that, you're pretty much trolling right now. It's kinda lame as fuck.

Anyways, that's all I have to say about that, I hope you guys @RIOT can hopefully resolve this issue. It's like i'm playing season 1 all over again.

93 Comments

Big Lincoln43 votes

ADCs aren't mandatory anymore? guess i'm reinstalling, time to play me some Darius bot lane

Ralanr2 votes

Noxus has now conquered bot lane.

noxus is op1 votes

i like this comment.

Supreme Senpai692 votes

Only with an Ivern support.

At that point why not just go duo top lane though? Darius is gonna get kited to hell and back by not one but two ranged champions now lol.

Nami in Bush38 votes

I play bot > retarded as fuck team I play anywhere else > retarded as fuck bot lane

Guanxi8 votes

Very true

Nami in Bush20 votes

1-1-2 lucian with most CS in game

5-28 rest of team

I go mid and go 3-3-6

bot lane is 1-19

idontgiveabother2 votes

Ive had 2 ekko games in a row where i was 0/1/1 with the most or nearly the most cs and had actually won lane. Then I look at other lanes they all have 5-10+ deaths, lower cs and lost lane. You can say im blaming "MUH TEAM" but im 99% sure doing less is better in this situation.

People in silver have this insatiable bloodlust, even im guilty but not nearly as often as I see it.

Nami in Bush2 votes

These are Plat 3's and they don't know how to not die lmfao

idontgiveabother1 votes

Thats concerning since I was hoping to get plat 5 this season.

Guanxi1 votes

Plat elo is just as bad as gold, sorry to tell ya mate.

AleksejVeliki1 votes

{quoted}

Plat elo is just as bad as gold, sorry to tell ya mate.

well isn't really as bad as gold since you have to improve but yea the difference is like less dying and making more pressure.

Miku Append3 votes

[{quoted}](name=This Urgot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PMquovuO,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-01-07T03:57:35.501+0000)

I play bot > retarded as fuck team I play anywhere else > retarded as fuck bot lane

My life as a support.

Supreme Senpai692 votes

Lol I had a team one game that didn't feed. But I used my ban for my top laner and the one time I didn't ban thresh I went against a mastery 7 Thresh main and fed :[

Bellows21 votes

Cry some more.

Way I see it, bot lane doesnt belong to adc and support. Its never should have. Its a map. The Rift. You play what works and where. The whole adc and support thing was created BECAUSE of its variety and niche picking. Was never an intended meta, it just works. Now something else works. Get over it.

Anidan11 votes

If you can convince top lane mains to quite bitching about melee vs ranged with this sort of argument too, that'd be great. Top lane doesn't belong solely to the melee and attempts to balance specifically that issue will run into problems in the long term.

ChaddyFantome8 votes

{quoted}

If you can convince top lane mains to quite bitching about melee vs ranged with this sort of argument too, that'd be great. Top lane doesn't belong solely to the melee and attempts to balance specifically that issue will run into problems in the long term.

Ranged Vs Melee is an issue that isn't exclusive to Top lane. it is just the lane where it is most pronounced.

Anidan2 votes

The problem is that you're not going to balance it in the laning phase, ever. Ranged is always an inherent advantage for a prolonged encounter where attrition tactics can be used, such as the laning phase. Especially in League since it's so easy to kite as a ranged champion.

Your best option in the laning phase would be to allow top laners to farm something else while the ranged champion is preventing them last hitting due to zoning, make the melee so durable that the ranged poke isn't something to factor in (haha no), or make the melee champions adept at fighting ranged champions - but that only matters when they can fight, so if that ranged champion gets ahead then that fighting advantage is kind of moot.

I have a question: how would you balance it?

ChaddyFantome1 votes

Hell if I know. I'm not the one making the complaint. I was just correcting the poster. lmao I assure you tho that if i had an answer, i would have provided one. :/

Anidan1 votes

It's a really complicated issue unfortunately :\

In League's case it's actually kind of a problem with the game's design as a base at the moment. Almost everything they did to separate it from DotA is actually working against the ranged vs. melee problem and made it worse on accident. Not saying they can't find a way, because I'm sure there is and we just don't know about it yet, or maybe there hasn't been a proper way to go about it that's been introduced to the game, but damn if that isn't a complicated problem.

RavenMagus10 votes

ADCs are basically overpowered once they get ahead or are full build.

But they are very underpowered if they are anything else.

Honestly, the problem isn't just the 4-man botlane fiesta meta. That's definitely part of it, but that's not the whole reason. I personally feel that this is all just an outcome of how damage in the game as a whole has been incredibly high since the Season 6 mastery changes. ADCs are getting instantly blown up by everyone - burst mages, jungle fighters, Sonas, even tanks are killing ADCs extremely quick, and marksmen just can't easily build any defensive items since they need to build all the scaling crit things first.

I honestly wouldn't like to see ADCs buffed, since ADCs are just impossible to fight against when they are strong (nothing you can do to outplay a right click). But I would like to see the overall damage in the game go down so your average jungle fighters with 2-3 tank items aren't killing ADCs in a couple seconds anymore.

McFatal7 votes

lets face it, top has been in the shitter for 3 seasons now.

not one buff to help melees vs ranged.

not one mention of it from any rioter.

i hope your issue gets resolved tho 2 weeks is awful!!!!

Toxickh2 votes

Meh, the put rift herald to help with the whole "top lane is an island" ordeal.

Big Lincoln8 votes

nobody cares about rift herald, it's just a giant snowball mechanic if you're stomping lane and your jungler's already taken drag+bot turret

McFatal3 votes

{quoted}

Meh, the put rift herald to help with the whole "top lane is an island" ordeal.

its shit.

awful buff and takes too long to even get.

Çhåryzård3 votes

{quoted}

lets face it, top has been in the shitter for 3 seasons now.

not one buff to help melees vs ranged.

not one mention of it from any rioter.

i hope your issue gets resolved tho 2 weeks is awful!!!!

Toplane would at least be getting jungler help and rift herald if bot turret wasn't so weak that divers could get the FB turret, then dragon, and then snowball

Camp Top2 votes

{quoted}

lets face it, top has been in the shitter for 3 seasons now.

not one buff to help melees vs ranged.

not one mention of it from any rioter.

i hope your issue gets resolved tho 2 weeks is awful!!!!

Don't you just love playing against that one guy who said "Heh, I feel like invalidating you as a player today" and picks ryze top then proceeds to type a novel only using the letters "q,w,e"? Hey, I wouldn't be surprised if he taped the keys down for all we know

bbQsauçe6 votes

[deleted]

MagicFlyingLlama5 votes

Explain Ziggs

ChaddyFantome20 votes

"OMG people are playing something OTHER than a Marksman in BOT! Clearly ADC's are weak!!"

Are you for fucking real??

ShippoTail9 votes

Its more the reason people are playing other things. Support main here, ADC is my worst roll...

The 4 man party in bot lane shutting down people under towers is 'fun' but when the most gold reliant position gets shut down and cant get any farm, and has no mobility. Why not play something safer?

BTW I'm all for going out of meta, but when 'going out of meta' is becoming the meta, maybe they should change something so the supposed meta is actually meta.

Golden Tager X5 votes

No you really shouldn't. The game needs to take its natural course in the meta, if we get Riot involved in this it could be YEARS before we even get to see a slight shift in botlane that isn't Mordekaiser bullshit all over again.

ShippoTail6 votes

I'm talking about a class of characters, marksman, who just feel completely useless to play. I personally would rather assassins feel completely worthless to play then a class that has no mobility, limited utility, and is extremely gold reliant.

In other words, Supports can duel marksman, tanks can duel marksman, bruisers wreck marksman, assassins wreck marksman, mages can blow up marksman, that is until LATE game, and most of that still holds true until there is a complete team around the ADC.

And lets look at the least used class in the RGM too, isn't that the marksman there as well?

MagicFlyingLlama3 votes

Yes. This is called basic logic, it is a thing most people spectacularly fail at for some reason.

The reason people are playing ziggs bot is because he is a better choice than most ADCs. People are not doing it just to be funny.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

Yes. This is called basic logic, it is a thing most people spectacularly fail at for some reason.

Considering you conflate "X being better than Y" and "Y sux " , I have to agree.

The reason people are playing ziggs bot is because he is a better choice than most ADCs. People are not doing it just to be funny.

No, they do it because it is cool, fun and refreshing to do things that work when they are off meta. Especially in this day and age where things like this don't last very long, and marksman have ruled the game with an iron fist since the dawn of time.

But no, lets pretend that every ADC in the game just sucks right now because a single underplayed mage is viable bot lane. due to a combination of outside factors.

MagicFlyingLlama4 votes
<snip>
ChaddyFantome2 votes

{quoted}

No, i say it because i have been an ahri main for four years, because it is basic math (add up the damage from the abilities at lv6), and because every single pro guide i have ever seen says to max Q first, for the aforementioned reasons, and because it is the highest (only, really) winrate ability order.

But surely you know better than everyone else. Arrogant delusion is a core part of human nature.

...uh, i think you posted in reply to the wrong person, m8.

MagicFlyingLlama1 votes

Wrong person, wrong thread. I have no idea how that happened, actually.

Why the hell did people upvote it?

RexSaur6 votes

Both adcs and top laners are in very shit spot because of how overpowered junglers are atm.

MagicFlyingLlama5 votes

I got to watch a ziggs and malz duo feed like avatars of failure a few days ago. The meta is filtering down to elow land, as usual.

Just the fact this is happening by itself (not like the pro-copying that usually leads to off-meta stuff) shows something is horribly wrong.

ExhibitD2 votes

I'm pretty sure the whole ziggs bot thing came from a pro player though...

nice table5 votes

bot lane is the only lane that matters in the game - better buff adcs so everyone starts playing even more anti adc shit and gangbanging bot

Guanxi2 votes

Uh.. what?

nice table5 votes

the reason people claim adc is weak is because the game is focused on fucking the enemy adc as hard as possible, the reason this is a thing is that adcs are strong as fuck right now.

Qukslice2 votes

Not really. ADC's need the early game to ramp up and when you take that from them, they become deadweights unless they can catch up.

It feels like after the Assassian rework came about, rotations became wayyy too easy and now people can properly shut down bot lane with 4 man dives etc etc etc. A busted ADC would be more like Vayne before she was barely nerfed with an IE and a Shiv.

nice table3 votes

i play jungle and the only way i can actually have a effect on the game is by camping the enemy adc so hard they dont delete me in a second late game, well of course last game i played i was full build while this guy was at 3 items after getting constantly dove by me whole game and he still deleted me in 5 sec when i was full tank.

zaire902 votes

malzahar has been making mid laners useless for a long time now at least bot has someone who can break his ult for u if ur lucky i usually just start reading that bible app that ive been told is free cause im ready for death at that point

Xilixer2 votes

well maybe malzahar wouldnt be in bot lane if he dealt enough damage on his own without relying on minions for main source of damage.

edit: i just tried sup malz and its ok. if the enemy bot comp doesnt really have any initiators it works. however, malz has a hard time protecting carry.

inplane2 votes

Bot Lane has been in the shitter ever since the introduction of First Tower Gold, the removal of Fortification from Bot Lane towers, and the creation of Dynamic Queue. It was still bearable with the introduction of Dragon Buffs and Rift Scuttler.

KraDEsluP2821 votes

It's like i'm playing season 1 all over again.

how was it in season 1?

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