Yasuo's kit is incredibly toxic.

Guanxi·Feb 24, 2017·32 votes·2,411 views

Not a bitchy and whiny post, just stating a fact.

67 Comments

GULAG 4 UFeb 24, 20178 votes

'stating a fact'

->Proceeds to give no evidence, point, argument or proof to back it up.

Great post. 5/7.

AmazoXFeb 25, 20172 votes

The best part is he is stating a FACT which is definitely not an Opinion

Applause for you XTRM,

AmazoXFeb 25, 20172 votes

Definitely a FACT. Definitely not an OPINION

KiritoErenMikasaFeb 24, 20174 votes

Honestly the only thing that i would adjust on yasuo is his tornado. How? well only give him the use of his tornado when he has his ult available.

GuanxiFeb 24, 20176 votes

I'd get rid of his double crit chance.

WalkingInACircleFeb 24, 20176 votes

I'd remake him entirely.

DunkinNoobsFeb 24, 20176 votes

{quoted}

I'd get rid of his double crit chance.

Good Idea. Yasuo item 3078 item 3022 item 3068 item 3156 item 3047 item 3143 sure was fun, wasn't it?

doiminat0r3600Feb 24, 20172 votes

You can't get rid of that, otherwise he would go full tank because his abilities already do enough damage. You'd see item 3071 item 3046 item 3748 item 3022 item 3068 running around if we got rid of that.

Fondling GemsFeb 24, 20173 votes

No he really wouldn't. His Q damage is non-existent and his E got some pretty hefty early game nerfs as well as requiring AD to do damage. That leaves his ult which he is really only using once per fight and again scales with AD and doesn't help sunfire cape's magic damage. At most he would be 2 damage items into tank.

doiminat0r3600Feb 25, 20171 votes

His Q damage isn't what you're afraid of. You're afraid of the knockup that his Ult utilizes.

Fondling GemsFeb 25, 20172 votes

A champion can only go tank if they have the CC and base damages to back it up. Yasuo has low base damages which were nerfed even further. With that build you still aren't hitting max CD on Q and even if you do you have a skillshot CC on a 4 second CD that does little to no damage? Your ult can extend that once every 30 seconds so you can catch people out, but you do the exact same thing building damage except you can kill them without team help.

Yasuo just doesn't have the base damages to build tank which was your argument. He has what? 250 base damage in hit kit with maxed Q and E after dashing through 2 minions first? R has OK base damage but both it and E scale with Bonus AD, and that build has practically none in it.

What you have there is a champion with 30% crit chance who is a pain to kill but doesn't do much damage and doesn't do it consistently. There is no reason to pick him over a tank because a tank will tank better, provide more CC, and deal roughly equal damage. That build also loses out on Yasuo's laning power because he doesn't get double crit chance and you aren't rushing that anyways.

Sunfire cape is also a waste as it deals magic damage and you get 50% bonus armour pen with your ult.

doiminat0r3600Feb 25, 20171 votes

But the thing is, if Yasuo didn't build crit, he wouldnt be nearly as gold effecient. His double crit and his penetration on crits is what makes him viable. If you're a champion that only get's half the usefull ness from a stat you're supposed to get, would you even bother building it?

It's like if you didn't build Hybrid on Akali even though she is meant to be played that way.

Fondling GemsFeb 25, 20171 votes

But the point is that he wouldn't be building tank, he would still build damage because his kit isn't built to tank. Nothing in his kit scales with tank stats and he couldn't build anything like IBG or Frozen heart because he would still hate the stats.

He would just become a bad champion, he wouldn't suddenly start building full tank because he doesn't get anything from it and he certainly wouldn't throw in a single random crit item, if he were to get crit at all he would get more of it because he doesn't have any guaranteed crits.

Even if he did run around with that build it isn't like he would be doing much.

doiminat0r3600Feb 25, 20171 votes

If he wouldn't be building tank, then he would have nothing. He is to fragile to not build tank. He can't build full damage with no crit because he wouldnt get nearly as good of a gold effecient champion. If he builds tank, he is much more gold effecient and already happens. After Yas gets 2 crit items, he goes (went) tank.

Remember when Yasuo went top with item 3046 item 3078 and Grasp of the Undying? The only reason that didn't happen first build was because his double crit existed. He would be going tank immediantly without it. If you ask literally any yasuo main they would say the crit is the most essential part of his kit because it keeps him on a certain build path until he gets 100% crit.

Fondling GemsFeb 25, 20171 votes

However once again if he goes full tank it doesn't matter because he wouldn't do anywhere near the damage of old tank Yasuo and Yasuo doesn't have the tools to compare to any other tank. It would be like going tank on Sivir because she has a spell shield which means that the longer she can live the more spells she can block which lets her live longer.

As someone who tried it for fun sure, it works, but the issue is there is absolutely 0 reason to focus her. She doesn't do the damage to kill a soraka. Neither her nor Yasuo have the base damages or the utility to effectively tank, nor do they scale with tank stats in any way.

Even if he did build that way it isn't like he would do anything. The only reason tank Yasuo worked was because he could go two crit items into full tank and outlast most enemies due to having guaranteed double damage on all his auto's and Q's. If he didn't have that he wouldn't have done anything with those builds.

If anything his build path would end up closer to Fiora's since they are pretty similar champions in a lot of ways.

doiminat0r3600Feb 25, 20171 votes

If you think he won't go tank, what would he do? If he didn't go tank, what would he build? AP? AD? No. He would go tank.

Fondling GemsFeb 25, 20171 votes

As I literally just mentioned in the comment you replied to I imagine he will build like Fiora. A couple damage items into bruiser. I would expect Ravenous Hydra to be pretty common since his Q applies it and acts as an AA reset.

The biggest thing though is I would expect his playrate to drop significantly and only not completely bomb due to how many people currently play him. Yasuo without his crits would be pretty sad and desperately in need of compensation buffs.

doiminat0r3600Feb 26, 20171 votes

So he would build tank? Okay.

FYI Bruiser on a squishy means tank.

Fondling GemsFeb 26, 20171 votes

No it really doesn't, it means a couple damage items into tanky items. There is a big difference between bruiser and tank.

This is bruiser: item 3074 item 3078 item 3009 item 3143 item 3065 item 3026

This is tank: item 3068 item 3742 item 3111 item 3065 item 3110 item 3512

There is a big difference between those. Bruisers build damage into tank. This does not make them tanks as they do not have the stats to do it. This lets them survive enough burst to get their damage out. Tanks on the other hand build pure tank items for much more survivability.

Yasuo has 0 reason to go the second path if he loses his double crit. He has plenty of reason to go down the first path (Items may vary by game.)

The build you posted makes no sense on him. item 3071 item 3748 item 3046 item 3022 item 3068

Yasuo does not need the 20% CDR in Black cleaver. He also has enough mobility that the rage passive doesn't help him all that much. With the new build on it as well it really doesn't give him enough damage to do anything. He would buy it and get practically no powerspike, especially as he already can ignore 50% of the enemies bonus armour for free. BC shred is mostly useful vs tanks, and yasuo already has tools to deal with them.

Heck lethality makes far more sense on Yasuo than that and I think I want to play lethality Yasuo now.

Titanic Hydra: This item actually makes a bit of sense if you are going full tank. Still a pretty silly idea since going Rav gets you lifesteal and Yasuo has the tools to avoid damage while he lifesteals up in a fight as well as having meh base HP which means he depends on items for titanic to do damage.

Phantom dancer is just silly. No one builds a single crit item without the intention of building more. Old Tank yasuo could do it because his double crit chance actually made it an efficient purchase but without that it is just a silly item. I mean great, now that one guy you are on really can't kill you, shame you do no damage either.

Frozen mallet. Once again if you are going down this path it is fine I guess, but for a tank you really don't have any resistances and you don't scale with health. Have fun getting blown up.

Sunfire. Of course, buy magic damage when you get free armour pen. Makes sense to me.

Your build just doesn't make sense on Yasuo. All it does it make him really good at annoying a single enemy without having the damage to kill them or the stats to survive in a teamfight. Your ability to take towers is pretty sad so you don't even make a good splitpusher. You also have no way to heal up after a fight which means that even if you are splitpushing and force the enemy to back off when they stop you now you are half health and they can just come back to kill you before you push much of all.

Going bruiser preserves a good chunk of damage output, gives you the lifesteal to heal while splitting, and provides some safety if you get caught out. You basically become a shitty Fiora rather than a Maokai that can't do anything but splitpush. Annoying, but no real threat.

Alternatively I will get back to you on that Lethality Yasuo because that sounds fun to do.

doiminat0r3600Feb 26, 20171 votes

First off: item 3143 can be bruiser or tank. Bruiser is a tanky damage dealer and a tank is generally a damage soaker. item 3742 is a bruiser item because of the AD increase. Right from the start your stats are wrong.

Secondly: That build is the only thing that would make sense. It's in the range of exactly what he would get if he couldn't or shouldn't build crit.

I'm starting to get that you don't know what you're talking about. So please stop. Ask any Yasuo main what would happen. Then tell me he wouldn't go tank.

doiminat0r3600Feb 26, 20171 votes

Secondly: That build is the only thing that would make sense. It's in the range of exactly what he would get if he couldn't or shouldn't build crit.

I'm starting to get that you don't know what you're talking about. So please stop. Ask any Yasuo main what would happen. Then tell me he wouldn't go tank.

Fondling GemsFeb 26, 20172 votes

Ok lets go over something that you don't seem to get.

item 3143 This is a tank item. item 3742 This is a tank item.

There aren't bruiser items, there are tank items and damage items. Bruiser is a type of build/playstyle where you mix damage and tank items.

I chose the items I did for very specific reasons. My bruiser build was lacking in the armour department and Randuins is one of the best items on bruisers as the slow is very effective for keeping in damage range. It can also be comboed with Yas ult but that is besides the point as I was putting out builds for Bruisers as a whole vs a Build for tanks as a whole to show the differences between them. Not for Yasuo bruiser vs tank specifically.

I put the dead man's plate in the tank build because it had more than enough armour and the 500 health would be more efficient.

Also please explain why your build makes sense. Just saying "It's in the exact range of what he would get if he couldn't or shouldn't build crit." proves nothing. Back up your points. I went through every item you listed and explained why he would or wouldn't want them. I came to the conclusion that overall the items have little synergy on yasuo and don't help him accomplish any of his goals.

Please go through your build and explain why he would want to build it. If you can't do that then I don't see where you get off saying that someone else doesn't know what they are talking about when they are willing to apply logic to a situation and explain their points clearly and in detail.

doiminat0r3600Feb 26, 20171 votes

Please don't request things of me that take up too much time. I've also told you over and over, just please ask any Yasuo main what would happen.

Since you wont, here is a link to a well, known yasuo main.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6Un6dFhh4M&t=949s

The part about crit is at 8:00

Fondling GemsFeb 27, 20171 votes

Yeah so if you aren't going to both taking the time to explain yourself I am not going to take the time to listen. I am not trying to be rude but if I put X amount of effort into a discussion that you started I expect at a minimum for you to put X amount of effort out to defend your points. If you are unwilling to do that then I feel you are unwilling to appreciate the effort I put in and so I will take my efforts elsewhere to people who are actually willing to put time, thought, and effort into their discussions.

doiminat0r3600Feb 27, 20171 votes

I never asked you to type out a mile long paragraph on how Tank yasuo "won't work"

I just asked you to watch the video explaining everything from the point of view from someone who knows what they're talking about.

Fondling GemsFeb 27, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You can't get rid of that, otherwise he would go full tank because his abilities already do enough damage. You'd see running around if we got rid of that.

This is what we were discussing, and this is what I am discussing with YOU. Citing from other sources is admirable, but only if you actually cite them. Telling someone to watch a video done by someone else is the same as saying you can't support your own argument. You use a source to support your points, you don't use a source as your points.

Also note that I typed that out before you linked that video, all I am asking is that you explain your points rather than shouldering your argument off onto someone else. If that video addresses any of the points I made then I expect you, the person using the video as a source, to be able to tell me why my points are flawed.

I am not expecting you to write as much as me, I know I tend to write a lot. I can however expect someone to take the time to defend their own argument.

doiminat0r3600Feb 27, 20171 votes

First off: I'm just trying to point to someone who knows more about the champion than I do. I also pointed to the video because he is a very well known Yasuo main.

Second off:

Yasuo just doesn't have the base damages to build tank which was your argument.

But the point is that he wouldn't be building tank

Is what this has turned into. You're arguing against the claim that Yasuo can't be built tank. And I raised you a video which literally says "[This is why something like] Tank Yasuo is actually toxic to the game. He shouldn't be able to just facetank a bunch of damage and still be OK. His survivabililty needs to depend primarily on how he uses his abilities, not his stats."

And here is my supporting argument to my first point of "He would be building tank" http://www.lolking.net/guides/405650

Patch 6.17 Yasuo builds. As you can see, almost all the recommendations have resistances. This was not what Riot intended for a squishy duelist to do.

How are you not getting this? You're arguing over how much time someone puts into a post rather than noticing the content itself. You have an argument. If 1 sentence completely negates that argument you have, you're just going to ignore it because it's not 5 paragraphs long? Really?

Fondling GemsFeb 27, 20171 votes

Yes, he currently can function building tanky because he can get 2X aa damage with 2 items. Removing his crit would prevent him from doing that while still outputting a reasonable amount of damage. Your yasuo build just doesn't have the DPS and your argument of him being able to be played tank because he has good base damages is very flawed because Yasuo has terrible base damages.

I am perfectly willing to accept a single sentence that can disprove my point, but I am not willing to accept it when you post a video as your point rather than using it to support a point. My issue with your argument it that half the time it isn't your argument. If you post someone else's video without explaining how it supports your point then that isn't you posting a video supporting your argument, that is you posting a video of someone else's argument as your own. My issue is that instead of taking the time to support your own argument you say something is true because someone else said it is true.

If you were to give a point, link said video and go "at X time you can see how Y person makes the point that Blah Blah Blah which is supported by the evidence given in the video." Instead what you have been doing is going "X is true because I said so and the guy in this video agrees."

That is not evidence. That is finding someone who agrees with your argument and saying that because they play the current version of a champion they know exactly what will happen if their crit chance is removed. Even if their point is completely valid and they put real effort and research into it I could accept their point. However this is not a conversation about what they said. Linking an entire video and saying that it is correct, regardless or how correct it may or may not be, doesn't support your own argument. If you are trying to have a proper discussion you cite a video and explain how and why that video supports your argument.

You did this much better in your most recent comment which I thank you for. However you have to keep in mind a couple things.

We are talking about a hypothetical situation in which yasuo doesn't have crit. My argument was that him not having crit makes his damage too low to build tank. As such Yasuo builds that utilize crit aren't actually an effective argument because they are assuming the doubling of crit.

Furthermore you are linking a guide with 0 upvotes, is outdated enough to assume Trinity still has crit (last update path 6.15), and is written by someone with barely 50k mastery on Yasuo to date making it only his 3rd highest mastery champion. Lastly although I personally always take this statistic with a grain of salt he made this guide when he was in Gold 4 and had only recently started playing yasuo. In fact he specifically refers to himself as an Irelia main.

One or two of those I might ignore, but all of them together leads me to be doubtful of it's validity in an argument.

PS: (that one upvote on it now is me, I wasn't sure if it just wasn't updating so I checked. Interestingly enough once you upvote you can only change to a downvote, not just remove it so I left it as an upvote.)

doiminat0r3600Feb 27, 20171 votes

Timmy timmy all i'm seeing is a wall of text. Atleast provide me with some eye candy. If this argument is so important to you, try different things to get it across to me. Please for the love of god, watch the video.

I know eveything is outdated. But that's what it is if they have nothing else. If they cant build crit, they go to the next best thing, which is tank.

So please. Try to understand other points of view that isn't your own.

Fondling GemsFeb 27, 20171 votes

You say like Crit and Tank are the only two options. Lethality, bruiser, full AD. There are other options. When a champion doesn't have enough base damage to kill things while building tank (which Yasuo doesn't as I showed by comparing him to other champion's base damages) and the champion doesn't have enough hard CC to justify a utility role (Which Yasuo doesn't as he needs AS to use his CC which makes him squishier) there isn't much reason to play him tank.

Furthermore I watched the video from the point you linked me to and there was no mention of removing his crit so I fail to see what you are attempting to prove with it unless you didn't mean to link me halfway into the video.

doiminat0r3600Feb 27, 20171 votes

I never said there are only 2 options. I just said that the next path that Yasuo would take is going tanky.
You didn't watch the video. I know you didn't. You would have seen the specific part about crit at 8 - 10.5 minutes in. That's almost 1/10th of the video Since you clearly didn't even watch it to it's entirety, here is the quote:

Yasuo's critical strike passive is what balances Yasuo the most. Why? Because it manipulates his builds. This is riot's way of telling us that "Hey, you should build these items that have absolutely no defensive stats instead of these items that have a bunch of health and cooldown reduction. This kills 2 birds with 1 stone by guaranteeing that atleast 2 of his items give absolutely no defensive stats whatsoever.

I just wish you actually watched it... It's not hard. Even having it on in the background would be better than nothing. All you need to do is listen and realize that this was made shortly after his nerfs to get rid of tank yasuo. Everything is laid out in that video. So understand, that what he, the true Yasuo main says, is true.

Fondling GemsFeb 27, 20171 votes

Sorry mb on this one. I missread what you typed as "If you can't go crit you have to go tank" rather than "If you can't go crit the next best thing is tank." My fault, sorry.
Well of course I didn't see it then, considering I even mentioned that you linked me half way through the video one would think you would take time to check your link. Your link starts at 16 minutes in so I assumed I was supposed to watch from there. I will now go back and watch from 8 minutes.

Fondling GemsFeb 27, 20171 votes

Alright I went back and watched the part where he covers crit-less yasuo. I agree with most of what he says but I still think there are some things that he didn't cover well. He says that yasuo will build CDR which is silly, as only 2 of his abilities scale with CDR. Black cleaver could be bought, but since the build path for it has changed into something even worse for yasuo since the video was released his laning would suffer heavily from rushing it. He would be much more likely to build a Rav which incidentally the videos agrees with.

On top of that the video was made before lethality became the powerhouse that it is today. Considering yasuo does mostly physical damage, can use windwall as cover while charging Edge of Night, and scales quite well with raw AD I think it would be more likely to see him following a lethality build path as it still allows him to retain most of his bully pressure in lane while he loses that lane pressure going full tank.

Remember that most of the items listed in the video were quite a bit more offensively stated back when the video was made. Furthermore yasuo didn't have the E changes he recently got which cut back on his base damages quite a bit. In the context of those things the same build now will provide quite a lot less damage without providing much else in return.

Commader KiwiFeb 24, 20173 votes

dude - yasuo is soo hard to play - why make it harder ? theres a reason you dont see yasuo in the lcs . HE is not easy

Nameless VoiceFeb 24, 20176 votes

Implying that people who make their living playing the game wouldn't be able to master a champion, regardless of complexity, if they had a reason to.

Being "hard to play" is not the reason why he is almost never picked in LCS.

abca98Feb 24, 20171 votes

Yeah, it's so hard to play, that's why I find an average of 2 Mastery 7 Yasuos everyday.

AmazoXFeb 25, 20171 votes

Yeah claiming that, So hard to play = Must not play this champion.

Spicy RiceFeb 24, 20174 votes

Aight, where is the qualitative/quantitative data that you are using to determine that this is a fact?

DonGiovanniFeb 24, 20174 votes

TahmKench : I spice my soups up with Yasuo and top it with a hint of Riven .

AmazoXFeb 25, 20173 votes

Ladies and Gentlemen, Guanxi is stating a FACT

So much: Data,Evidence,Point,Argument.Proof,Qualitative/Quantitative data.

Troll SlaiyerFeb 24, 20172 votes

nothing counters an actual good yasuo with full build

GULAG 4 UFeb 25, 20171 votes

Hm, I'm pretty sure high elo players are more than capable of being good on him. So can you explain me why no one in challenger is picking yasuo nonstop for freelo? Also the average high elo game lasts 26 minutes. There is no lategame.

SlashStrikerFeb 24, 20172 votes

I can assure you Cassiopeia kit is based on Toxicity

lilycuFeb 25, 20171 votes

Urgot is way more toxic and singed too just stating facts

Irelia BotFeb 25, 20171 votes

Teemo Does this look like the face of mercy?

You know that blond doctor who everyone says is getting it on with the Egyptian lady.

VelvetCrotchFeb 25, 20171 votes

nice job mate cause about 40% of the community is only bitchy and whiny without any reasonable reason - or "fanboying"... SO annoying.

Odyssey YasuoFeb 26, 20171 votes

Guessing you just got stomped by a good yasuo, and you don't know how to counter him?

I don't play yas.

PermabannedGarenFeb 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Not a bitchy and whiny post

It would only not be a bitchy and whiny post if you provided any reasoning my poorly educated friend. You did not, and were content with bitching and whining.