Might as well change the name "support" to "assassin".

Guanxi·Jan 28, 2017·10 votes·1,786 views

Pretty sure they weren't designed to do this. I'm not going to point fingers at who these champions are, but they do the same amount of damage as a mid lane assassin does.

53 Comments

Big LincolnJan 28, 20176 votes

Zyra Velkoz Malzahar need to fuck off tbh

sobi999Jan 28, 20173 votes

Annie Velkoz Lux Malzahar Syndra Zyra Fiddlesticks Cassiopeia Bard Morgana Karma Veigar Zilean Xerath Sona

Karma + morgana can do insane damage with just their Q especially karma's Q + ult but not really burst you down. Morg maybe can if she snares and W and ult. The rest of the champs can defo 100-0 an adc but supp's like malz, syndra and caso are popular in this season. Annie, brand, Lux, Velk are a little bit older and can burst pretty nicely. Full AP bard and sona can take significant pool of a squishes health with 1 their Q's and veig, fiddle need no clarification on this matter. Not sure if all of them can go tie to tie with assassins but they all have insane damage or ability to do 100-0 combo.

Traditional supp are dying Alistar Braum Janna Soraka Sona Nami Leona TahmKench

S0kaXJan 28, 20171 votes

So you're including Bard at the OP support, but no Sona. Are you kidding me??

sobi999Jan 28, 20171 votes

Full AP bard and full AP sona yes :D just let me know of any mistakes or changes :)

Sona has been dying bc of new mage supp but bard was always a rare sight. The OP supp are not the list of most commonly played supp but rather those that can do insane damage that which normally you wouldn't expect from a supp.

ArakadiaJan 28, 20173 votes

Bard is no world does as much damage as Rengar, Zed, LB, Kha, etc.

Even full AP Bard is pretty late game. And you can't list full AP Bard as normal Bard, if thats what u mean. Bard sure does have good damage, but only for a support.

sobi999Jan 29, 20171 votes

Yes that OP list of supp is not only the list of supp's that can 100-0 but also those that can deal insane damage for a supp. I also stated that most of these have "insane damage or ability to do 100-0". Bard is fine as a supp though i mean unlike other mage supp. You just wouldn't expect his damage if he goes full AP.

TNHA BaritoneJan 28, 20171 votes

You listed Sona TWICE as a Traditional Support and as one who can burst you down.
More than half of the champions in the first list are mages.
Fiddle, Bard, Karma, Morgana, Zilean, and Sona cannot 100-0 anyone as a support. If this is happening to you, you're lacking HP or MR OR they were already fed.

sobi999Jan 29, 20171 votes

I know i did. Sona if she goes full AP can burst you down fast. Her Q and ult can do significant amount of damage but probably wont kill you. I am only talking about 100-0 adc/squishy so we already are presuming they probably don't have MR/armor. Also that list is not the list of 100-0 supp but also those that can deal insane damage even whilst being a supp and that which you wouldn't expect.

TNHA BaritoneJan 29, 20171 votes

I know i did. Sona if she goes full AP can burst you down fast. Her Q and ult can do significant amount of damage but probably won't kill you. I am only talking about 100-0 adc/squishy so we already are presuming they probably don't have MR/armor.

Supports cannot afford full AP builds unless they are insanely fed. Also, you do understand that people do not retain base resistances for the entirety of the game AND that a standard/effective support build does not include magic penetration right?

Also that list is not the list of 100-0 supp but also those that can deal insane damage even whilst being a supp and that which you wouldn't expect.

All of those champions either have a PRIMARY ROLE as MAGE or a SECONDARY ROLE as MAGE. They have to have burst.

sobi999Jan 29, 20171 votes

Same goes for HP which increases with level but so does the level of abilities and their base damage and the amount of AP you get from items that scales into your abilities. I guess if squishies don't get any resistance throughout the game supp can do significant amount of damage. Also i usually go full AP on lux after sightstone. Just harass in lane and Q + ult to shut down. Usually though i prefer soraka as my main supp. I am not against burst of mages but it's just that they are very effective bot lane and adc (usually late game carry) are already weak early game. So basically it's optimal to go burst mage supp in this meta.

Joseph GladstoneJan 28, 20172 votes

Anivia

Divine WindsJan 28, 20172 votes

Anivia

why is it green

inhale the memsJan 28, 20172 votes

{quoted}

why is it green

thats blue

Risk of FateJan 28, 20173 votes

It's Aqua/Turquoise, get it right.

Dominick DestineJan 28, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fate Fire,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JTmxX4fF,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-28T17:26:59.329+0000)

It's Aqua/Turquoise, get it right.

I've never met a man that said "That is a lovely Aqua/Turquoise shirt you have" that didn't get immediately punched and/or shamed for such a comment.

Only Taric can get away with it because he's too man mode.

Risk of FateJan 28, 20171 votes

I do graphic design so I'd rather say the color than a color it isn't. If you want, it's blue/green more on the green side.

Dominick DestineJan 28, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fate Fire,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JTmxX4fF,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-28T17:38:33.232+0000)

I do graphic design

Pfft, I'm a dentist and have a huge........ shirt.

I'd rather say the color than a color it isn't

I think you mean the color it is than a color it isn't, but whatever the idea was conveyed, my point is you are being pedantic.

Risk of FateJan 28, 20171 votes

Yeah, that's what I meant. Three nearly sleepless nights over brother's wife in the hospital (appendicitis) ruins typing. Also I was just being cute, sheesh.

ArakadiaJan 28, 20171 votes

In my youth, I swore dentists were hellish beings sent to Earth to torment the living. I hated dentists. Course you might be different.

Dominick DestineJan 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

In my youth, I swore dentists were hellish beings sent to Earth to torment the living. I hated dentists. Course you might be different.

I'm not.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA, ask Ariel the Cruel. In comparison to me, he is a noble and harmless individual. I should be renamed Dominck Destine The Cruel but that would kind of seem like we're in a homosexual relationship and I'm just not ready for that kind of commitment yet.

No but seriously, the dentists you were told about or that mistreated you were probably the old guard.... modern dentistry is a lot more about comfort of the patient rather than efficiency, which is admittedly a trade-off but whatever, you know what I mean.

Work fast = More pain Work slow = Less pain

Work fast = More money Work slow = Less money

Do you see the conflict of interest? that is what we are taught to ignore... or at least I was.

Dominick DestineJan 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

why is it green

U racis bro?

We're all the same color on the inside.

Joseph GladstoneJan 29, 20171 votes

no idea, it was this color for fizz at one point as well

LiofaJan 28, 20172 votes

wahhhh i got hit by abilities and took damage wahhhhhhh

ArakadiaJan 28, 20172 votes

Oh please. The only "supports" that have damage comparable to someone like Zed, Kat, Talon, LB, etc. are Brand, Zyra, Vel' Koz, Annie, etc. who ARENT supports.

And Assassins aren't doing crap damage, its just that its delayed and things like that.

HKT SaberJan 28, 20171 votes

uh... i can only think of zyra support who are you talking about?

Rax ReformedJan 28, 20172 votes

HKT SaberJan 28, 20172 votes

well that's only 2 supports with high dmg

ChaddyFantomeJan 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Traditional supports dunk his ass tho. Legit get any support with a shield. Lulu Janna Karma with Windspeakers and he will do zero damage in lane to your ADC.

GuanxiJan 28, 20174 votes

Zyra Veigar Lux Velkoz Karma Lissandra

GuanxiJan 28, 20171 votes

To name a few.

EndlessSorcererJan 28, 20178 votes

So, mages.

Not assassins.

GuanxiJan 28, 20173 votes

No one plays supports anymore, that's the point i'm making. And an assassin is considered someone who can kill you pretty much with a full combo mid to late game. So yes, assassins.

GuanxiJan 28, 20171 votes

You're being to technical.

CheekynorthJan 28, 20177 votes

Wait, why are you talking to yourself?

CheekynorthJan 28, 20177 votes

What, have you never had a conversation with yourself before?

GuanxiJan 28, 20171 votes

The fuck are you talking about?

CheekynorthJan 28, 20171 votes

You replied to your own comment. You told yourself you were being too technical

Legacy HydralphaJan 28, 20172 votes

I think they were talking to the other guy, just not by commenting on their post again but instead commenting on their comment. The one guy has a point, though, mages =/= assassins.

CheekynorthJan 28, 20172 votes

So you're saying that, rather than editing his comment he just replied to his own comment, making a rather humorous conversation?

Legacy HydralphaJan 28, 20171 votes

Of course. Studies show the highest form of humor is talking to yourself.

LauchmelderJan 28, 20171 votes

Yea, I heard about that too.

CheekynorthJan 28, 20171 votes

I'm so behind on the studies

Risk of FateJan 28, 20173 votes

Brand is squishy, Zyra hurts, Veigar is crap until he gets stacks, Lux is still pretty uncommon compared to things like Thresh/Zyra/Morgana, Vel'koz is one in a blue moon. He used to be more popular, but I don't think he's that big of a deal anymore, Karma hurts but her utility comes at the cost of numbers. Does anyone even use Lissandra as a support anymore?

Also, KARMA IS A DEFINED SUPPORT, the rest are all mages. You could take Karma mid, but good luck with that because, as I've said, her utility > damage numbers compared to other mages like Ahri or Orianna or even Taliyah. Take a tank against them or a Juggernaut like Darius, Lee Sin, Yasuo and ruin their day. Mages have burst and are countered by health and Magic Resist. Build it early enough, they can't scale well enough late game.

sobi999Jan 28, 20173 votes

We are specifically talking about mage supp vs adc's because lets face it, even assassins can't assassinate tanks in this meta. Supp like brand, annie, lux, velk, zyra can 100-0 an adc pretty nicely and now malz, caso and syndra are coming into meta and which also share the same ability. ADC's building MR is not what i would recommend really but if they want to then maybe they can just farm and play safe. Thresh, Morg and blitz have been common supp for a long time. Brand can burst both adc and the enemy supp together :D

ADC's are not weak but these new mage supp should not be bot at all.

GuanxiJan 28, 20171 votes

Thank you.

Risk of FateJan 28, 20172 votes

Personally I'll build one defensive item while ADC because I don't really like the glasscannon playstyle that mains can do. Anyway, ADCs are weak because they're all late-game oriented in a meta focused on early game pressure. Of course burst mages and tanks are going to be coming into the meta.

How to counter? Zed, Talon, LeBlanc, and Katarina are all great at taking down burst mages especially if they're rushing Moreo's first over a Seeker's. As for tanks, you have the Morello's, but then you have Liandry's, Rylai's, Executioner's Calling, Mortal, and Lord Dom which, in the times I have built it myself and seen others rush it against a Sona/Soraka lane, just shreds.

Also, Kayle, Vayne, and Quinn are great into tank heavy comps due to their shred, true and bonus damage respectively.

LovelleJan 28, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fate Fire,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JTmxX4fF,comment-id=000100010002,timestamp=2017-01-28T17:02:59.197+0000)

Brand is squishy, Zyra hurts, Veigar is crap until he gets stacks, Lux is still pretty uncommon compared to things like Thresh/Zyra/Morgana, Vel'koz is one in a blue moon. He used to be more popular, but I don't think he's that big of a deal anymore, Karma hurts but her utility comes at the cost of numbers. Does anyone even use Lissandra as a support anymore?

Also, KARMA IS A DEFINED SUPPORT, the rest are all mages. You could take Karma mid, but good luck with that because, as I've said, her utility > damage numbers compared to other mages like Ahri or Orianna or even Taliyah. Take a tank against them or a Juggernaut like Darius, Lee Sin, Yasuo and ruin their day. Mages have burst and are countered by health and Magic Resist. Build it early enough, they can't scale well enough late game.

Brand isn't that squishy , as he builds at least 2 HP items, which is more than enough time to get an extra rotation off and take 1-2 champions down with him. To put it into perspective, he's one of the strongest mages on Twisted Treeline, which a map generally dominated by Bruisers, tanks, and bursty fighters like Riven/Yasuo. He can hold his own against anyone there, which means he isn't as vulnerable as you might think.

http://www.metasrc.com/all/3v3/current/tierlist http://www.metasrc.com/all/3v3/current/champion/brand

EvilMerodachJan 28, 20171 votes

I'm not going to point fingers

{quoted}

points fingers

Rammus ok

ArakadiaJan 28, 20172 votes

Liss supp doesn't turn out well.

TNHA BaritoneJan 28, 20171 votes

If you let an unfed support Karma kill you 1v1, something is wrong with you. She has a lot of burst but it's very easy to escape or bait out and it's not enough to kill unless you're low.