Curious How Popular This Idea Is...

Poro Lord·Sep 24, 2018·142 votes·19,550 views

Game mode with NO summoners, and NO runes.

I personally think it sounds super fun.

Really just getting to the kit of the champ you choose, and maximizing it.

Please don't say "Champions like NEED FLASH OR SHE WOULD BE GARBO!"

I have seen that every time the subject is brought up....

She could be buffed you know.. or buy ect.

Also if people did not have Flash - Heal - Barrier .... would that not buff 's ability to blow people the fuck up?

I am gonna guess.... prolly 1-5% of people agree with me, and this is a dead horse.

I however really like the idea, of just slowing things down.

I like to play the same champ for tons of games, and learn the kit.

Then use that kit to its max potential.

82 Comments

Ok sure but whySep 24, 201828 votes

Personally, every champion should be balanced around the idea that spells and runes don't exist

Chembaron YamadaSep 24, 201812 votes

For the general game? That wouldn't work, since some champions just synergise better with specific runes than others.

For example, Shyvana can abuse press the attack greatly thanks to her Q. If you balance without these in mind, then balance in general goes down the drain.

Lil Homie bustaSep 24, 20187 votes

The problem is that you lock a champion with a certain setup. Without it, the champion becomes weak. This leads to a very strict and boring meta, which is one of the problems that we face today.

I believe that no game play mechanics should exist in pre game. No runes besides stats nor summoners spells. But that would never work, since those exist since the beginning.

ZackTheWaffleManSep 24, 20184 votes

#Ideally,

you could just balance champions without having to account for runes or anything

MasterEvawesomeSep 25, 20182 votes

The main problem with the runes are keystones. They are way to strong and not needed imo. The only problem with removing keystones from what I see is that inspiration will need some changing.

Ok sure but whySep 25, 20182 votes

That's because Riot creates and balances champions around runes and summoner spells! That's the problem!!

Sheen items have the same problem -- forcing champions to play around it. I would LOVE to play Rageblade+Lethal Tempo Camille, but since she's been forced to be a spellblade bruiser, that's just not a viable option. The same goes with Skarner!

If a champion is allowed to be absurdly overpowered solely because she's only good when her flash is up Annie , then we've reached a flaw in design.

FawkseaSep 24, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ok sure but why,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PAWAmFr2,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-09-24T03:17:29.310+0000)

Personally, every champion should be balanced around the idea that spells and runes don't exist

thats what they did with morde

LHR ShyvanaSep 25, 20182 votes

If riot could balance lol

ZaFishboneSep 25, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ok sure but why,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PAWAmFr2,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-09-24T03:17:29.310+0000)

Personally, every champion should be balanced around the idea that spells and runes don't exist

You can't do that, precisely because summoners and runes DO exist. If you balance a champ without taking runes into consideration, you get such wonderful things like early S8 Kleptomancy Ezreal. I mean I like the champ, basically the only ADC I occasionally play, but he was a monster earlier this season, because they didn't take runes into account.

CrestfallenNightSep 24, 201823 votes

Yeah, I could agree with this.

flibitydooSep 24, 201811 votes

rip junglers that need smite I guess

Poro LordSep 24, 20182 votes

{quoted}

rip junglers that need smite I guess

True lol.

It is not a polished game-plan, I will give you that.

AlzonSep 24, 20181 votes

But junglers also get easy ganks cuz no flash.

DuskDaUmbreonSep 24, 20181 votes

They do also get harder times ganking, though. No flash to kill with.

AlzonSep 24, 20181 votes

How many times have you flashed from a gank without the jungler flashing? A lot more than when both of you flash, that’s for sure.

Stróc DúnmharúSep 24, 20184 votes

Easy fix. Give Hunter's Machete/Talisman and all of the jungle items an active ability, and that active ability is actually just Smite. Hell, red Smite and blue Smite can even keep their effects on champions.

420 gramsSep 24, 20189 votes

Hard core mode: no runes, no summoners, no hud, no health bars, no mini map.

Dr PoroSep 24, 20181 votes

The no hud and no health bar part I've experienced (through a bug)... It's fucking unplayable lmao. But would be fun if it was like that for everyone I guess.

ZackTheWaffleManSep 24, 20181 votes

Me too. Just restart and hope that you don't get leaverbustered/miss cs

Dr PoroSep 24, 20181 votes

Yeah, I know. But it only happened in ARAMs so far so it was fun taking the challenge. :)

haaaaaaalpSep 24, 20188 votes

I don't think too many people would necessarily disagree with the idea. The entire idea of the masteries and runes haven't really lived up to what people thought they would be. The only difference would be number changes to rebalance champions.

That being said, I think the worst thing that riot can do is to constantly change/add/remove the runes. They need to just stick with one system, it doesn't matter which, and balance around that system.

Baron BarianSep 24, 20187 votes

Sooooo….Dota?

Poro LordSep 24, 20186 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baron Barian,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PAWAmFr2,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-09-24T02:02:16.846+0000)

Sooooo….Dota?

Never played it, but from what I hear it is very different in other ways.

I have heard people compare the two games, and I don't remember summoners, and runes even being mentioned.

I'm saying I believe you it is a distinct difference, but maybe not the crux of why people enjoy league over DOTA.

Need Gold 4 TentSep 24, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Poro Lord,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PAWAmFr2,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-09-24T03:02:28.952+0000)

Never played it, but from what I hear it is very different in other ways.

I have heard people compare the two games, and I don't remember summoners, and runes even being mentioned.

I'm saying I believe you it is a distinct difference, but maybe not the crux of why people enjoy league over DOTA.

Some heros in DotA are literally forced to buy dagger (Dota's "Flash" item that is quite long range but can only be used out of combat) which costs about 2k gold with no stats on it. If not, they don't function. And they have talents, which are runes in a sense tailored to each hero's skill set.

JohnnyNeverSinsSep 24, 20185 votes

Gamemode without the current fucking runes,might make the game 10x better

SugeMinPikkSep 24, 20183 votes

5 assassins vs 5 assassins

RanmiakuSep 24, 20182 votes

{quoted}

5 assassins vs 5 assassins

they've kinda already done that :P

TekkenPlayerSep 24, 20183 votes

mid lane would be flooded with zed players and other assassins top lane would be flooded with lane bullies and hypermobile carries

You do realize that flash gives people equal control of whether they can stall or shorten a game? Otherwise champion kits would be the only determining factor if one lane opponent steamrolls another, and midlane in particular is less and less skill based so a Lux or Velkoz would be able to do nothing against the likes of Zed Yasuo etc

Poro LordSep 24, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=AÏnz Ooal Gown,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PAWAmFr2,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2018-09-24T07:22:35.155+0000)

mid lane would be flooded with zed players and other assassins top lane would be flooded with lane bullies and hypermobile carries

You do realize that flash gives people equal control of whether they can stall or shorten a game? Otherwise champion kits would be the only determining factor if one lane opponent steamrolls another, and midlane in particular is less and less skill based so a or would be able to do nothing against the likes of etc

I'm sorry, but I'm gonna have to ask for some explanation.

If you flash away from an assasin in mid, or a lane bully in top, they can also react with their own flash, and be right on top of you still....

Now maybe its not an exact cancelation of the original flash, because now you are under tower, or NOT under tower, minions waves, yada yada, so sure, it can be offensive/defensive....but

I feel like I could just spin the logic in the other direction, and say Zed would get owned by a good Velkoz, or Lux.

Once they land a good spell chain, HE can't just flash away, and reset.

Once he tower dives them HE can't just flash to avoid that last tower-shot.

I'm not saying your wrong, I just aint seein it.

Please enlighten me.

NyarlathοtepSep 24, 20181 votes

Actually,

If you flash away from an assasin in mid, or a lane bully in top, they can also react with their own flash, and be right on top of you still

Oke here's how reflexes work. A zed has flash and a q and wants to flash q on his target. His target too has a flash. However his target wont be able to flash from his flash+q UNLESS he is 100% expecting the order of flash and then q. And while he can do that its not always the best options since this will make you well sensitive ( by that i mean you will flash literally to anything, like him just q to your direction despite being in a safe location).

But anyway what ainz wanted to say is that mid lane would flood with champs that have huge mobility and are difficult to punish (btw this would also mean that zed would go extinct in high elo but i digress, fuck that guy).

Why pick a mage when he can easily be ganked have generally weak lane phase, have big limitations ( cds, mana, limited dps if they are forced to buy defensive items) when you can just pick talon or akali? I mean sure those guys lack the cc a mage has but mages would most likely struggle to keep up with the assassins and their jungler.

I feel like I could just spin the logic in the other direction, and say Zed would get owned by a good Velkoz, or Lux.

Thats a very bad zed indeed.

Biscuit BiteSep 24, 20182 votes

Being able to play as a minion? Count me in!

Daddy AntsSep 24, 20182 votes

Sure if Mobility is handled in a way to keep things fair.

Certain champs will dominate the game mode.

Camille, Zed, Talon, Leblanc etc

Poro LordSep 24, 20182 votes

And I mean, OBVIOUSLY there would need to be some balance changes.

Someone mentioned Camille as a champ who would run wild without everyone having flash.

I maintain that although a good player will use flash vs Camille at the right moment, a good Camille will just use HER 5 minute CD flash, and finish what she started.

Maybe her win-rate would climb.

Maybe she would need a nerf.

Would her win-rate go to game-breaking busted figures?

I don't really see why.

I mean Flash has a FIVE MINUTE CD! What is the cool-down on her wall flippy thing?

The game would IMO just be slower, less flashy kills, and more "This dude is 100% dead" moments.

Less wildcard outplays.

More memorizing champions cool-downs, knowing your match-ups, and outplaying over a number of trades.

More low HP mages white knuckle farming under tower at 10% HP, praying to dodge the next Shurukins.... currently, Zed just says "I missed my Q.. fuck it, Ill just FLASH IGNITE E"

MordepoolSep 24, 20182 votes

I'd. Play it. If anything it would showcase how much flash has become a crutch to cover up the weaknesses of certain champions. I could say with almost 99% certainty. Morde would lose to over 90% of his match ups (the other 10% being Melee)

Neptunia xoxoSep 24, 20181 votes

Literally is going to be whoever picks mobile champs and who doesn't. Idea honestly just sounds bad.

Olga RajeckaSep 24, 20181 votes

It doesn't work. Overwatch already tried it, so did Heroes of the Storm. Both are boring af. The game loses a whole layer of depth / strategy without Runes. Even Dota2 added a similar system in the form of talents.

VerxintSep 25, 20181 votes

I've wanted something like this for a while.

Shinnobi3Sep 25, 20181 votes

What about a gamemode with no limits to the amount of items you can buy??

Poro LordSep 25, 20181 votes

.... Ill try here again.

FLASH HAS A 5 min CD

Most mobility spells are not ultimates, they are QWE spells, with a sub 20 second CD.

Basically what people are saying, (then giving zero explanation as to why) is that somehow a non-mobile champion, NEEDS the 5 min flash, to deal with a mobile champion, or they stand no chance.

If you REALLY NEED flash to face a mobile champ, then every time a non-mobile champion was forced to flash early, they would do nothing but feed every 20 seconds, for 5 minutes, until flash is available again.

You act like, "Damn Zed forced my flash, GG, ill sit at base for 5 minutes."

You just need to play safer for 5 minutes.

And AGAIN, these mobile champions would ALSO BE LOSING FLASH.

I mean I get it, Flash is a great escape for non-mobile champions.

Flashing once every 5 min (assuming you pop it on CD) is not the ONLY thing just keeping them from dieing EVERY FUCKING TIME the other guy flips, or dips.

Stop just saying that.

Give a though out theory, or body of evidence, as to why not having flash, makes any mobility spell godlike.

I feel like I'm arguing with a broken record.

WhistersnivetSep 25, 20181 votes

Don't spoil season 9 [sg-janna]

HollowchazzSep 25, 20181 votes

I don't like it, It's fun and untilts me playing around with runes and trying new builds.

I miss the old runes and masteries though, i felt like there was more choice and cool utility options available. Like hp regen akali with 37 per 5 at lv1, perma health pot, good times.

D00m BringerSep 25, 20181 votes

Not sure if anyone is going to read this, but feel like I should throw in my opinion. A new gamemode, or hell even just a new option for SR games (draft, normals, ranked) with no spells or runes could be really fun. Reminds me of when I started playing, when I didn't use runes because they sounded like a crutch for people who need more help on a champ.

Emerald FangSep 25, 20181 votes

It's not going to work. It will make hypermobile champs the only reasonable champs to play since mages and juggernauts can't rely on any movement from Flash or runes, so hypermobile AD/AP assassins will be the only things viable.

Ulquiorra0123Sep 25, 20181 votes

Yep welcome to mobility wins. Sorry but Zed specifically would thrive in this gamemode and would be unbeatable in lane. There would be 0 counter to his all in. Mobility is already a problem in the game, it will be an even bigger problem without summoners. The powerful get more powerful, the weak get weaker. I do like the idea, I think now is not the time for a gamemode like this.

Sir PrepuziusSep 25, 20181 votes

but why? i mean, summoners and runes add complexity and widens the builds to what purpose dumb down the game?

Vanilla TrubbsSep 25, 20181 votes

I want a derp-mode, where all the derpiest derp shit is the only stuff available. Summoner spell choices would include Rally, Surge, Fortify, and Revive. Everyone would play champions with the relative strength of season 2 Evelyn. It would be glorious.

Meep ManSep 25, 20181 votes

There'd definitely be better champions over others since champions have now all been balanced around runes, with some relying on them more than others. It's an interesting idea, but it'd be unbalanced without going back and balancing each champion.