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There’s something I don’t understand about the mana/minions changes

Fisher No Chains··15 votes·7,131 views

So, as far as I know, both those changes were intended to make midlane less of a “shove and roam” lane and instead push people towards trading or risky plays.

Fair, I guess that a PvE environment for several minutes isn’t fun to play nor fun to watch in competitive; yet in SoloQ, in certain situations, those changes did the opposite thing.

For instance, I was a Syndra against Ekko. That matchup is rough, but I thought I could just farm and deal with his team later in the game, once I got some items and stuff. Tried to trade with him at levels 1 and 2 and noticed that my mana after some spells was at a critical level. Okay, after all I should learn to manage mana after the changes. But Ekko just started with Corrupting potion and Q’d the wave over and over, pushing me under my turret from level 2. I had no mana for both trading and farming, so I had to do one of those things in order to be relevant and not fall behind.

Well, since I already wasted some of my mana to harass him, I couldn’t effectively farm under turret and ended up losing almost half of the minions under my turret, until I finally got to buy Lost Chapter.

I understand that it was my fault there and that I shouldn’t have traded at all, but those changes kinda ruined midlane against some matchups.

It’s not just Ekko. Every manaless champion (even melee ones!) can just mindlessly shove mages under turret with 0 risks involved, since you can’t do both things (harass and farm) anymore after the mana changes.

Shortly: these changes did nothing to make midlane more fun or interactive. Now I won’t even remotely think to harass hard-shoving champions and instead I’ll save my mana to farm under turret and eventually push when they’re back to base. The worst thing is that champions that were trash at early pushing are now getting punished even more, and champions that could permashove can still do it, and it’s just slightly harder than before.

14 Comments

TS Media8 votes

Good. Learn to manage mana. Now they just need to hit every mana champ like that.

Fisher No Chains5 votes

So, why are manaless/energy based champions allowed to shove in a class that's supposed to clear waves? :)

TS Media2 votes

It's been like that from league started and people managed to do just peachy. I play mobas because I like the slight complexity and small intricacies they have going for them. League was my favorite moba because, although you couldn't just hop in and play it, you could hop in and enjoy the small aspects of it. It takes a bit of time to grow on you, but the fluidity and style of the game is very appealing, even if you have no idea what you're doing.

The appeal to casual gaming and balancing for pro play puts league in a very terrible spot. Skill expression goes down with each patch, and it's very hard to distinguish between good and bad players now. I've went up against challengers and high diamond players in flex and it's COMPLETELY different to me playing vs them before.

Before, I struggled so hard in lane. They zoned me off of cs with their "limited" mana pool and punished me for taking even one cs. Now? I'm on equal standing in the laning aspect. Why? Because I:

A. Can just wave clear and ignore them completely if I play mid B. Can take resolve and survive the laning phase with literally 0 issues because of the insane amount of sustain and survivability it gives C. Can outperform them if they play a carry champ and I play a tank

But, at the end of the day, the can still out macro me and knows the complete limits of their champ. So there's that. But even THEY can't 1v9 if I get my bot ahead before they do. Riot need to leave out making this game super casual, and just balance it as the competitive game it was meant to be.

ModWulf Helhammer3 votes

If Ekko started with corrupting pot, then that means he has less immediate power in his abilities, in return for better lane sustain. Doran’s Ring is the opposite. You have more umpf in your spells, but unless you hit them on the enemy champion, you aren’t doing anything worthwhile with that power.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

[{quoted}](name= Król Wilk Sam,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P6LTP3s8,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-05-04T18:30:16.584+0000)

If Ekko started with corrupting pot, then that means he has less immediate power in his abilities, in return for better lane sustain. Doran’s Ring is the opposite. You have more umpf in your spells, but unless you hit them on the enemy champion, you aren’t doing anything worthwhile with that power.

So what you are telling me is that I should never go Doran's and always go corrupting potion since if I don't play perfectly Doran's is worst in every situation

Illâoi Evê Siôn2 votes

{quoted}

So what you are telling me is

Please, don't.

Venompaw2 votes

uh what..... these changes give you MORE MANA to play with early on. making it more interactive.

Fisher No Chains13 votes

How do they give more mana? Mana growth got halved, doran’s doesn’t give mana per minion kill anymore, and the only thing that got “improved” is its passive mana regen, that’s now SLIGHTLY stronger.

Slythrin Umbreon11 votes

He means the extra I think 80 mana at level 1. Like, 1 extra spell cast, followed by immediate penalties for that extra mana.

Nyarlathοtep3 votes

They did buff the base mana at level 1 and overall mana regen . So strictly speaking until level 7 or 6 these changes are a buff. Late game are where the changes are hitting like a truck that cant be stomped.

Dont Blìnk5 votes

Math Time!!

Syndra +60 mama growth, 384 base: 444 lvl 2  504  lvl 3 564 lvl 4 624 lvl 5 +30 mama growth, 480 base: 510 lvl 2 540  lvl 3 570 lvl 4 600 lvl 5

Q cost at lvl 5 60 mana W cost at lvl 5 60 mana E cost at lvl 5 50 mana

Ekko +50 mana growth, 280 base: 330 lvl 2 380 lvl 3 430 lvl 4 480 lvl 5

Q cost at lvl 5, 70 mana W cost at lvl 5  50 mana E cost at lvl 5 40 mana

We can see some things here.

  1. You did in fact get compensated quite handsomely for the dorans changes, (remember your mana regen went up too)

  2. You played the match up terrifically bad if you just let Ekko push freely with no harass, which you can cs as well at the same time if you are good enough.

Btw I am aware it is a bad match up for Syndra, but if you actually had no mana while not being a kill threat to Ekko after he uses his core ability for trades on a wave, while you should have harassed him. You're just playing it wrong.

He can't even 2Q the wave, going to get that out of the way in case that argument is made, he has to walk up and auto the minions.

Illâoi Evê Siôn2 votes

You have 96 Mana, 4 Mana Regen per 5 seconds and 5 more physical damage on-hit than you had before the Mana changes at level 1. You lost 5 Mana per unit kill, which -- if you CS perfectly -- still means you only lose 6 Mana Regen per wave. For each CS you miss that amount is reduced by 5, and for each 5 seconds you spend away from killing minions that amount is further reduced by 4. So miss one CS and spend one second away from a lane and you automatically have more Mana Regen than before the changes.

At level 2 it's still 78.2 more Mana and 3.7 more Mana Regen per 5 seconds. Apply the numbers.

Tl;dr: The situation you described in your post would have been much worse before the changes.

Ifneth1 votes

I haven’t yet faced Yasuo. I am dreading it.

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