@Meddler-Repertoir As a 1k games Kass main, I disagree with these buffs and here is why.

Beoridas·8/23/2015, 3:34:43 PM·23 votes·2,665 views

Hey meddler-Repertoir. I know Kass threads are very rarely looked upon. But im asking you to read this and tell me what you think and if it is reasonable. I know the juggernaut update and reworks takes a lot of your time but im pleading for you to see this because i believe there is good solutions for an age long problem.

The day before champion.gg gathered all the data for patch 5.16.

Kassadin has a 42% win rate among plat+ and 46% among kass mains, He was close to be the very worst of dmg impact in a game. (43/47) At this moment: his win rate is 45% among plat+and 53% among kass mains.

Here is few issue with pre buff kass and issues with after buff kass.

1. His ult followed by his W was too hard to even proc.

His W currently has a very slow and VERY easy to cancel animation. Since his ult range is low and makes him vulnerable as he is in range of all adcs and mages to their aa's and abilities before he jumps in--He has a huge amount of clear weaknesses before he gets to apply his W proc. So in one way, he has to go in range and it puts him in a rough spot in team fights/poke wars etc... Hence giving a great amount of time for his enemies to know what are his intentions so that the target goes out of range and a tank/support puts himself in position for defense. Once in range, assuming he succeeded. His W animation is not only long to proc, but so easy to cancel that if the enemy was watching pornography while playing he would still have time to walk out of range of his W. In the case he Q+E, he has to stay an extra 1 second for his slow to do its work and then try to burst (and he couldnt burst 100-0 before) when facing a mobile adc--that adc usually exit that range and E slow timer and it means kassadin is in deep poop.

**2.**His overall dmg and base dmg.

His base dmg being nerfed to support level means he needed at least 4 kills AHEAD to even match the enemy's base dmg (assuming the enemy didnt buy any items yet) which he is technically unable to do (match their dmg)--assuming Riot wanted him weak early. He then needed to compensate this with his ratios and farming which prevent his roams.

Q+E at max level used to be 280 dmg. Its now 170. thats 220 dmg difference. With his current ratios--thats equivalent to 328 AP= A rabadons, ROA and void staff difference. (lets not forget that E is not always up in lane which increase that dmg gap)

Every mage has higher base dmg, a lot of them has better ratios. And AP assassins like LB-fizz-ekko has better base dmg than he does and ratios (and two of them has scaling MR.)

CONLUSION: His base dmg means it is too difficult for average players or non-mains to use to ever get to anything good. Even there, he was outmatched in his execution and overall dmg since his laning match ups had already 328 AP ahead at level 11 just with his base dmg. So it means that he needed buffs. But where?

here is what we asked for

1. Scaling MR: to effectively do what hes supposed to do. 2. Remove that W ratios and make it just proc for farming and mana refill. (or outright make it a passive aa ability) 2.B. Put all the W ratios to his R. (instead of W and R having ratios) 3. Increase his base dmg of Q+E to 220-240 at max level and see what happens.

here is what happened with the buffs and the effect it had

1. Mid game-late game dmg increase by +.2 to .6 ratio. That is equivalent to at 100 AP: +20-60 dmg. At 700 AP: +140-420 dmg So we can see it doesnt do much early, keeping his early problems still there, but giving him a massive spike mid late game.

1.5 (compared to Live kassadin in previous point 1) My suggestions is at 100 AP: +130 dmg. At 700 AP: - 420 to -190 dmg. (still a buff to pre buff kassadin)

(P.S: i believe he should be weak early. But that doesnt mean there isnt any issues with him early atm)

2. Those who mains him knows how to get ahead--taking advantage of that increase.

It creates a binary situation--you win lane (less likely) or you lose and probably dont come back. But for those that usually win lane and barely win the game: they now have a great tool to win.

Now im not saying he should lose games but im saying that this change benefits mainly his mains.

What should be done?

The change ive proposed--that kass mains proposed does these things:

1. Reinforcing his identity and make him relevant versus stronger mages and AP assassins who do have MR scaling. 2. base dmg means the average or new players can trade and be relevant mid games even if they lose their lane. 3 removing his W scaling and puting it straight to R means his mains and regular players alike can practice his rift-step hobby without the huge W hassle and without having that much extra dmg on tap (while keeping his pre 6 weak since he cant access to that dmg)

So we have a win-win situation.

P.S: I have dyslexia and im not an english born speaker so this was difficult to write.

Final thoughts: You also have a buff in MR items and health options. I think it is possible to make Kassadin both decent for lower elo, average users of the champ, and mains.

I think its a fair trade to buff his base dmg, without adding to his mid game-late game power (which the latter is stronger in numbers on live compared to what i propose)

That is why i think his current buffs only benefits a very strong minority without adressing the true problems.

So essentially removing the live buffs and changing them to what is proposed. gradually.

Thank you for reading :)

88 Comments

Transgressor8/23/2015, 8:02:26 PM8 votes

They don't care my friend, they never did. They pandered to the cries and complains. Now, I haven't read your whole statement, but that's because I used to be a Kassadin main, and I've felt EVERYTHING through and through(Kassadin was the first champion I bought in this game, and the Harbinger skin the first I ever bought). I pretty much know what you mean, we're on the same boat.

But I've given up on this, and moved along to other mains. That was the first and the last time such an atrocity was committed in this game; reworking a champion while completely ignoring feedback from Kassadin mains, ruining his identity twice in the process, ending up with a mobile AP bruising labeled as an anti-mage(LOLOLOLOL). Then gave him a sorry excuse of a rework. A disgusting half-assed attempt which could be delayed if it was known it'd turned out like that. Even the failures of Cassiopeia and Mordekaiser took feedback into account to an extend, and while both of them are failures at least they didn't fuckup their identities, nor granted them a disgusting VU.

Rant aside, I've even put some thought on a Kassadin rework taking into account both mine and the enemy's experience, while being a Kassadin main trying to keep his identity the same, contrary to the rework which just served to cater to the complains. But seeing the apathy and indifference from those who updated him, and the fact that we got an insulting VU to boot, I never looked into this any further.

Now he's sitting there. I literally haven't played him since the rework, and my favorite champion along with my first skin are gathering dust. And I feel sad, sad and dissapointed.

LadyRenly8/27/2015, 1:19:58 AM4 votes

Honestly, they should ditch his "anti mage" bologna and embrace what he really is, a slippery assassin. Veigar fits the bill more, at least he does DAMAGE to mages. Kass is too much of a pushover to even bully a mage.

Nekusen8/23/2015, 6:45:54 PM2 votes

His ult change is basically a "placebo buff", they want people to use Kassadin during this patch to figure out what to do with him, they did this mainly because Kassadin is basically not being used so they lack data.

Im not sure he needs more base damage.

  • Though he could get max-mana scaling with his basic abilities, which would add more base damage as he starts with some amount of mana, unlike AP

  • The charges on his E could be lowered to 4, or if kept at 6, either the CD or mana cost should be gutted (though that would have no visible effect)

  • Wouldn't mind his Q becoming a skillshot with some missile like Vel'Koz's Q if changed accordingly.

  • I would add 1 of these effects to his Q: 1- 0.75 silence on target 2- makes the target cast slower for 1.6 seconds, adding a casting time for it's abilities of 0.4 secs. 3- reduce the sight of the target to melee range. 4- shield negates the first negative spell cast on Kassadin (like banshee) 5- Make it interrupt stuff like Garen's spin, Sion's charge, etc. and/or disable auras and buffs.

Calabok9/9/2015, 7:27:51 PM2 votes

Don't buff him. How is Brand gonna survive?

Ionian8/23/2015, 5:23:55 PM1 votes

Idk why people complain about Kassadin's damage. Oh, he can't 100-0 a mage at level 6? Wow, trash champion. If an assassin can't 100-0 a mage at level 6 then it's not worth playing, right? Oh wait. Ahri He needs to poke before going in, in fact he has a targeted 650 range ability that ALSO gives him a shield to do so and not even take damage back. And a 15% magic dmg reduction passive. Not only that, but he also becomes the EASIEST champion in the game at level 6. Either make his Q a skillshot or change his R from blinks to dashes, and then you can start thinking about buffs. Disgusting champion.

Beoridas8/28/2015, 6:01:08 AM1 votes

im just wondering if Riot do ever read kass threads lol. i cant remember in 3-4 years a rioter talking about him. im not sure about reddit

Rand0mH3r0X9/9/2015, 6:05:40 PM1 votes

I disagree with these nerfs as well. Kassadin was able to create such an elongated poop onto Yasuo mid that the Jg always had to come and clean it up.

I hate that Riot is balancing around LC$ and Ca$h champions, but it's whatever. Free game.