I'm someone who's always enjoyed power farming. That said, why the hell did they make jungle exp worthless? The logic behind the change made absolutely no sense too. Riot basically said, "we don't like level 2 gankers, so instead of nerfing them specifically we're going to make junglers have less of an impact." Like, what?! Why? Just... why? [zombie-brand-mindblown]
Tobykachu49 votesThis is the most questionable nerf to LoL I've ever seen in my life. It did not fix ANY of the problems with jungle. They still impact the game more than any other role simply by picking one lane and perma ganking it. The only difference is that going into the mid stages of the game they're not going to be as relevant? But that was never really an issue to begin with. I never saw a fed Lee Sin and think, damn, if only he was a level lower this game would have been won! The only thing it did was completely butcher farming junglers who were almost non existent anyway,
Saianna4 votesThis is the most questionable nerf to LoL I've ever seen in my life.
This is not the first time Riot has nerfed jungle exp actually.. Nor even the second I think :P
Tobykachu4 votesFar from, but all the other times it was because Junglers were getting further ahead in levels than their laners, which Riot never wanted. Every other time it was to tackle exp being a legitimate problem. This time it was for something completely unrelated.
heroikc28 votesAnd this was Riot's attempt to control level 2 gankers, wasn't it?[slayer-jinx-unamused] Riot needs to learn how to solve problems...
Super Sandmanne31 votesAnd this was Riot's attempt to control level 2 gankers, wasn't it?[slayer-jinx-unamused] Riot needs to learn how to solve problems...
Yeah fr lol. It basically just made perma gankers the only viable class of jungler.
heroikc3 votes[{quoted}](name=Super Sandmanne,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P1sE3PAz,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-03-10T02:04:13.822+0000)
Yeah fr lol. It basically just made perma gankers the only viable class of jungler.
It's not like the implications weren't obvious from the getgo; nerf early jungle? Better gank and not farm, then.
Yautja wannabe1 votes[{quoted}](name=Super Sandmanne,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P1sE3PAz,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-03-10T02:04:13.822+0000)
Yeah fr lol. It basically just made perma gankers the only viable class of jungler.
I've been spamming Rengar, and to be honest I've been having a LOT of success with him as usual. At the same time though, I notice that I'm anywhere between 1-2 levels behind where I'd normally be just because of the stupid ass exp nerf. Like, wtf was Riot thinking?
Crescent Dusk8 votes[{quoted}](name=Yautja wannabe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P1sE3PAz,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2019-03-10T04:01:51.952+0000)
I've been spamming Rengar, and to be honest I've been having a LOT of success with him as usual. At the same time though, I notice that I'm anywhere between 1-2 levels behind where I'd normally be just because of the stupid ass exp nerf. Like, wtf was Riot thinking?
Just think yourself as another support champ and then the level disparity won't bother you as much ;p.
Ragnaveil3 votesA support champion with more farm and a required summoner spell.
Crescent Dusk1 votesA support champion with more farm and a required summoner spell.
A required summoner spell that turns games around, so let's not whine about smite when it gets you dragons and baron. Upgraded smites are pretty damn good as well, chilling smite snare has secured me more kills than ignite ever has.
Ragnaveil1 votesThe smite reference was just referring to the fact its necessary. Its still a good summoner. Im just agreeing with the fact junglers kinda feel like a second support, especially with how top lane is at the moment. More times than not they are forced to babysit the lane.
Dewott6103 votesif you're 
, that shouldn't be too much of an issue
BestPudgeNA3 votes[{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P1sE3PAz,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2019-03-10T04:11:37.830+0000)
Just think yourself as another support champ and then the level disparity won't bother you as much ;p.
Think of yourself as a support champ that will be blamed for everything always and doesn't get support itemization. Then it won't bother you as much because you will stop playing League
Sir Saltarin1 votesJunglers are the most opressed minority on League of Legends.
Riot should buff Jungle.
BestPudgeNA1 votes[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P1sE3PAz,comment-id=000100000001000000020000,timestamp=2019-03-11T11:51:56.364+0000)
Junglers are the most opressed minority on League of Legends.
That's cleaver. How is that working out for you?
OJVKD1 votesThey have made a jungle inferior to any other lane ,it is maybe good for jungler s to have lesser presure in early game so that other players dont lose control over their lane before mid game starts , but these changes made a junglers a targets to be ganked and counter ganked even by enemy laners becoue they are weaker than any other lane , and 1-2 of disandvage behaind other players can get even worse when enemy layners can clear at least 1 jg camp fast and get into lane in early game or when ur lane looses a tower in early game and than enemy laner and junglers only priority is to counter jungle weakest player what can result in 3-4 levels of disadvantge in comparation to other players until you get to the late game , and I think no one does not want to play someone inferior to others for 40-50 minutes , i hate these changes
Super Sandmanne12 votesYou speak the true true
Ragnaveil12 voteshttps://clips.twitch.tv/TsundereIncredulousTigerShadyLulu Its so bad that even Kobe addressed it on stream. Thats when you know its gone too far in the wrong direction.
ModAcademy Kayn1 votesHere's an obviously jokey video that's making fun of the exact change but not the impact, while also going after the other typical things that Junglers experience, like being blamed for someone losing their lane, or being the reason they lost the game. Yes, let's use this as evidence that clearly this is the wrong direction.
Sure bud.
Ragnaveil3 votesIt doesn't matter if its a joke vid, it still makes a point. Hell, if you want proof, look at the meta picks for junglers. Gank Gank Gank Gank.
ModAcademy Kayn1 votesIt doesn't have a point, because it is a joke video. If there's any point to be taken from the video, it's the things he talks about the later half, not the first 2 lines.
iamthegoatofwar1 votesJokes can have a point just as tales made fun can still have a lesson behind them.
ModAcademy Kayn1 votesYes, and if you watch the video, the points are in the later half...not the set up of the joke. The entire premise is making fun of animal abuse ads, so they grabbed a nerf that's been affecting junglers to use for it. That alone does not dictate whether or not the nerf was a bad or good thing.
It's like watching the gamestop employee ad that did the same thing, and feeling sympathy for the employees in cages. That's not the point. The entire thing is how to stop blaming your jungler, and how to help them. Pay attention and help against invades, drop wards in river, listen to pings. All you people are doing is latching on to the first thing you hear that confirms what you dislike, and ignoring the rest.
iamthegoatofwar1 votesOh there is no ignoring you see I have mained all solo roles at some point or another. I do agree with the later points. But the fact the video was made in the 1st place and may people are saying that the exp nerf is a bit much and using this video to push that point is fine. Honestly the exp nerf hits jungle harder for farming junglers than it does ganking junglers whos job was to snowball the early game. Now they've made that issue worse.
ModAcademy Kayn1 votesI'm sorry, but I don't think it's fine. I think there's plenty of other ways to prove your point, but using a commentators joke sketch, as a reason, is not. The video was not made as a rebuff towards the jungle nerfs, it was using the jungle nerfs as a joke. It has no actual commentary, or points, or opinions actually relating towards the changes other than "They've been nerfed a lot."
I mean, that's a fact sure, but the good/bad nature of said nerfs can not be taken from that.
BigFBear10 votesYeah it's totally fun being lvl 4 while mid and top are lvl 6 already. Try to gank a lvl 6 Darius or Ilaoi when you are lvl 4!
FSRER8 votesAnd yet twitch will ALWAYS gank lvl 2 or he will remain useless all game....yeah, this solved much. Solved tank champions ability to go jungle. For example, i remember malphite jungle being good....hes not, i remember maokai jungle being good....hes not, i remember SKARNER jungle being good......welp, jungle left him like his home land.
huhndog2 votesI loved playing Zac jungle, but the enemy jungler seems to always invade leaving you 3 levels behind. Then your other laners start crying for you not ganking when you dont have enough xp to impact the game. Its such an ugly mess for tank jg rn
Copic4 votesI'm someone who's always enjoyed power farming.
Well, I don't.
Ganks are nice.
floo4 votesBut not gank after gank whenever someone respawns. Constant fights to death are boring since your chances will always be lower in a 2v3 and you dont get to actually play the game. If my lane is getting ganked, the game is just a roflstomp and not fun either. This win or lose from minute 2 on is getting lame.
Ragnaveil1 votesGanking as thing isn't the issue. Its the fact you can gank and then gank again without practically losing anything for it is the problem.
Flavi Kang1 votesAre you still going to be saying that if you are the one getting ganked 4 times in 5 minutes?
Galaxyburstz4 votesYeah, honestly I used to main jungling with 
but now I started playing them in the top lane.
In fact, I got so homesick of my main role I just take 
top, take either the raptors or wolves with 
of the enemy team at first clear, run to lane and abuse my level advantage while constantly roaming, warding, counter jungling, and securing/stealing objectives for my team.
I just want to go home, to my main role that Riot kind of pushed me out of, oh well I guess this must be something only other jungle mains would understand...
astralwit3 voteshaving reduced early xp as well as scuttlers pretty much pushes it to a level 2 jg meta since power farming and levelling is more difficult
anyway, I'm more salty about DH being in such a sad state as a late game rune for junglers (removing soul pickup also made it a boring rune)
QancerClown3 votesThey take 1 camp from my jng and i am 3 lvls behind and i didn't even fuck up anything yet xd
QuM1tSuk3 YT3 votesI used to just farm until lvl 6 as Kayn and start doing stuff and I carry . But, dark harvest got nerfs / Junglers got nerfs / exp in the jungle nerfed .
Phhase3 votesYeah, I have no idea what they were thinking. And you can still level 2 gank just the same, so the "problem" wasn't even fixed!
Daddy Ants2 votesMaybe some tuning related to red buff might combat level 2 gankers.
ModAcademy Kayn2 votesI'm a fan of it now honestly, even if I wasn't before. I've never felt so accomplished keeping track of the enemy jungler, and being able to deny them a lot of exp and gold from stealing their opposite camps when they gank. I've actually been invading more and more since that change, and I'm enjoying the role of jungle way more. I feel like I've actively gotten better at jungling, because being able to keep track of the enemy jungler so I can steal their stuff, is actively keeping me a higher level than them.
This is what I think people are missing. The changes weren't meant to stop level 2 gankers. People with good ganks, are always going to gank early. What it does, is allow them to be easily punished for early ganks, by denying them gold and exp that they would've gotten alongside the kill they maybe got while ganking. And if they didn't get the kill, then you've already hurt their ability to affect the game.
On all the Diamond videos I've watched, on how to be a better jungler, one of the core things has been paying attention to the enemy jungler's clear routes, and position on the map because he's your rival, your lane opponent without a lane. The same way laners manipulate the waves to deny CS and exp, you should be doing the same with the enemy jungler. You don't deserve just to have a nice safe place to afk farm so you can eventually emerge out the jungle to win the game, while effectively ignoring everyone else.
League is not a PvE game, if you want to power farm, you need to start invading, and actively punishing the enemy jungler for wanting to gank lanes. This is how you stay relevant in levels to laners. I know, because this is what I've been doing differently. It doesn't even need to be that much, a chicken camp, gromp, or depending on the jungler, you can steal their opposite buff while they're still clearing theirs or Scuttle (might want to ask teammates to ward your own though.)
Effectively, all that is just a long complicated way of saying 'git gud', but I think that folk like you have the wrong impression about the jungle. It's not a place to just farm gold and exp, the enemy's jungle is as much your playground as your own is. Win the game, by denying your enemy jungler the gold and exp they need, while keeping yourself ahead of them.
kuzzy475 votes[{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P1sE3PAz,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2019-03-10T17:48:16.861+0000)
I'm a fan of it now honestly, even if I wasn't before. I've never felt so accomplished keeping track of the enemy jungler, and being able to deny them a lot of exp and gold from stealing their opposite camps when they gank. I've actually been invading more and more since that change, and I'm enjoying the role of jungle way more. I feel like I've actively gotten better at jungling, because being able to keep track of the enemy jungler so I can steal their stuff, is actively keeping me a higher level than them.
This is what I think people are missing. The changes weren't meant to stop level 2 gankers. People with good ganks, are always going to gank early. What it does, is allow them to be easily punished for early ganks, by denying them gold and exp that they would've gotten alongside the kill they maybe got while ganking. And if they didn't get the kill, then you've already hurt their ability to affect the game.
On all the Diamond videos I've watched, on how to be a better jungler, one of the core things has been paying attention to the enemy jungler's clear routes, and position on the map because he's your rival, your lane opponent without a lane. The same way laners manipulate the waves to deny CS and exp, you should be doing the same with the enemy jungler. You don't deserve just to have a nice safe place to afk farm so you can eventually emerge out the jungle to win the game, while effectively ignoring everyone else.
League is not a PvE game, if you want to power farm, you need to start invading, and actively punishing the enemy jungler for wanting to gank lanes. This is how you stay relevant in levels to laners. I know, because this is what I've been doing differently. It doesn't even need to be that much, a chicken camp, gromp, or depending on the jungler, you can steal their opposite buff while they're still clearing theirs or Scuttle (might want to ask teammates to ward your own though.)
Effectively, all that is just a long complicated way of saying 'git gud', but I think that folk like you have the wrong impression about the jungle. It's not a place to just farm gold and exp, the enemy's jungle is as much your playground as your own is. Win the game, by denying your enemy jungler the gold and exp they need, while keeping yourself ahead of them.
"Look at me i'm so good y'all suck. Let me put this wall of text to show you how it's done."
ÈvilMorty2 votesgod forbid you play a tank jg that cant farm as effectively
EnlightenedBane2 votesI think Riot actually hates the jungle. We use to have anybody be a successful jungler until they nerfed that a couple seasons ago. This got rid of true jungle freedom. Then they got rid of buffs and added these "plants", which I still think is lame. Then they nerfed junglers by giving them less and less xp. This is actually super frustrating by making us try to gank lanes that are 2-3 levels ahead. Which we have to do after trying to clear 4 camps and not back to heal? You really want us to feed the top "Juggernauts" (which was a bad idea in itself to make them even stronger). Like how is this more interesting and fun when you nerf probably the most important role of the game?
demoted to iron2 votesI love to play 
, 
, and 
- but the jungle exp and gold nerfs make it so much harder play these champs. It feels like they can't scale fast enough to be relevant most of the time (with some leniency for Karthus with his ult since you get free Dark Harvest stacks). Graves is the worst case of this. Takes you around 25mins of powerfarming and picking up a few kills/assists to get 
+ 
+ 
+ 
, which is when you start to have impact on the game. With how fast-paced games are now, the outcome is usually decided by then.
Shaco can't gank at all well until level 5 when he gets his 3rd point in Q, putting him behind most meta junglers from the start of the game since they are able to be active earlier than Shaco. You're forced to farm for items to be relevant while already behind from the start.
Karthus starts to "fall off" in a way due to lack of reliable income once the camp scaling slows down/stops. Your income slows down enough that it seriously prolongs his late-game scaling, causing a sort of "fall off". Unless you have at least built up or can build up Dark Harvest stacks - usually through your ult, which has about a 3 minute cooldown - it doesn't look so great. Kind of like 
, your first ult is usually pretty important and if you fuck it up, you fall behind more often than not.
I like having different playstyles available to me while playing jungle, but it just feels like it's often more effort than it's worth to play anything besides highly-proactive junglers.
Fkn Gjdyr2 votesthe jgl exp nerfes and the current match making make me honestly think about qutteing league cause jungle is just a spam gank fiesta so that u hope to soke kills and exp in lanes and hope that ure laners snowball on their own. i see no fun in this game when i have to rely on laners too carry me all games cause im 3 lvls behind
Fkn Gjdyr2 votesact i never saw riot buffing the jgl they either nerf or change it
PaffWasTaken1 votesAs a laner main, I feel like every single changes Riot make to jungle just make junglers even more impactful on our games even if the intention was to make them less important. This escalated with time and failures to the point that a good jungler can basically fuck up the games of every single 4 enemy laners just by existing.
huhndog1 votesRiot: "We wanna decrease the jungle influence early game". Nerf jungle xp after level 3....
Like shouldnt it be the other way around lol
General Matty1 votesI wonder what hardcore shit they take over at Riot HQ before a new patch releases
Yautja wannabe1 votesWho here wants the jungle meta to return to the way it was in season 6? Those in favor say I, and those who aren't in favor say (this option has been deleted).
Edit: Okay, with two exceptions: junglers shouldn't have the ability to reach level 3 sooner than their laners, and devourer shouldn't return. Ever. But aside from that I would really like the jungle meta to return to the way it was in season 6. That was honestly the best time to be a jungler.